The US needs more immigrants, despite Trump's claim that the US is full!

[steve_bank]

And the congressional dysfunction continues as the people pile up at the border. American democracy has failed the Darwin test.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And the congressional dysfunction continues as the people pile up at the border. American democracy has failed the Darwin test.

Trumpo's solution is a wall. Brilliant. Solves everything.

 

[Trausti]

And the congressional dysfunction continues as the people pile up at the border. American democracy has failed the Darwin test.

Trumpo's solution is a wall. Brilliant. Solves everything.

Yeah. Israel built a wall. Did it work? Did it?

 

[Harry Bosch]

And the congressional dysfunction continues as the people pile up at the border. American democracy has failed the Darwin test.

Trumpo's solution is a wall. Brilliant. Solves everything.

Yeah. Israel built a wall. Did it work? Did it?

Do you honestly think that it's fine for the federal government to steal people's land? What's the difference between the federal government taking people's land to fulfill a dubious campaign promise and Venezuela stealing it's people's companies?

 

[dismal]

Saw this today:

Trump considering sending undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities

President Donald Trump announced Friday that his administration is "giving strong consideration" to releasing detained undocumented immigrants into so-called sanctuary cities — contradicting a previous statement from the White House that the policy was no longer being considered.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/12/trump-undocumented-immigrants-sanctuary-cities-1272745

The comment in the article I don't get is this one:

“The extent of this administration’s cynicism and cruelty cannot be overstated,” Pelosi spokeswoman Ashley Etienne said in a statement to the Post. “Using human beings — including little children — as pawns in their warped game to perpetuate fear and demonize immigrants is despicable.”

It seems like the logically consistent claim here would be that it's unfair that these cities would get more than their share of these super-awesome+ immigrants.

 

[SimpleDon]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/09/upshot/trump-america-full-or-emptying.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage





I would ask what the fuck is wrong with Trump, but I think most of us know what the fuck is wrong with Trump! Who is going to fill the jobs that we need to be filled if we don't start being more reasonable about immigration? Sure, we need to screen immigrants, but the vast majority of them are productive people who are just looking for a better, safer life.

Why are native birth rates low? Whether you want to admit or not, birth rates are low because of the economy. It's too difficult to raise a family on a single income today and if the mother works then who is raising the kids? Anyway, that is why birth rates are low because the economy sucks for the average US citizen.

Then you want to further erode an already bad economy by importing even more cheap labor to make sure labor rates go even lower.

You would make a great spokesperson for the globalists and 1 percenter elites southern hybrid. But your ideas are horrible for the average middle class with family values! Fortunately, Trump is smarter than that.

You are correct that the birth rate is low because of the costs of raising a child.

Also, women are delaying having children to pursue their careers. The workplace is still not very accommodating to the realities of motherhood and family life.

And yes, immigrants do work for lower wages than native workers do, but they also do the work that native workers aren't willing to do. And the primary reason that they contribute to lower wages is that so very many of them are illegal immigrants. And why do they have to work for lower wages? It is because they are here illegally. It is not because they are not good workers or that their work has less value to the economy than native workers. It is because hiring illegals increases profits and because hiring illegals carries almost no risk, so little risk that the current president of the US's businesses routinely hires illegals and his supporters presumably don't care.

And why don't businesses longer face many risks when they hire illegals? It is because of Reagan's amnesty law of 1986 that removed the obligation of employers to make sure that the workers who worked for them were legal workers if they worked for a sub-contractor. What happened is that employers would make one of the illegals a sub-contractor who paid the other workers. Trump inc didn't even use this fig leaf of an excuse for hiring illegals because the amnesty law also only required employers to accept any Social Security number offered by the workers and didn't require them to check if they were valid numbers that had not been used by other workers. Therefore a single valid SS number could have many people working at the same time.

The current H1B visa program also reduces salaries and wages, by letting low wage workers into the country legally. The H1B1 visa program widely supported by employers because it increases profits by lowering costs. There is a simple solution to this problem by issuing the visa to the workers and not to the business. Let capitalism solve the problem. If a visa holder is underpaid, they can go to work at another business that pays more. I am surprised that our ardent free-market enthusiasts in the Republican party and movement conservatism haven't embraced this simple market solution to the problem. Why is that?*

So as I said the solution for the problem of illegal immigration is to;

• dramatically increase the immigration quotas from Mexico
• fine the current illegals a $100 or so for the 3rd class misdemeanor law that they violated
• give employers a pass on the felonies that they committed if they turn themselves in
• fine them some nominal amount, say a thousand dollars a head for any illegals they hired in the past not currently working for them
• this will force them to pay the current illegals working for them more to prevent them from going to work for higher paying employers, once again letting the markets work
• allow the current illegals to stay in the country working legally until their slots in the expanded immigration quotas come up
• all of this contingent on the people involved not having committed severe crimes of course, except obviously for the employers

And of course, the way to increase wages is to raise the minimum wage and to have the federal government be more evenhanded in their support of unions to give workers a little more negotiating power in regards to their wages and working conditions.

* Rhetorical question. The Republican party and movement conservatism don't care about ideological purity. They only follow the principle of whatever produces the greatest profits to further enrich the already rich by increasing income inequality.

 

[steve_bank]

And the congressional dysfunction continues as the people pile up at the border. American democracy has failed the Darwin test.

Trumpo's solution is a wall. Brilliant. Solves everything.

Trump is right in that the border needs to be tightened. Reports are in the last month there were about 100,00 people at the border. It is an impossible situation.

There needs to be a moratorium on people allowed in at the border to make asylum claims until the border is secured and congress updates the law. Our capacity is overwhelmed at this point. Even the liberals can't ignore that at this point.

A wall or technology or a combination, whatever it takes. The border has to be under control before anything else.

 

[steve_bank]

The paradigm always was immigrants come in and work at low level jobs, kids get educated and move up.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And the congressional dysfunction continues as the people pile up at the border. American democracy has failed the Darwin test.

Trumpo's solution is a wall. Brilliant. Solves everything.

Trump is right in that the border needs to be tightened. Reports are in the last month there were about 100,00 people at the border. It is an impossible situation.

There needs to be a moratorium on people allowed in at the border to make asylum claims until the border is secured and congress updates the law. Our capacity is overwhelmed at this point. Even the liberals can't ignore that at this point.

A wall or technology or a combination, whatever it takes. The border has to be under control before anything else.

We have a whole bunch of asylum seekers, not a bunch of people sneaking across the border. Securing it will do nothing about them and there's no need to secure the border against them, either.

 

[Harry Bosch]

And the congressional dysfunction continues as the people pile up at the border. American democracy has failed the Darwin test.

Trumpo's solution is a wall. Brilliant. Solves everything.

Trump is right in that the border needs to be tightened. Reports are in the last month there were about 100,00 people at the border. It is an impossible situation.

There needs to be a moratorium on people allowed in at the border to make asylum claims until the border is secured and congress updates the law. Our capacity is overwhelmed at this point. Even the liberals can't ignore that at this point.

A wall or technology or a combination, whatever it takes. The border has to be under control before anything else.

I think that people should be suspicious of any politician making statements during normal times. But I wouldn't take anything that Trump says on any issue as gospel. No offense. But Trump is the greatest spreader of nonsense that we've ever seen. I'd like to see evidence that we are "an impossible situation". How is our capacity overwhelmed?

 

[RVonse]

As for the claim that women aren't having children due to the expense of raising them, I'm calling BS on that one. Women have a lot more choices these days then we did in the past. I chose to have only one child. One of my sisters chose to have none and the other sister chose to have two. The cost of raising them was never an issue. My ex and I lived on very low military pay after he was drafted during the Viet Nam War, but we managed. We just lived very simply.

Do you know who is having the most children these days? If not, I will tell you. It's poor women that are having the most children. I worked for many years with poor women, some had to rely on government programs to survive, including the earned income credit, SNAP and sometimes subsidized housing. My poor coworkers had anywhere from 2 to 10 children. 4 or 5 was probably the most common. I have a friend who is now 39, who has six children. She has told me that she now regrets that she had her first two children while she was in her teens, but then she had four more with her current husband. Perhaps if we did a better job of educating and providing family planning services to more poor women, they would have fewer children. But, that's for a different discussion.

If you are near the bottom near welfare then I agree with you. But if someone is solid middle to upper middle class I dont. Yes, those women are deciding not to have children and they are deciding NOT to have children because they are too damn expensive. It cost nearly a million $ to raise a child now and if you are the one footing the bill that matters.

Furthermore, there are a LOT of guys just living in their parents basement due to the economy. Those are the men who should be starting families and having their own kids.

Immigrants tend to have fewer children once they are settled here.

Yes, once mainstream corporations start their indoctrination that mindless economic consumption offers more satisfaction than raising kids.

Somebody made the claim that bringing in more immigrants would lower wages. Well, aside from that person not providing any good evidence for that, there's this thing called the minimum wage. It hasn't been raised since 2009. Raising the minimum wage would help.

Its simply supply vs demand. More labor in the pool always equals lower wage according to standard economic models. Supply vs demand is exactly what big business knows in order to drive down labor costs.

One of you said that Trump was smarter than those who would like to allow more people to come into the country. No, Trump isn't smart at all.

He is brilliant. He managed to become POTUS againat all odds and has managed to repair much damage to the middle class already. Even now, Trump has made another brilliant move telling Pelosi (et all) he will transport all the illegals straight to their sanctuary cities. Giving them exactly what they say they want except now we are watching those same do gooder's squirm and waffle about how they are going to survive the onslaught. A brilliant move on Trumps part, I would not have thought of it.

Yes, it is always nice to be compassionate and caring southernhybrid, just make sure you are doing it with YOUR own money and not everyone elses.

 

[steve_bank]

Trump is right in that the border needs to be tightened. Reports are in the last month there were about 100,00 people at the border. It is an impossible situation.

There needs to be a moratorium on people allowed in at the border to make asylum claims until the border is secured and congress updates the law. Our capacity is overwhelmed at this point. Even the liberals can't ignore that at this point.

A wall or technology or a combination, whatever it takes. The border has to be under control before anything else.

I think that people should be suspicious of any politician making statements during normal times. But I wouldn't take anything that Trump says on any issue as gospel. No offense. But Trump is the greatest spreader of nonsense that we've ever seen. I'd like to see evidence that we are "an impossible situation". How is our capacity overwhelmed?

Yes, but the rorts are across MSNBC, FOX, and CNN.

The words humanitarian crisis are now heard on MSNBC and CNN. Previously the word crisis was vigorously denounced as a Trump fabrication.

The summer also has a surge at the border which is on top of those who have been massing.

We are overwhelmed. There is no where to put and support people who cross the border.

If that is not a crisis I do not know what is. I am no fan of Trump, but he is right on trying to create resistance to the flow across Mexico.

Do you want to a dew bus loads of illegal immigrants dumped I your town with the exoectaion that your local social services, medicine, and schools will pick up the tab?

The idea of sanctuary cities is awful, rather than solve a problem it perpetuates the idea that once here odds are you will stay here.

Democrats are denouncing Trump as inhuman, yet it their lack of ability to make tough decisions on immigration is a soutce of the problem. Saying no to uncontrolled borders with seriousness will make them look bad to Latinos, or so they think.

The asylum law needs to be changed, the left is unwilling to take a hard position and change the asylum parameters. Make it clear if you cross illegally you will be put back across the border.

Do you remember when they were actually called illegal immigrants and not undocumented immigrant's? That is the left thinking there are doing the right thing.

 

[steve_bank]

Trump is right in that the border needs to be tightened. Reports are in the last month there were about 100,00 people at the border. It is an impossible situation.

There needs to be a moratorium on people allowed in at the border to make asylum claims until the border is secured and congress updates the law. Our capacity is overwhelmed at this point. Even the liberals can't ignore that at this point.

A wall or technology or a combination, whatever it takes. The border has to be under control before anything else.

We have a whole bunch of asylum seekers, not a bunch of people sneaking across the border. Securing it will do nothing about them and there's no need to secure the border against them, either.

It is part of the perception of the border that engenders large scale migration.

People are coached on how to make an asylum case. Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala have been violent for the last 50 years or more. During the Cold War we instigated some of it. We supported with military dictator's. I worked at a company that shipped systems that went on helicopters sold to the triangle governments.

We even had a demonstration outside the company in Portland Or when it got out. I was not all that publically aware at the time.