There are No Conscientious Explanations to Disprove the Proof for God and Jesus Being God

[revivin]

I just wanted to let you know why I am a Christian. I'll try to keep it short. In Jan. 2001 without getting into details, I realized miraculously all things sum up in Christ. Effectively I was acknowledging that Jesus was my full satisfaction, that He is God, that I was a sinner, sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell, and I was forgiven by accepting He died on the cross for the sins of the world and received eternal life by His resurrected the 3rd day. The reason I believe Christianity is proven true is because I have never been able to find anyone who could provide a reasonable and conscientiously plausible naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings seeing Jesus alive from the dead, even touching, talking to, walking with and even eating with.

After I got saved I realized God was proven because that which does not exist can't cause anything; that is, non-existence can bring anything into existence since nothingness does not exist. And there can't be an infinite regress of cause and effects, because if there was you would have had an eternity to come into being before now so you that you are now should have already happened. And self-contradictorily you should never have existed if this alleged past eternity were true because it would go on for eternity never reaching this point.

I am not sure how to get you to believe what I do because it was miracle for me how I changed from believing one thing then instantly believing Jesus was Lord, Savior and Creator. All I can say is the change took place in the deepest part of me, even deeper, in my spirit's intuition, communion and conscience and not in the soulical rough sensational area of mind, will and emotion. I did search God out with all my heart and soul and that's why I found Him, so the only reason someone is not saved is because they don't search God out with all their heart and soul.

 

[No Robots]

From the man whom Goethe described as the ultimate Christian (Christianissimus):

[A]ll the Apostles thoroughly believed, that Christ rose from the dead and really ascended to heaven: I do not deny it. Abraham, too, believed that God had dined with him, and all the Israelites believed that God descended, surrounded with fire, from heaven to Mount Sinai, and there spoke directly with them; whereas, these apparitions or revelations, and many others like them, were adapted to the understanding and opinions of those men, to whom God wished thereby to reveal His will. I therefore conclude, that the resurrection of Christ from the dead was in reality spiritual, and that to the faithful alone, according to their understanding, it was revealed that Christ was endowed with eternity, and had risen from the dead (using dead in the sense in which Christ said, "let the dead bury their dead" 1), giving by His life and death a matchless example of holiness. Moreover, He to this extent raises his disciples from the dead, in so far as they follow the example of His own life and death. It would not be difficult to explain the whole Gospel doctrine on this hypothesis. Nay, 1 Cor. ch. xv. cannot be explained on any other, nor can Paul's arguments be understood: if we follow the common interpretation, they appear weak and can easily be refuted: not to mention the fact, that Christians interpret spiritually all those doctrines which the Jews accepted literally.--Spinoza​

 

[Keith&Co.]

I just wanted to let you know why I am a Christian. I'll try to keep it short. In Jan. 2001 without getting into details, I realized miraculously all things sum up in Christ. Effectively I was acknowledging that Jesus was my full satisfaction, that He is God, that I was a sinner, sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell, and I was forgiven by accepting He died on the cross for the sins of the world and received eternal life by His resurrected the 3rd day. The reason I believe Christianity is proven true is because I have never been able to find anyone who could provide a reasonable and conscientiously plausible naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings seeing Jesus alive from the dead, even touching, talking to, walking with and even eating with.

Well, yeah.
I mean, if it's written in a gospel of unknown authorship, created at an unknown date for unknown purposes, that's the same as an eyewitness testimony in any reasonable court. Sure.
Good for you.

After I got saved I realized God was proven because that which does not exist can't cause anything; that is, non-existence can bring anything into existence

I think you mean 'non-existence can NOT bring anything into existence?'
And how would you go about establishing this as a fact?
What sort of experiment could you run to see if anything comes out of nothing?
And, you do realize that science doesn't do 'proof,' right?

since nothingness does not exist.

And has nothingness EVER existed?
How would you know?

And there can't be an infinite regress of cause and effects, because if there was you would have had an eternity to come into being before now so you that you are now should have already happened.

Explain that a little better, please?
If there's only a small possibility of me existing, how would an infinite regress mean i could not exist today

And self-contradictorily you should never have existed if this alleged past eternity were true because it would go on for eternity never reaching this point.

This sounds like familiar bullshit.
Have you posted on this forum before?

I am not sure how to get you to believe what I do because it was miracle for me how I changed from believing one thing then instantly believing Jesus was Lord, Savior and Creator.

You have a rather generous definition of the term 'miracle,' don't you?

All I can say is the change took place in the deepest part of me, even deeper, in my spirit's intuition, communion and conscience and not in the soulical rough sensational area of mind, will and emotion.

You can demonstrate that you have a spirit?

I did search God out with all my heart and soul and that's why I found Him, so the only reason someone is not saved is because they don't search God out with all their heart and soul.

WOW!
You convinced yourself god exists, then you managed to convince yourself you found god and that god's forgiven you for breaking laws god established??
That IS a miracle.

Let's go back to your evidence that you have a spirit. Please demonstrate that.

- - - Updated - - -

From the man whom Goethe described as the ultimate Christian (Christianissimus):

Any comments on why this Spinoza quote belongs in this thread as a response to teh OP, NR?
Or just another hit and run quote?

 

[revivin]

these apparitions or revelations

Resurrection historically has always been physical. The Sadducees always believed in a physical resurrection. The Apostles are currently asleep in soul sleep, the good side of Hades (Sheol) awaiting resurrection at the end of this age. "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (1 Thess. 4.14-18). Jesus has not returned yet so this has not happened yet.

 

[No Robots]

Any comments on why this Spinoza quote belongs in this thread as a response to teh OP, NR?
Or just another hit and run quote?

The original poster said that he had "never been able to find anyone who could provide a reasonable and conscientiously plausible naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings seeing Jesus alive from the dead, even touching, talking to, walking with and even eating with." I have filled this gap in the poster's education.

 

[revivin]

written in a gospel of unknown authorship

Try the Minimal Facts Approach which almost all scholars who do peer review journal or accredited work on the resurrection do agree on some things. One of those things they are certain of is that Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 and was genuine. He recounts the gospel, resurrection, some eyewitness accounts and said he spent 15 days with Peter, and also time with John the disciple whom Jesus loved most and the brother of Jesus who also saw Jesus resurrected and converted to become the Elder of the church of Jerusalem. Paul said they Apostles added nothing unto him sharing the same message. Paul was converted 2 years after the cross and spent time with these Apostles at most 3 years after his conversion. So it goes all the way back to the cross that the Apostles truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings, salvation was only through Jesus, only God can resurrect Himself, and the churches were set up on their eyewitness testimony of the resurrected Jesus. What better proof could you ask for? I can think of none.

 

[No Robots]

Resurrection historically has always been physical.

Well, as we see, it was not physical for Spinoza.

The Sadducees always believed in a physical resurrection.

You mean to say Pharisees here. A small slip.

 

[Brian63]

I like apples.

Brian

 

[Sheshbazzar]

written in a gospel of unknown authorship

Try the Minimal Facts Approach which almost all scholars who do peer review journal or accredited work on the resurrection do agree on some things. One of those things they are certain of is that Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 and was genuine. He recounts the gospel, resurrection, some eyewitness accounts and said he spent 15 days with Peter, and also time with John the disciple whom Jesus loved most and the brother of Jesus who also saw Jesus resurrected and converted to become the Elder of the church of Jerusalem. Paul said they Apostles added nothing unto him sharing the same message. Paul was converted 2 years after the cross and spent time with these Apostles at most 3 years after his conversion. So it goes all the way back to the cross that the Apostles truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings, salvation was only through Jesus, only God can resurrect Himself, and the churches were set up on their eyewitness testimony of the resurrected Jesus. What better proof could you ask for? I can think of none.

I agree your 'facts' are very minimal.
Just because a literary composition of unprovenanced origins with extraordinary claims exists, is no evidence at all that the characters or situations described are other than highly imaginative religious fiction/ cult propaganda.
'Paul' by his own admissions never met or set eyes upon any flesh and blood living 'Jesus'. He claims to have communicated with the ghost of a living dead zombie. Not all that impressive credentials as a 'eye witness'.
I wouldn't trust the words or 'witnessing' of this lying fabricator any further than I could throw his likely to be fictional carcass.

 

[none]

...
I did search God out with all my heart and soul and that's why I found Him, so the only reason someone is not saved is because they don't search God out with all their heart and soul.

so what if my imaginary friend believes in God, does that mean I have to believe in God too? does it mean that God believes in my imaginary friend because my imaginary friend believes in God?

 

[jonJ]

I did search God out with all my heart and soul and that's why I found Him, so the only reason someone is not saved is because they don't search God out with all their heart and soul.

I studied hard and got a post-graduate degree, so the only reason you don't have a post-graduate degree is that you haven't studied hard. Right?

 

[revivin]

Just because a literary composition of unprovenanced origins with extraordinary claims exists.

The events of the Apostles and Jesus are the most corroborated events in antiquity holding to the highest of standards. Scholars are virtually universal in identify Paul as the author of 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2.

"Every document apparently ancient coming from the proper repository or custody and bearing on its face no evident marks of forgery, the law presumes to be genuine and devolves on the opposing party the burden of proving it to be otherwise."

"This ancient document, the Scripture, has come from the proper repository, that is, it is has been in the hands of the persons of the Church for 2000 years almost and it bears on its face no evident marks of forgery, and therefore the law presumes it to be genuine, and those who would presume otherwise upon them devolves the responsibility of proving it to be false. We don't have to prove it to be true. They have to prove it to be false. That's what the law says."

(Simon Greenleaf, The Testimony of the Evangelists: The Gospels Examined for the Rules of Evidence)

"It was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."

(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29.)

Atheists don't care for evidence. Atheists are not big on that thing called evidence, and not fond of practitioners of evidence in the Courts of Justice.

 

[revivin]

When I think of extraordinary claims I think of infinite regress as totally extraordinary because how can there be an infinite regress of cause and effects since that would mean you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened.

Or the extraordinary idea that something can come from non-existence. Imagine a square circle as being nothing. How could it cause something if it doesn't exist? What an extraordinary claim to claim a square circle exists when it violates all know laws of science.

What an extraordinary claim to say there is some unknown unexamined naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles even though all angles and options have been exhaustively covered.

Surely the burden is on the atheist because he or she makes such extraordinary and unfounded claims. Pray on this as I pray for your understanding. May you no longer shirk the truth and accept the Lord Jesus as Savior otherwise you surely will go to Hell. I warn you about this because I don't want you to go to Hell. I would prefer that you receive God's love, mercy and saving grace by His precious blood for forgiveness of sins and resurrection to give eternal life. I would not want anyone to have to go to eternal perdition unless absolutely necessary. It is absolutely necessary atheist burn in the Lake of Fire for all eternity.

 

[none]

...
I did search God out with all my heart and soul and that's why I found Him, so the only reason someone is not saved is because they don't search God out with all their heart and soul.

so what if my imaginary friend believes in God, does that mean I have to believe in God too? does it mean that God believes in my imaginary friend because my imaginary friend believes in God?

I was hoping for an answer to this revivin...

 

[dystopian]

The events of the Apostles and Jesus are the most corroborated events in antiquity holding to the highest of standards.

 

[revivin]

Hell is necessary for you because jail is necessary for those who need to be locked up for life. As it is on earth so it is in heaven and hell.

It's sad that you are too self-engrossed to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. It's also pathetic.

 

[dystopian]

Hell is necessary for you because jail is necessary for those who need to be locked up for life. As it is on earth so it is in heaven and hell.

It's sad that you are too self-engrossed to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. It's also pathetic.

For future reference, telling people they're evil and need to be locked up for eternity (not sure what I did to be locked up for ANY period of time, but let's just ignore that), then telling them it's pathetic that they're too self-engrossed to believe what you believe...

...is not a good way to convert anyone.

It is however, a great way to convince them that you're psychotic.

 

[DBT]

What is this thing called ''God'' - this thing you are supposed to look for in order to find?

 

[George S]

I just wanted to let you know why I am a Christian. I'll try to keep it short. In Jan. 2001 without getting into details, I realized miraculously all things sum up in Christ.

I'll keep it short. Sometime in the last 70 years, without getting into details, I not so miraculously realized that all thing sum up this way.

 

[George S]

If Reality is infinite it contains everything including God*. God*, being limitless, is everywhere. So thou and I have God* in us. God* is identical to reality in size and shape. The reality of being is the one miracle. That there is something, for now, instead of nothing as it was before thou and I wert aware.

A present of the present moment was given to thou and I by reality.

Now, my friend, go thou into the world and be the best example of how good a Christian -- or anyone else for that matter -- can be. Make others' well being as important to thee as thine own.




_________
*only real gods, but all real gods.