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The women's march shows it's true colors

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Because women are, on average, smaller. So even if a typical man can fit in the seat, it will be more often easier for a typical woman to do so.

The same could also be said for seats on aeroplanes.

But don't women have bigger hips?

What is the difference between the hip bone of a man and a woman?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-hip-bone-of-a-man-and-a-woman

I guess I am talking about how biology could impact width of the seat. Pelvic bones, sure, but it's not just about bone size, but width at the hips of the whole person.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_shape#Physiology
 
I can tell you I am for the equal legal treatment of men and women...

I rather think the suggestion that public transport seats could be better designed to suit men but public toilets shouldn't be better designed to suit women put paid to that kind of claim.

I didn't say it and don't believe it.

Have you been collaborating with Toni on how to unashamedly put words in my mouth?

Where have you been? It's kind of Ruby's thing, along with personal judgments and advice on what you should write.
 
[And I've been hearing tales about man-hating feminists at least as long. Not only have I yet to meet one

Perhaps you fail to recognize them. You haven't met Floof from this forum? You don't recall her rants last summer about not some but all men band how horrible they are? You don't recall the "why can't we hate men" thread on this forum?

I think the term 'feminist' has been hijacked much like how the term 'social justice warrior' has been turned into a pejorative, so that nowadays the people who fight for those causes get really pissed if you call them feminists and SJWs.

I agree. I don't mind in the case of feminist since that word isn't self descriptive of women's rights advocacy for equality, but social justice warrior is self descriptive for what it should be. We do need warriors for actual social justice. I think SJW can be reclaimed as words such as crybullying, regressive and illiberal are more self descriptive for what people mean by SJW as a perjorative.

It's not that feminism or fighting for social justice has changed, it's that the terms that identify those things have been sullied.

There still exist good and virtuous movements for women's rights and for social justice. But these movements have been sullied with the "woke", virtue signalling, illiberalism, crybullying, and authoritarianism. That shouldn't have been unexpected as the virtuous movements gained ground quickly. Some were bound use and abuse them and strike out in retaliation against individuals they associate by gender with others who were and are legit problems.

No one wants to be tarred with a term that's a troll magnet

And many actually pushing to social fairness don't want to be associated with those using and abusing their cause. That explains why so few women today, who believe in and push for gender equality don't take on th feminist label.
 

I guess I am talking about how biology could impact width of the seat. Pelvic bones, sure, but it's not just about bone size, but width at the hips of the whole person.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_shape#Physiology

Is this a burning issue in your mind? Are folks walking around suffering from an inability to void?
 
Perhaps you fail to recognize them. You haven't met Floof from this forum? You don't recall her rants last summer about not some but all men band how horrible they are? You don't recall the "why can't we hate men" thread on this forum?



The movement may have started out being about gaining equality under the law for women. They won that for the most part, though there are still a few battles to be won on it. It then has been morphing into something other than a right for equality, as every opportunity to cry bully as victim is sought out, masculinity is branded toxic, laws are pushed to ensure women are paid not equal but "at least as much", MRAs and gender egalitarians are vilified, and hate screeds against men have become more common over the past few years.

The vast majority of women know this and won't call themselves feminists because of it.

Every movement has those.

Sure. That's true. Though most movements speak against their own radicals. Aside from Christina Hoff Sommers and Cassie Jaye I haven't seen much of that from self identified feminists.

But the stories told about these alleged man-haters assert they're the norm, not the outliers. So why are they so hard to find?

The actual man haters aren't the majority, but nor are the egalitarians the majority. The majority of feminists may claim to be for equality, since that sells well, but actual push for measures like the Ontario Pay Equity Act, which requires female job roles to be paid "at least as much" (not equally) as male.

I think the term 'feminist' has been hijacked much like how the term 'social justice warrior' has been turned into a pejorative, so that nowadays the people who fight for those causes get really pissed if you call them feminists and SJWs.

I agree. I don't mind in the case of feminist since that word isn't self descriptive of women's rights advocacy for equality, but social justice warrior is self descriptive for what it should be. We do need warriors for actual social justice. I think SJW can be reclaimed as words such as crybullying, regressive and illiberal are more self descriptive for what people mean by SJW as a perjorative.

It's not that feminism or fighting for social justice has changed, it's that the terms that identify those things have been sullied.

There still exist good and virtuous movements for women's rights and for social justice. But these movements have been sullied with the "woke", virtue signalling, illiberalism, crybullying, and authoritarianism. That shouldn't have been unexpected as the virtuous movements gained ground quickly. Some were bound use and abuse them and strike out in retaliation against individuals they associate with others who were the legit problems of the past due to their gender (without realizing how sexist that is).

No one wants to be tarred with a term that's a troll magnet

And many actually pushing to social fairness don't want to be associated with those using and abusing their cause. That explains why so few women today, who believe in and push for gender equality don't take on th feminist label.

I wonder why there was ever a need for fairness initiatives, can you tell us why they may have arisen at all?
 
Perhaps you fail to recognize them. You haven't met Floof from this forum? You don't recall her rants last summer about not some but all men band how horrible they are? You don't recall the "why can't we hate men" thread on this forum?



The movement may have started out being about gaining equality under the law for women. They won that for the most part, though there are still a few battles to be won on it. It then has been morphing into something other than a right for equality, as every opportunity to cry bully as victim is sought out, masculinity is branded toxic, laws are pushed to ensure women are paid not equal but "at least as much", MRAs and gender egalitarians are vilified, and hate screeds against men have become more common over the past few years.

The vast majority of women know this and won't call themselves feminists because of it.

Every movement has those.

Sure. That's true. Though most movements speak against their own radicals. Aside from Christina Hoff Sommers and Cassie Jaye I haven't seen much of that from self identified feminists.

But the stories told about these alleged man-haters assert they're the norm, not the outliers. So why are they so hard to find?

The actual man haters aren't the majority, but nor are the egalitarians the majority. The majority of feminists may claim to be for equality, since that sells well, but actual push for measures like the Ontario Pay Equity Act, which requires female job roles to be paid "at least as much" (not equally) as male.

I think the term 'feminist' has been hijacked much like how the term 'social justice warrior' has been turned into a pejorative, so that nowadays the people who fight for those causes get really pissed if you call them feminists and SJWs.

I agree. I don't mind in the case of feminist since that word isn't self descriptive of women's rights advocacy for equality, but social justice warrior is self descriptive for what it should be. We do need warriors for actual social justice. I think SJW can be reclaimed as words such as crybullying, regressive and illiberal are more self descriptive for what people mean by SJW as a perjorative.

It's not that feminism or fighting for social justice has changed, it's that the terms that identify those things have been sullied.

There still exist good and virtuous movements for women's rights and for social justice. But these movements have been sullied with the "woke", virtue signalling, illiberalism, crybullying, and authoritarianism. That shouldn't have been unexpected as the virtuous movements gained ground quickly. Some were bound use and abuse them and strike out in retaliation against individuals they associate with others who were the legit problems of the past due to their gender (without realizing how sexist that is).

No one wants to be tarred with a term that's a troll magnet

And many actually pushing to social fairness don't want to be associated with those using and abusing their cause. That explains why so few women today, who believe in and push for gender equality don't take on th feminist label.

Re: Why we can't hate men thread and article was absolutely not about hating men. Despite the intentions of many (hi, Jolly! and friends) to characterize it so.

The rest of your response is mostly just whinging.
 
She's allowed to have her own view on what is and isn't a Feminist. So am I. So are you. Our holding such definitions and applying it to see if others fit our definitions is not the same thing as us insisting that they adopt our definitions and self identify accordingly. That's illogical regarding me and it's illogical regarding Toni.

Said the person who whines incessantly if I misrepresent him. Lol. Good to know I'll never hear that complaint again after this convenient 180 degree u-turn. :)
 

I guess I am talking about how biology could impact width of the seat. Pelvic bones, sure, but it's not just about bone size, but width at the hips of the whole person.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_shape#Physiology

It's true that women's pelvises are slightly wider, but overall, including overall width and leg room....

In any case, the point is that it should be easy for all but a small percentage of men to sit on a seat without taking up any of the adjacent seat and without manspreading.
 
Where have you been? It's kind of Ruby's thing, along with personal judgments and advice on what you should write.


But that's fine now, right? :)

I'm a feminist and you're a regressive illiberal! So we're all good.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to provide the data that shows most feminists aren't egalitarian. Any update on that?
 

I guess I am talking about how biology could impact width of the seat. Pelvic bones, sure, but it's not just about bone size, but width at the hips of the whole person.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_shape#Physiology

It's true that women's pelvises are slightly wider, but overall, including overall width and leg room....

In any case, the point is that it should be easy for all but a small percentage of men to sit on a seat without taking up any of the adjacent seat and without manspreading.

Alternatively I would argue in favor of and support the practice of womanspreading in the interest of equality.
 
Where have you been? It's kind of Ruby's thing, along with personal judgments and advice on what you should write.


But that's fine now, right? :)

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to provide the data that shows most feminists aren't egalitarian.

Is "egalitarian" desirable in said poster's world view?
 
Is "egalitarian" desirable in said poster's world view?

It is. It's one of the few things that Jolly and I pretty much totally agree on, in fact. But he has more issues with feminism than me.

In fact, he's an outright, radical anti-feminist.

I believe he has just agreed that it's totally ok for me to say that.
 
Alternatively I would argue in favor of and support the practice of womanspreading in the interest of equality.

Maybe. If manspreading involves taking up someone else's space, I'm not sure two wrongs would make a right.

But as for women not necessarily conforming to or being subtly pressured to conform to traditional norms of 'bodily diminuition' (and other associated forms of verbal and non-verbal expression) when it doesn't unfairly affect anyone, yes, and thankfully it's already happening.

Although it is quite well understood that even today, a woman being 'as assertive' as a man will tend to be judged more negatively. These things linger and persist.
 
She's allowed to have her own view on what is and isn't a Feminist. So am I. So are you. Our holding such definitions and applying it to see if others fit our definitions is not the same thing as us insisting that they adopt our definitions and self identify accordingly. That's illogical regarding me and it's illogical regarding Toni.

Said the person who whines incessantly if I misrepresent him. Lol. Good to know I'll never hear that complaint again after this convenient 180 degree u-turn. :)

You do consistently misrepresent what people write and then try to tell us what they really truly think and believe. That's your schtick.

Toni sometimes does that too, but she wasn't doing that on what you quoted. She wasn't telling anyone what anyone else thinks or believes. She was defining a word as she sees it and then applying that definition. And you are an ass for making me defend Toni lol

PS - I just realized I typoed Toni to Tobin and I have now corrected that and apologize for the typo
 
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It's true that women's pelvises are slightly wider, but overall, including overall width and leg room....

In any case, the point is that it should be easy for all but a small percentage of men to sit on a seat without taking up any of the adjacent seat and without manspreading.

Alternatively I would argue in favor of and support the practice of womanspreading in the interest of equality.

Go for it.
 
You do consistently misrepresent what people write and then try to tell us what they really truly think and believe. That's your schtick.

I do it sometimes, yes. I shouldn't. It's actually hard to explain why I get so far as to feel I have to resort to it.

Tobin sometimes does that too, but she wasn't doing that on what you quoted. She wasn't telling anyone what anyone else thinks or believes. She was defining a word as she sees it and then applying that definition. And you are an ass for making me defend Toni lol

Come now. You only defended her as a roundabout way of defending yourself. If her misrepresenting others is ok, then it's okay for you. That you had to sacrifice a prior position on misrepresenting regarding me is just acceptable collateral damage. ;)
 
No one wants to be tarred with a term that's a troll magnet

And many actually pushing to social fairness don't want to be associated with those using and abusing their cause. That explains why so few women today, who believe in and push for gender equality don't take on the feminist label.

Imo and from reading around, it's both. I wouldn't care to guess at the numbers, but it does seem fairly clear that a lot of women eschew the label feminist because of the negative way the word is often viewed. And then there are also a lot who eschew the label because there are things about feminism that they just wouldn't subscribe to, even if there was no pejorative attached to the term. And there are probably many of both of those types who are deciding partially for both reasons, or other reasons.
 
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