The women's march shows it's true colors

[Toni]

You don't have to be perfect in order to contribute, and even contribute wonderfully well.

So?

I keep forgetting the female exception.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It is one thing to say that an issue is overblown by some, but quite another to dismiss the issue or not discuss the valid ways in which it is an issue.

It is an issue invented by feminists so they can attack men. I dismiss it for what it is. Move on.

And accusing feminists of only being interested in relatively 'small' issues such as this is both a cheap shot and incorrect in any case.

There are egalitarians and then there are "feminists" who wrap themselves up in such bullshit while ignoring actual repression of women. I'm quite on board with egalitarianism. I'm quite on board with fighting actual unfairness towards women. I supported the women's march (gasp; you never would have guessed that would you?). I didn't support the organizers of it pushing or validating Linda Sarsour and her rants.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You don't have to be perfect in order to contribute, and even contribute wonderfully well.

So?

I keep forgetting the female exception.

You keep forgetting to explain your "logic". And there should be no female exception.

 

[ruby sparks]

It is an issue invented by feminists so they can attack men. I dismiss it for what it is.

Rubbish. I'm a man, and not a feminist, and I notice it, I noticed it years and years ago, before I even heard the term used, and it annoys me, to an extent. Also, I recognise the component of it that has to do with traditional gender norms and male entitlements. And I'm not alone in saying that. That totally disproves your point there.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It is an issue invented by feminists so they can attack men. I dismiss it for what it is.

Rubbish. I'm a man, and I notice it, and it annoys me. Also, I recognise the component of it that has to do with gender stereotyping and male entitlement.

Yeah. Rubbish is right. It annoys me too when people declare somebody acting like a jerk to be representative of their entire gender or race. And you didn't answer my question. Do you associate other people acting bad with their gender or race, other than white males? Or do you recognize that as bigotry?

 

[Rhea]

[But you keep repeating bullshit in order to assert that women have no agency and to paint us all with the brush you think is insulting and in order to minimize and poison the entire effort.

I don't believe women have no agency. I believe the exact opposite. I hold women equally responsible for their actions and to the same standards that I hold men. I won't treat them differently just because they are women. Some so called feminists here refuse to do that.

And yet you repeatedly claim that “the organizers” represent us and the women’s march, trying to boil down the entire movement to the past of one woman no matter how many times you are reminded that we each had our own agency for being there.

What’s up with that?

You’re just spouting petulant bullshit hoping to bully.

It is adorable that you call me the bully while you foam at the mouth with explatives and agression and demand I be silent.

Jolly, I don’t demand you be silent, i demand that you not misrepresent women and repeat falsehoods about the women’s march. But if the only alternative that you see to telling the truth is silence, then I leave you to do that however you choose.

Moreover, I am not foaming at the mouth with aggression, I am dripping with disdain for untruth.

Finally, you have never been banned (you’re still here) and discussing moderation outside of private feedback forum is against the TOU. Are you trying to GET banned so you can rage about it?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And yet you repeatedly claim that “the organizers” represent us and the women’s march

They represent the organization. I never said they represent you or anyone else.

But if the only alternative that you see to telling the truth is silence, then I leave you to do that however you choose.

I tell the truth. And I type what I please. I won't bow to the directives of you or any other bully.

Finally, you have never been banned (you’re still here)

I have been, temporarily, and never been told for how long each time, and always for writing something others have written and gotten away with unscathed. Why do you bring this up in response to a post where I didn't mention moderation?

and discussing moderation outside of private feedback forum is against the TOU. Are you trying to GET banned so you can rage about it?

You are discussing moderation outside of private feedback forum. Do you want to get banned along with me? Or is this yet another double standard?

 

[ruby sparks]

DP

 

[ruby sparks]

It is an issue invented by feminists so they can attack men. I dismiss it for what it is.

Rubbish. I'm a man, and I notice it, and it annoys me. Also, I recognise the component of it that has to do with gender stereotyping and male entitlement.

Yeah. Rubbish is right. It annoys me too when people declare somebody acting like a jerk to be representative of their entire gender or race. And you didn't answer my question. Do you associate other people acting bad with their gender or race, other than white males? Or do you recognize that as bigotry?

We've done this 'is something bigotry' thing to death and I have never bought your schtick. One convenient upshot of your views is to discourage valid issues being raised or taken seriously.

Or to put it another way, no, it is not bigotry to see spreading yourself out and encroaching on someone else's space as a valid issue and agree that it is mostly a male behaviour and at least in part, sometimes associated with traditional gender norms and male entitlements.

Also, you are routinely factually incorrect. Manspreading is not a thing invented by feminists to attack men. Some feminists may use it that way, yes, but that does not disqualify the views of everyone else who also sees it.

"Many people are irked by the act of manspreading, but the only people who’ve taken it seriously enough to become angry are those skittish few who think this is part of some war on men."

Jonathan Goldsbie (written in January 2015, just when the word was starting to be used).

 

[laughing dog]

You don't have to be perfect in order to contribute, and even contribute wonderfully well.

So?

I keep forgetting the female exception.

When Toni brought thst up she used the Founding Fathers. Which means this female exception is yet another straw man of yours.

 

[ZiprHead]

and discussing moderation outside of private feedback forum is against the TOU. Are you trying to GET banned so you can rage about it?

You are discussing moderation outside of private feedback forum. Do you want to get banned along with me? Or is this yet another double standard?

Rhea is a moderator. In thread moderator warnings are part of the job.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

We've done this 'is something bigotry' thing to death and I have never bought your schtick.

So you continue to evade the question. Ok.

Or to put it another way, no, it is not bigotry to see spreading yourself out and encroaching on someone else's space as a valid issue

Nobody said otherwise. But no, it isn't a male issue. It is a jerk issue. To gender it is no better than gendering or racializing other poor behaviour by people and associating that with their gender or race.

Also, you are routinely factually incorrect. Manspreading is not a thing invented by feminists to attack men.

Yes it is. Before that it was called just a jerk taking up too much space with their legs, purse, bag, coat, or whatever else.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I keep forgetting the female exception.

When Toni brought thst up she used the Founding Fathers. Which means this female exception is yet another straw man of yours.

Um, its she that brought up "female exeption". I don't even know what she thinks that means. She hasn't explained her logic other than to blurt this out.

 

[ruby sparks]

So you continue to evade the question. Ok.

Wrong.

 

[ruby sparks]

To gender it is no better than gendering or racializing other poor behaviour by people and associating that with their gender or race.

It's already associated with one gender, and pretty much always has been, since ancient history. What happened was that some flagged it up. And a bunch of triggered snowflakes are angry. Because the western world is in the grip of feminist delusions. Which is not an exaggeration, or paranoia, or insecurity. Really it's not.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

So you continue to evade the question. Ok.

Nope.

Uh ya. You didn't answer the question. I don't think you would look at a black guy doing something negative and call it "black [insert name of negative action]". I think you'd recognize that as problematic. Why you won't acknowledge that, I don't know.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It's already associated with one gender, and pretty much always has been.

Maybe in your head. Not in reality. Do you not think that women ever take up space with their bags, coats and purses, not making space for men to sit down? Do you think men do this oh so much more often than women do? Have you ever ridden on a bus?

Even if men did do this considerably more often than women, do you think it appropriate to label the action with their gender? Should we do that with other behaviours engaged in more by other genders or races?

 

[ruby sparks]

So you continue to evade the question. Ok.

Nope.

Uh ya. You didn't answer the question. I don't think you would look at a black guy doing something negative and call it "black [insert name of negative action]". I think you'd recognize that as problematic. Why you won't acknowledge that, I don't know.

I answered the question.

 

[Toni]

I keep forgetting the female exception.

When Toni brought thst up she used the Founding Fathers. Which means this female exception is yet another straw man of yours.

Um, its she that brought up "female exeption". I don't even know what she thinks that means. She hasn't explained her logic other than to blurt this out.

I'm sorry that you are having difficulty following the conversation.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I answered the question.

You evaded it. 'Nuff said.