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The women's march shows it's true colors

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Trausti

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Jolly_Penguin

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https://forward.com/opinion/431550/...fies-anti-semitic-muslims-they-are-betraying/

They got rid of the well-known anti-semites and brought in another.

The original intent was good but it's been subverted.

Was that “good” original intent having Western women put on burkas and pretend to be oppressed while totally ignoring women in Muslim countries who are jailed for making a different choice?

Good point. Why do we hear so much from "feminists" about exaggerations like the gender pay gap and idiculousness like manspreading but so rarely about actual repression of women in some parts of the world?
 

Jolly_Penguin

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Yet another anti-feminist whinefest from the usual hobbyhorsemen of the ohcrapolypse. Yawn.

It’s anti-feminist to think that women should not be jailed for refusing to wear the burka. What a world.

Thing is Trausti that they are brown, so different ethical rules apply to them in the regressive mindset. I'm brown too. Why don't I get special perks here? Because I'm also asian.
 

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https://forward.com/opinion/431550/...fies-anti-semitic-muslims-they-are-betraying/

They got rid of the well-known anti-semites and brought in another.

The original intent was good but it's been subverted.

Was that “good” original intent having Western women put on burkas and pretend to be oppressed while totally ignoring women in Muslim countries who are jailed for making a different choice?

Good point. Why do we hear so much from "feminists" about exaggerations like the gender pay gap and idiculousness like manspreading but so rarely about actual repression of women in some parts of the world?

Good point? Far from it. Would you have asked the Suffragettes why you weren't hearing from them about the inability of women to vote in China?
 

Jolly_Penguin

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Good point. Why do we hear so much from "feminists" about exaggerations like the gender pay gap and idiculousness like manspreading but so rarely about actual repression of women in some parts of the world?

Good point? Far from it. Would you have asked the Suffragettes why you weren't hearing from them about the inability of women to vote in China?

Suffragettes actually were oppressed. The difference in situations wasn't that massive then as it is compared to "feminists" today complaining bout manspreading and women getting acid thrown in their faces and getting murdered for leaving the house.
 

Jason Harvestdancer

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Good point. Why do we hear so much from "feminists" about exaggerations like the gender pay gap and idiculousness like manspreading but so rarely about actual repression of women in some parts of the world?

Good point? Far from it. Would you have asked the Suffragettes why you weren't hearing from them about the inability of women to vote in China?

The suffragettes were actively campaigning for the right to vote, which they did not have, and probably believed that women everywhere should have that right. That doesn't compare to 4th wave feminists complaining about manspreading and ignoring women getting arrested for refusing to wear a burqa. It is almost as if manspreading is more oppressive than having to wear a burqa.
 

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The big problem for Feminists in the west today is that there is nothing left to legitimately have issues about. They are just a bunch of whining vagbats. Some of them don't even shave under their arms, and some have short head hair (the lesbian ones).
 

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https://forward.com/opinion/431550/...fies-anti-semitic-muslims-they-are-betraying/

They got rid of the well-known anti-semites and brought in another.

The original intent was good but it's been subverted.
Being anti-Zionist is not anti-Semitism.

Her garbage is far more than just anti-Zionism.

Seeing as the examples they hold up to make the claim she is anti-Semitic, what should be their very best evidence, are specifically anti-Zionist, I doubt that.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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... "feminists" today complaining bout manspreading and women getting acid thrown in their faces and getting murdered for leaving the house.

While you may hate that some people complain about manspreading, it's something regular guys complain about too, and it isn't any part of the Women's March mission, but being anti-violence against women is. So, yeah, they might complain about women getting acid thrown in their faces or being murdered. Violence against women is not a joke.
 

Jolly_Penguin

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... "feminists" today complaining bout manspreading and women getting acid thrown in their faces and getting murdered for leaving the house.

While you may hate that some people complain about manspreading, it's something regular guys complain about too, and it isn't any part of the Women's March mission, but being anti-violence against women is. So, yeah, they might complain about women getting acid thrown in their faces or being murdered. Violence against women is not a joke.

You dishonestly edited my quote to make it look like the opposite of what I actually wrote. Violence against anyone is no joke. Manspreading is a joke.
 

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Good point. Why do we hear so much from "feminists" about exaggerations like the gender pay gap and idiculousness like manspreading but so rarely about actual repression of women in some parts of the world?

Good point? Far from it. Would you have asked the Suffragettes why you weren't hearing from them about the inability of women to vote in China?

The suffragettes were actively campaigning for the right to vote, which they did not have, and probably believed that women everywhere should have that right. That doesn't compare to 4th wave feminists complaining about manspreading and ignoring women getting arrested for refusing to wear a burqa. It is almost as if manspreading is more oppressive than having to wear a burqa.

The difficulty I don't think you are perhaps understanding is that it is not an easy thing for women --or anyone--to argue about a rights issue in another culture/part of the world, especially when defiance of those rules can endanger women more than the offensive rule in the first place. It can seem awfully patronizing and tone deaf. Some women embrace the burka or hijab and some do not. It can be used as a tool to control women but there are aspects of being covered that are also liberating.

Personally, I don't think it's anybody's business to tell women what they can and cannot wear.
 

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... "feminists" today complaining bout manspreading and women getting acid thrown in their faces and getting murdered for leaving the house.

While you may hate that some people complain about manspreading, it's something regular guys complain about too, and it isn't any part of the Women's March mission, but being anti-violence against women is. So, yeah, they might complain about women getting acid thrown in their faces or being murdered. Violence against women is not a joke.

You dishonestly edited my quote to make it look like the opposite of what I actually wrote. Violence against anyone is no joke. Manspreading is a joke.

Violence is not a joke. Neither is manspreading. It may not be an issue for you but women must be careful in public places and public transportation. You may not do this but some men definitely 'manspread' as a way of asserting or attempting to assert dominance. One guy I used to work with used to do this in our workplace. Generally, the women laughed at him behind his back because he was such a wanker, as I believe the Brits term it. But also a nasty person who was not at all above doing much,much worse directly and indirectly. He made up a viscious lie and nearly got someone in the lab fired. For shits and giggles. He also had a habit of belittling people he thought he could get by with belittling and yes, sexually harassing. Unfortunately, the victim refused to go to management. Yes, I know it happened. I saw and heard some of it.

Obviously, not every guy who takes a wide stance---er seating position on public transport is deliberately being a dick or is consciously being aggressive but it is impossible to know unless you witness further behavior. Even if personal experience did not inform us, we should all be aware of how common it is for women to be blamed for sexual assault or to have assaults minimized.

There's really no legitimate justification for anyone on public transport to deliberately take up as much extra space as possible when space is limited and users are many. At best, it is ill mannered and inconsiderate. At worse, it's much worse. And really, there's just not a good reason not to sit with one's legs reasonably close together to make room for other passengers.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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... "feminists" today complaining bout manspreading and women getting acid thrown in their faces and getting murdered for leaving the house.

While you may hate that some people complain about manspreading, it's something regular guys complain about too, and it isn't any part of the Women's March mission, but being anti-violence against women is. So, yeah, they might complain about women getting acid thrown in their faces or being murdered. Violence against women is not a joke.

You dishonestly edited my quote to make it look like the opposite of what I actually wrote. Violence against anyone is no joke. Manspreading is a joke.

Don't blame me for your idiotic posts that are not clear. Instead respond to the substance. MEN AND WOMEN talk about man spreading and it is not part of the Women's March PLATFORM. Look at their web page, dude. A few months ago, I took a train and observed manspreading by crude dudes for the first time. I was amazed that the ticket guy let them get away with it. As far as the Women's March, their ACTUAL platform is about anti-violence to women, not MANSPREADING. Any discussion at this point about who DISHONESTLY believes what or said what by you is projection, if you do not accept facts.

Women deserve to live full and healthy lives, free of all forms of violence against our bodies. We believe in accountability and justice in cases of police brutality and ending racial profiling and targeting of communities of color. It is our moral imperative to dismantle the gender and racial inequities within the criminal justice system.
https://womensmarch.com/mission-and-principles
 

ruby sparks

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I don't see why we can't criticise feminist issues around manspreading. Such criticisms are anti-feminist, and as such are surely fully on topic. :D
 

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Violence is not a joke.

Indeed. Regardless of who it is against. Regardless of their race or gender. I hope we can agree on that.

Neither is manspreading.

In comparison it is a complete joke. And that's my point. If somebody throws acid in somebody's face because she removes her veil, that's a serious problem. If some guy feels more comfortable by not keeping his knees perfectly straight ahead.... that's hardly a problem. Accusing him of misogyny for it is more the problem there.

You may not do this but some men definitely 'manspread' as a way of asserting or attempting to assert dominance.

If you say so. Far far more of them do it because it is simply more comfortable. Think about it. They have something in between their legs. And of the ones who take up seats forcing other to stand, do you think that's a male thing? I've seen plenty of women taking a seat for their purse or coat or whatever. Its a jerk thing. Not a gender thing.

Obviously, not every guy who takes a wide stance---er seating position on public transport is deliberately being a dick or is consciously being aggressive but it is impossible to know unless you witness further behavior. Even if personal experience did not inform us, we should all be aware of how common it is for women to be blamed for sexual assault or to have assaults minimized.

So lets not presume ANYONE to be doing something bad when we have no evidence they have done anything bad. Spreading out is not sexual harrasment in and of itself. If you are so triggered that you consider it so, the problem is you and not him.

There's really no legitimate justification for anyone on public transport to deliberately take up as much extra space as possible when space is limited and users are many. At best, it is ill mannered and inconsiderate.

Sure. That goes for women as well. It isn't a gender thing. Some feminists make it a gender thing, and search for other ridiculous affronts while they ignore actual repression of women and ally themselves with backwards cultures and religion that repress women, such as when they celebrated sarsour. Nice to see them finally dumping her.
 

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I don't see why we can't criticise feminist issues around manspreading. Such criticisms are anti-feminist, and as such are surely fully on topic. :D
Don't you understand? Unless these women are ideologically pure and compatible with the views of these insightful social male analysts, their movement is no longer sanctioned by these men and therefore should be shunned for its vileness.
 

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Indeed. Regardless of who it is against. Regardless of their race or gender. I hope we can agree on that.



In comparison it is a complete joke. And that's my point. If somebody throws acid in somebody's face because she removes her veil, that's a serious problem. If some guy feels more comfortable by not keeping his knees perfectly straight ahead.... that's hardly a problem. Accusing him of misogyny for it is more the problem there.

That is not manspreading.

You may not do this but some men definitely 'manspread' as a way of asserting or attempting to assert dominance.

If you say so. Far far more of them do it because it is simply more comfortable. Think about it. They have something in between their legs. And of the ones who take up seats forcing other to stand, do you think that's a male thing? I've seen plenty of women taking a seat for their purse or coat or whatever. Its a jerk thing. Not a gender thing.
Most of us have 'something' between our legs. So what if I'm an innie and you're an outie? Except, perhaps in some cases of injury, men do not need to spread their legs so that they have almost a 180 degree spread. In cases of such injury, they should be home, with an ice pack, not displaying their genital region on public transport.

No one expects anyone to sit with their knees clenched together or their ankles crossed. But no one* is entitled to take up 3 seats by splaying one's legs so that they do. * The exception being those individual who are so large they need 3 seats or have an injured leg that they need to rest on the seats next to them.


Obviously, not every guy who takes a wide stance---er seating position on public transport is deliberately being a dick or is consciously being aggressive but it is impossible to know unless you witness further behavior. Even if personal experience did not inform us, we should all be aware of how common it is for women to be blamed for sexual assault or to have assaults minimized.

So lets not presume ANYONE to be doing something bad when we have no evidence they have done anything bad. Spreading out is not sexual harrasment in and of itself. If you are so triggered that you consider it so, the problem is you and not him.

Lots of things are not problematic in some circumstances and are very problematic in other circumstances. A 30 year old man smiling at a fellow passenger is not an issue. A 30 year old man standing or sitting quite next to his neighbor is not necessarily an issue. A 30 year old man standing right next to a 13 year old girl and staring at her chest---is a problem. At the very least, it makes her feel self conscious about herself and no one needs help with being made to feel self conscious when you are 13. A 30 year old man standing or sitting quite next to his neighbor and smiling at her purse or his wallet can indeed be threatening. And can be intended to be threatening.

There's really no legitimate justification for anyone on public transport to deliberately take up as much extra space as possible when space is limited and users are many. At best, it is ill mannered and inconsiderate.

Sure. That goes for women as well. It isn't a gender thing. Some feminists make it a gender thing, and search for other ridiculous affronts while they ignore actual repression of women and ally themselves with backwards cultures and religion that repress women, such as when they celebrated sarsour. Nice to see them finally dumping her.

Some women recognize that some men deliberately take up as much space as possible, displaying their genital region as much as the law allows as a way of being intimidating. The fact that Canadian women or European women or American women recognize this and speak out against this does not mean that they do not recognize or speak out against repression in developing nations or in some parts of our societies.

It is not necessary to advocate for everything in order to advocate for something.

It is not necessary to protest everything bad in order to protest or speak out against one particular thing.
 

zorq

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Wait, so I'm not allowed to complain about being served cold coffee anymore? I can only complain about serial killers?

No. I think I'm perfectly within my rights to complain about both big and small injustices, and so is everyone else, including feminists.
 

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https://forward.com/opinion/431550/...fies-anti-semitic-muslims-they-are-betraying/

They got rid of the well-known anti-semites and brought in another.

The original intent was good but it's been subverted.

Was that “good” original intent having Western women put on burkas and pretend to be oppressed while totally ignoring women in Muslim countries who are jailed for making a different choice?

Good point. Why do we hear so much from "feminists" about exaggerations like the gender pay gap and idiculousness like manspreading but so rarely about actual repression of women in some parts of the world?
Because you suck at listening?

Equiv. to ‘if blacks complain so much about police killings, why don’t they complain about gang and inner city violence?!’
 

Jolly_Penguin

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It is not necessary to protest everything bad in order to protest or speak out against one particular thing.

This is certainly true, but we're talking about a "women's march" that at one point championed Linda Sarsour.

And I say again, man spreading accusations are ridiculous. If I want to spread my legs out and I'm not taking a seat somebody else needs, and you don't like seeing me be comfortable, look away. Just as there's no good reason for me to stare at a woman's chest, even if she's wearing a halter top, there is no reason for you to stare at my crotch, even if I'm spreading out for comfort.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Stop talking about man spreading. It's dishonest as it has nothing to do with the women's march. You're poisoning the well.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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It is not necessary to protest everything bad in order to protest or speak out against one particular thing.

This is certainly true, but we're talking about a "women's march" that at one point championed Linda Sarsour.

And I say again, man spreading accusations are ridiculous. If I want to spread my legs out and I'm not taking a seat somebody else needs, and you don't like seeing me be comfortable, look away. Just as there's no good reason for me to stare at a woman's chest, even if she's wearing a halter top, there is no reason for you to stare at my crotch, even if I'm spreading out for comfort.

I'm a dude. The fucktards I observed manspreading were taking up more than one seat deliberately.

But I'm a man and being against those ass clowns has nothing to do with the women's march.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Her garbage is far more than just anti-Zionism.

Seeing as the examples they hold up to make the claim she is anti-Semitic, what should be their very best evidence, are specifically anti-Zionist, I doubt that.

She's making obviously false claims, though. Pretending they are anti-Zionist doesn't make them not actually anti-Semitic.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Her garbage is far more than just anti-Zionism.

Seeing as the examples they hold up to make the claim she is anti-Semitic, what should be their very best evidence, are specifically anti-Zionist, I doubt that.

She's making obviously false claims, though. Pretending they are anti-Zionist doesn't make them not actually anti-Semitic.

You've said some dumb things, too. Should that mean you can't be part of a board for men's right activism?

Come on. Really. Nobody's perfect and in this crazy, conservatives getting triggered world, do we really need purity tests for every person who makes up a committee or can some people be controversial so long as they agree with the fundamentals?
 

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I admit that all I know about subject is that this march started because Trump won and that it is a big thing.
So I read wiki on them. looks like a woman from Hawaii started it and that there are 4 co-chairs, two of them have muslim names so I skipped reading about them and went to remaining two, one has a Hispanic name and she was accused of antisemitism and links to Nation of Islam. OK, switching to the last man called Bob, weird that they would have a man but start reading. Turns out it is a woman called Bob, and she was also accused of ...... antisemitism.

Give me a fucking break. It walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
If women in this march care even a little bit about their cause they should immediately kick all of these women out. Not because they are horrible human beings but because it's simply ridiculous to have people obsessed with jews and/or Israel leading a movement which have nothing to do with it.
 
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Violence is not a joke. Neither is manspreading. It may not be an issue for you but women must be careful in public places and public transportation. You may not do this but some men definitely 'manspread' as a way of asserting or attempting to assert dominance.

...

Obviously, not every guy who takes a wide stance---er seating position on public transport is deliberately being a dick or is consciously being aggressive but it is impossible to know unless you witness further behavior. Even if personal experience did not inform us, we should all be aware of how common it is for women to be blamed for sexual assault or to have assaults minimized. .

So, what percentage of men who 'spread' on public transport are doing so for reasons of "asserting dominance"? Have you run an empirical study on the issue?

When I first read an article claiming men who manspread are doing so because they are deliberately attempting to frighten women away from public spaces, I thought such an opinion was batshit insane and relegated to professional feminists. Apparently, even ordinary feminists can believe it, too.

There's really no legitimate justification for anyone on public transport to deliberately take up as much extra space as possible when space is limited and users are many. At best, it is ill mannered and inconsiderate. At worse, it's much worse. And really, there's just not a good reason not to sit with one's legs reasonably close together to make room for other passengers.

Seating in public transport is more suited to women than to men. If seating were designed for men, you'd se less manspreading.

None of this excuses spreading your legs so that you take up more than one seat. But to imagine it's a power play by the men who do it is bonkers.
 

Jolly_Penguin

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Come on. Really. Nobody's perfect and in this crazy, conservatives getting triggered world, do we really need purity tests for every person who makes up a committee or can some people be controversial so long as they agree with the fundamentals?

Are you sure she agrees with the fundamentals?
 

Jolly_Penguin

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None of this excuses spreading your legs so that you take up more than one seat. But to imagine it's a power play by the men who do it is bonkers.

And to prioritize such trivialities over actual repression of women, and celebrating somebody like Sarsour as one of your core people is even more bonkers. It took them long enough to turf her out.
 

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Stop talking about man spreading. It's dishonest as it has nothing to do with the women's march. You're poisoning the well.

Very much so.

By comparison, there isn't, as far as I am aware, any anti-semitic controversy in the MeToo movement, but just as with criticism of the MeToo movement, criticism of The Women's March movement demonstrably comes, for some people on this forum and elsewhere, from a general opposition to such things, so any pot shot is warranted, as they see it, and bringing up pretty much irrelevant manspreading is a giveaway for this. In a nutshell, popular women's issue movements can more or less automatically trigger a negative reaction in some people. That is the underlying pattern which is present in threads such as this on this forum, over and over and over. It is no wonder they sometimes quickly go off topic. It is not as if the general posting pattern is one of support for the main aims or activities of such movements, expressed with regret about the intrusion of (in this case) controversial anti Israel/semitic/zionist politics.

But briefly, for what it's worth, and speaking as a man, one who has sufficient issues with Feminism, especially the more radical kind, to not identify as one myself, I agree with you Don that manspreadsing is annoying and commonplace. And there is a body of evidence to suggest that it is, in part, a component of a broader cultural norm involving male entitlement, gender stereotyping and how body language expresses gender power dynamics. That said, it is a relatively trivial issue by comparison with many others. And of course it is nuanced, and is not by any means always about what critics say it is about (quite likely there is exaggeration going on on the part of some). But ultimately it's surely an interesting topic, for a different thread.
 
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ruby sparks

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Seating in public transport is more suited to women than to men. If seating were designed for men, you'd se less manspreading.

Just briefly (I suggest a different thread, basically) but....

Seating in public transport (and possibly standard aeroplane cabins and possibly cinemas and theatres and so on) is arguably nowadays small, probably for reasons of maximising occupancy, so you have a point, imo.

That said, before we start to make the case that men are disadvantaged in general, the designed world is still often designed for men. 'Standard Person' in ergonomic design is a young male. There is also 'Reference Man' in medical research. This affects many things, from car seats and seat belts, to crash test dummies, CPR mannequins, dosages for radiation and medicines, the size of mobile phones and other gadgets, stab vests, health and safety at work equipment, office environments , toilet provision (ever noticed the queues outside women's toilets?), workplace temperatures (the standard levels of comfort suit men), speech recognition software and so on (google's software is apparently 70% more likely to recognise a male voice, as are the systems in some cars).

None of this excuses spreading your legs so that you take up more than one seat. But to imagine it's a power play by the men who do it is bonkers.

Obviously, to say that typically male postures and body language are necessarily about power is wide of the mark. As would saying that they are not necessarily. Some of the fuss about manspreading made by some is a bit ott in my opinion, and there are a number of reasons for it that have nothing to do with power, imo, but it is also generally the case that men do typically adopt and display 'dominance' in this aspect of social interactions between humans, and it is more acceptable for them to do so. Traditionally, women have been discouraged from doing so. To some extent, such gender stereotype norms are still persistent. Also, we're apes. It would be surprising if there were no differences of the sort that exist in many species, including our 'cousins', who also feature some general physical differences between the sexes.
 
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Seating in public transport is more suited to women than to men. If seating were designed for men, you'd se less manspreading.

Just briefly (I suggest a different thread, basically) but....

Seating in public transport (and possibly standard aeroplane cabins and possibly cinemas and theatres and so on) is arguably nowadays small, probably for reasons of maximising occupancy, so you have a point, imo.

Not 'arguably' small. It's undeniably small. The height is also more suited to women than men. And it's not just seating.

That said, before we start to make the case that men are disadvantaged in general, the designed world is still often designed for men. 'Standard Person' in ergonomic design is a young male.

Receipts.

There is also 'Reference Man' in medical research.

Receipts.

This affects many things, from car seats and seat belts, to crash test dummies, CPR mannequins, dosages for radiation and medicines, the size of mobile phones and other gadgets,

Receipts.

stab vests, health and safety at work equipment,

Receipts.

I've been in hospital before. I've seen gloves for the nurses and doctors in 'small' and 'medium', the only options, that wouldn't fit over my skeleton hand.

office environments , toilet provision (ever noticed the queues outside women's toilets?),

Women have the same or more toilet space allocated to them. Nature is to blame for their inefficient urination, not society.
workplace temperatures (the standard levels of comfort suit men),

Because office temperature is predicated on the requirement that men are required to wear a three piece suit to work to look professional, while women can wear sleeveless spaghetti strap summer dresses and still look professional.

speech recognition software and so on (google's software is apparently 70% more likely to recognise a male voice, as are the systems in some cars).

Receipts.

Obviously, to say that typically male postures and body language are necessarily about power is wide of the mark. As would saying that they are not necessarily. Some of the fuss about manspreading made by some is a bit ott in my opinion, and there are a number of reasons for it that have nothing to do with power, imo, but it is also generally the case that men do typically adopt and display 'dominance' in this aspect of social interactions between humans, and it is more acceptable for them to do so. Traditionally, women have been discouraged from doing so. To some extent, such gender stereotype norms are still persistent. Also, we're apes. It would be surprising if there were no differences of the sort that exist in many species, including our 'cousins', who also feature some general physical differences between the sexes.

Yes, humans are sexually dimorphic, though feminism since the 1960s has generally falsely denied that biology has any role to play in it. (I have personal experience of a feminist colleague claiming that men are stronger than women because male children are given more protein than female children. This is the kind of mental derangement you have to deal with when talking to a feminist.)
 

Toni

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Not 'arguably' small. It's undeniably small. The height is also more suited to women than men. And it's not just seating.

That said, before we start to make the case that men are disadvantaged in general, the designed world is still often designed for men. 'Standard Person' in ergonomic design is a young male.

Receipts.

There is also 'Reference Man' in medical research.

Receipts.

This affects many things, from car seats and seat belts, to crash test dummies, CPR mannequins, dosages for radiation and medicines, the size of mobile phones and other gadgets,

Receipts.

stab vests, health and safety at work equipment,

Receipts.

I've been in hospital before. I've seen gloves for the nurses and doctors in 'small' and 'medium', the only options, that wouldn't fit over my skeleton hand.

office environments , toilet provision (ever noticed the queues outside women's toilets?),

Women have the same or more toilet space allocated to them. Nature is to blame for their inefficient urination, not society.
workplace temperatures (the standard levels of comfort suit men),

Because office temperature is predicated on the requirement that men are required to wear a three piece suit to work to look professional, while women can wear sleeveless spaghetti strap summer dresses and still look professional.

speech recognition software and so on (google's software is apparently 70% more likely to recognise a male voice, as are the systems in some cars).

Receipts.

Obviously, to say that typically male postures and body language are necessarily about power is wide of the mark. As would saying that they are not necessarily. Some of the fuss about manspreading made by some is a bit ott in my opinion, and there are a number of reasons for it that have nothing to do with power, imo, but it is also generally the case that men do typically adopt and display 'dominance' in this aspect of social interactions between humans, and it is more acceptable for them to do so. Traditionally, women have been discouraged from doing so. To some extent, such gender stereotype norms are still persistent. Also, we're apes. It would be surprising if there were no differences of the sort that exist in many species, including our 'cousins', who also feature some general physical differences between the sexes.

Yes, humans are sexually dimorphic, though feminism since the 1960s has generally falsely denied that biology has any role to play in it. (I have personal experience of a feminist colleague claiming that men are stronger than women because male children are given more protein than female children. This is the kind of mental derangement you have to deal with when talking to a feminist.)

People must be extremely strange in Australia. Here in the US, gloves in medical settings come on a wide range of sizes from XS to XXL. The fingers of the S and XS are too long for me. Most women do not need above a M but most of the men I’ve worked with use at least a L—or think they do.

Whatever stuff you’ve heard, it is actually true in some cultures that boy children and men are fed better and more protein than girls and women.

There are gender typical behaviors but many/most individuals diverge from the stereotypes or typical in at least one behavior. The whole: girls love pink trope is marketing and cheap ass production limiting choices for girls, for example. Girls were not force fed pink when I was growing up. Nor were they allowed sports. Boys were not assumed to enjoy cooking or literature, which was weird as we rarely read any female authors or even heard about female accomplishments at school.

People of all varieties say all sorts of silly stuff. No need to take it as any more than people saying stupid stuff.
 

ruby sparks

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Not 'arguably' small. It's undeniably small. The height is also more suited to women than men. And it's not just seating.

That said, before we start to make the case that men are disadvantaged in general, the designed world is still often designed for men. 'Standard Person' in ergonomic design is a young male.

Receipts.

There is also 'Reference Man' in medical research.

Receipts.

This affects many things, from car seats and seat belts, to crash test dummies, CPR mannequins, dosages for radiation and medicines, the size of mobile phones and other gadgets,

Receipts.

stab vests, health and safety at work equipment,

Receipts.

I've been in hospital before. I've seen gloves for the nurses and doctors in 'small' and 'medium', the only options, that wouldn't fit over my skeleton hand.

office environments , toilet provision (ever noticed the queues outside women's toilets?),

Women have the same or more toilet space allocated to them. Nature is to blame for their inefficient urination, not society.
workplace temperatures (the standard levels of comfort suit men),

Because office temperature is predicated on the requirement that men are required to wear a three piece suit to work to look professional, while women can wear sleeveless spaghetti strap summer dresses and still look professional.

speech recognition software and so on (google's software is apparently 70% more likely to recognise a male voice, as are the systems in some cars).

Receipts.

Obviously, to say that typically male postures and body language are necessarily about power is wide of the mark. As would saying that they are not necessarily. Some of the fuss about manspreading made by some is a bit ott in my opinion, and there are a number of reasons for it that have nothing to do with power, imo, but it is also generally the case that men do typically adopt and display 'dominance' in this aspect of social interactions between humans, and it is more acceptable for them to do so. Traditionally, women have been discouraged from doing so. To some extent, such gender stereotype norms are still persistent. Also, we're apes. It would be surprising if there were no differences of the sort that exist in many species, including our 'cousins', who also feature some general physical differences between the sexes.

Yes, humans are sexually dimorphic, though feminism since the 1960s has generally falsely denied that biology has any role to play in it. (I have personal experience of a feminist colleague claiming that men are stronger than women because male children are given more protein than female children. This is the kind of mental derangement you have to deal with when talking to a feminist.)



I'm just going to say three things to you.

1. Do your own research. You do not appear to do any at all beyond googling for stuff to trigger you.
2. Consider adopting a more balanced take on issues generally.
3. Regarding this:

Women have the same or more toilet space allocated to them. Nature is to blame for their inefficient urination, not society.

Quite apart from the fact that you will not have checked to see if the first part is correct, the second part is beyond ridicule in any case.

I am now done on the thread derail regarding manspreading and the like. Others may wish to keep on discussing it with you.
 

Metaphor

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People must be extremely strange in Australia. Here in the US, gloves in medical settings come on a wide range of sizes from XS to XXL. The fingers of the S and XS are too long for me. Most women do not need above a M but most of the men I’ve worked with use at least a L—or think they do.

We are not strange, except inasmuch we are in the unquestioned grip of feminist delusion, like much of the West.

Whatever stuff you’ve heard, it is actually true in some cultures that boy children and men are fed better and more protein than girls and women.

I don't doubt that it could be true. What I doubt is that men's physical strength advantage over women is a result of protein differentials in childhood. That idea is so deranged, and you have to be a true believer feminist to even entertain the notion.

There are gender typical behaviors but many/most individuals diverge from the stereotypes or typical in at least one behavior. The whole: girls love pink trope is marketing and cheap ass production limiting choices for girls, for example.

Zero girls in the universe have ever been limited by "girls love pink". Zero. Here, I'll explain to you why. Girls can buy whatever they want, and they are neither forbidden by shops nor the law from buying whatever colour they want.

It's boys that have a cultural proscription from having and enjoying pink things. Do try to keep up.

Girls were not force fed pink when I was growing up. Nor were they allowed sports. Boys were not assumed to enjoy cooking or literature, which was weird as we rarely read any female authors or even heard about female accomplishments at school.

People of all varieties say all sorts of silly stuff. No need to take it as any more than people saying stupid stuff.

Feminists don't say only "silly stuff". Feminists say damaging, batshit-insane, man-hating, deranged, unscientific, unevidenced, sexist garbage in mainstream media outlets.
 

Metaphor

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I'm just going to say three things to you.

1. Do your own research. You do not appear to do any at all beyond googling for stuff to trigger you.

You are incorrect. I have not, for a number of years, specifically sought out "triggering" material. I used to routinely visit feminist websites. I no longer do this.

2. Consider adopting a more balanced take on issues generally.

I see.

Quite apart from the fact that you will not have checked to see if the first part is correct, the second part is beyond ridicule in any case.

If women were more efficient at pissing than men, they wouldn't have toilet lines going out the door. Men can hold more liquid in their bladders and it takes them less time to get rid of it. I'm sorry this offends you. I'd tell you to blame God, but she isn't taking an audience right now.
 

ZiprHead

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You are incorrect. I have not, for a number of years, specifically sought out "triggering" material. I used to routinely visit feminist websites. I no longer do this.

From looking at your profile and looking at the threads started by you, it sure looks like you seek out thing to be triggered by.
 

Toni

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We are not strange, except inasmuch we are in the unquestioned grip of feminist delusion, like much of the West.



I don't doubt that it could be true. What I doubt is that men's physical strength advantage over women is a result of protein differentials in childhood. That idea is so deranged, and you have to be a true believer feminist to even entertain the notion.

There are gender typical behaviors but many/most individuals diverge from the stereotypes or typical in at least one behavior. The whole: girls love pink trope is marketing and cheap ass production limiting choices for girls, for example.

Zero girls in the universe have ever been limited by "girls love pink". Zero. Here, I'll explain to you why. Girls can buy whatever they want, and they are neither forbidden by shops nor the law from buying whatever colour they want.

It's boys that have a cultural proscription from having and enjoying pink things. Do try to keep up.

Girls were not force fed pink when I was growing up. Nor were they allowed sports. Boys were not assumed to enjoy cooking or literature, which was weird as we rarely read any female authors or even heard about female accomplishments at school.

People of all varieties say all sorts of silly stuff. No need to take it as any more than people saying stupid stuff.

Feminists don't say only "silly stuff". Feminists say damaging, batshit-insane, man-hating, deranged, unscientific, unevidenced, sexist garbage in mainstream media outlets.

I’m currently waiting in an ER (but we are fine—no worries) so I cannot parse each misconception you have stated here. I’ll just say that are wrong on every single point you have attempted to make here. Girls cannot buy what isn’t available to them and since they are children they do not have the economic means nor agency or drivers’ licenses to make their own purchasing choices. Some parents are much more inclined to go along with stereotypes than others. My mother was. My father was not so I was allowed to play football and basketball and even to have my own basketball thanks to my father although no official games, purely recreational. My mother would have forbidden me if not overridden by my father. Marketing hard changed between my own childhood and my daughter’s. It was not easy to find clothing for her that was not pink or purple.

For the rest, you’re just not right. I’m sitting in an exam room right now and I see boxes of XL gloves. No XS. I know that they stock gloves according to the sizes required by the staff in each work area.

PA is back with some info and stuff to go over and sign.

I’m so sorry that you live in a society where women are actually asserting their rights. Must be really really difficult for you.

Yes: sarcasm.

(Side note: no worries—we’re fine.)
 

ruby sparks

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You are incorrect. I have not, for a number of years, specifically sought out "triggering" material. I used to routinely visit feminist websites. I no longer do this.

Good for you. Small steps. Keep up the good work. Did you actually do that. Seriously?


If women were more efficient at pissing than men, they wouldn't have toilet lines going out the door. Men can hold more liquid in their bladders and it takes them less time to get rid of it. I'm sorry this offends you.

Unbelievable. And completely missing the point.
 
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Jolly_Penguin

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I am now done on the thread derail regarding manspreading and the like. Others may wish to keep on discussing it with you.

It's funny how a one sentence comment can trigger such a lengthy derail and then complaints about said derail ending in the stomping of feet, lengthy personal attacks and judgments, and then more complaints about said derail.
 

Toni

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You are incorrect. I have not, for a number of years, specifically sought out "triggering" material. I used to routinely visit feminist websites. I no longer do this.

Good for you. Small steps. Keep up the good work. Did you actually do that. Seriously?


If women were more efficient at pissing than men, they wouldn't have toilet lines going out the door. Men can hold more liquid in their bladders and it takes them less time to get rid of it. I'm sorry this offends you.

Unbelievable. And completely missing the point.

Not to mention, medically and anatomically inaccurate.
 
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