These Birds of Prey Are Deliberately Setting Forests on Fire

[Potoooooooo]

https://blog.nature.org/science/201...ehawk-raptors-intentionally-spread-wildfires/
Using fire is one of the defining features of modern humans, listed right alongside toolmaking and art in the anthropology textbooks. But it looks like humans aren’t the only species that deliberately manipulates fire to its benefit.

At least three Australian raptor species intentionally spread wildfires by carrying smoldering branches to unburnt areas, according to a new paper that confirms long-held traditional Aboriginal knowledge.

 

[Keith&Co.]

https://blog.nature.org/science/201...ehawk-raptors-intentionally-spread-wildfires/
Using fire is one of the defining features of modern humans, listed right alongside toolmaking and art in the anthropology textbooks. But it looks like humans aren’t the only species that deliberately manipulates fire to its benefit.

At least three Australian raptor species intentionally spread wildfires by carrying smoldering branches to unburnt areas, according to a new paper that confirms long-held traditional Aboriginal knowledge.

How did i know this was gonna be Australia...

 

[DBT]

Where but the Land Down Under.

 

[BH]

This is absolutely amazing.

 

[DBT]

It implies some degree of awareness of cause and effect, take these steps and that will happen, and forward thinking. There is fire in that spot, move some of that fire to another location and increase the chances of a successful hunt.

 

[ZiprHead]

Imagine what would happen if they were given Zippos.

 

[WAB]

Imagine what would happen if they were given Zippos.

No worries. No thumbs.

 

[Elixir]

Where but the Land Down Under.

... where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, and most of it can.

 

[Gun Nut]

It implies some degree of awareness of cause and effect, take these steps and that will happen, and forward thinking. There is fire in that spot, move some of that fire to another location and increase the chances of a successful hunt.

but does it, though? Just because the action by the bird causes a positive outcome for the bird may not mean the bird is planning, or even remotely aware of the causality. There may be no "plan" here... in fact, the article suggests it may be the case that the (extremely rare event of) picking up of a burning branch is an accident.. a case of misidentification.. wanted prey.. got stick.. drop stick.

I often struggle with this notion as it pertains to my pets. Are they being cute or funny because they know they are.. or is it a random accident? Is my cat emotionally attached to me, or is my lap just the warmest spot in the house at the moment?

How can we really ever know?

 

[fromderinside]

Oh I dunno. Cat stares while you signal various invites for him to come up to your lap. Then a long pause and jump to your lap. After about three bouts of this drill cat begins to just jump up on your lap without wait and see. Explain that behavior outside of law of association.

 

[Gun Nut]

Oh I dunno. Cat stares while you signal various invites for him to come up to your lap. Then a long pause and jump to your lap. After about three bouts of this drill cat begins to just jump up on your lap without wait and see. Explain that behavior outside of law of association.

I have not observed the behavior you describe... I've known a lot of cats... a whole lot... and not one of them is as predictible as "pat your lap and it always jumps right up". It will still stare at you like it has no idea what a lap is. It will still just get up on its hind legs and look at your hand patting it and then look at you like it never seen you before... yes, sometimes it just jumps up.. sometimes without an invitation. It's totally random, and driven mostly by their personality, not by anything that can remotely be called 'training'.

An Exercise in Confirmation Bias.

My parents are crazy cat people. My father, especially, has some odd ideas about cats.. what they "think" or "feel"...
One day, visiting them, they tried to convince me that they taught the cat to sit.. like by voice command.. like a dog.
It was hysterical watching them tell the cat over and over again, "sit.. siiiiit... sit down... siiiit" Like 10,000 tries and 2 successes.. and that is all they needed to declare it the smartest cat in the world that is so well trained.

 

[skepticalbip]

^ ^

Cats and people... My observations are that some people are more amenable to being trained by cats than others. Cats are fairly good at training some people to feed them and clean their litter boxes.

 

[Keith&Co.]

^ ^

Cats and people... My observations are that some people are more amenable to being trained by cats than others. Cats are fairly good at training some people to feed them and clean their litter boxes.

I read somewhere that cats do not 'meow' to other cats. It's their attempt to make people sounds. Probably why they look at us so expectantly when we meow back. 'Yeah! And? What the.... You repeated it back perfectly, then you go feed the fucking dog??!!'

 

[DBT]

It implies some degree of awareness of cause and effect, take these steps and that will happen, and forward thinking. There is fire in that spot, move some of that fire to another location and increase the chances of a successful hunt.

but does it, though? Just because the action by the bird causes a positive outcome for the bird may not mean the bird is planning, or even remotely aware of the causality. There may be no "plan" here... in fact, the article suggests it may be the case that the (extremely rare event of) picking up of a burning branch is an accident.. a case of misidentification.. wanted prey.. got stick.. drop stick.

I often struggle with this notion as it pertains to my pets. Are they being cute or funny because they know they are.. or is it a random accident? Is my cat emotionally attached to me, or is my lap just the warmest spot in the house at the moment?

How can we really ever know?

Whatever is going on in their brains, they have to recognize the object - fire in this instance - and its relationship to easier hunting and more food, at some point learning that spreading fire prolongs and increases that advantage. Even if that isn't consciously thought out and planned, it is a learnt behaviour.

 

[Lion IRC]

"Eyewitnesses reported..."
If that's good enough for the Journal of Ethnobiology then it's good enough for me.
#evidence

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I appreciate these birds. With the 10,000 different kids of poisonous animals in Australia, these guys found a way to be deadly and scary in a freaky way which fits well into the continent, but also avoided being a generic part of the crowd by coming up with a different and unique method of going about it.

Well done, them.

 

[DBT]

"Eyewitnesses reported..."
If that's good enough for the Journal of Ethnobiology then it's good enough for me.
#evidence

Depends.

 

[Gun Nut]

"Eyewitnesses reported..."
If that's good enough for the Journal of Ethnobiology then it's good enough for me.
#evidence

real people that can be asked to clarify what we think they said they thought they saw... who's location with respect to the events in question can be confirmed... and even with that, its the worse evidence we can possibly have about something... but having a living witness is still better than nothing.

 

[skepticalbip]

"Eyewitnesses reported..."
If that's good enough for the Journal of Ethnobiology then it's good enough for me.
#evidence

real people that can be asked to clarify what we think they said they thought they saw... who's location with respect to the events in question can be confirmed... and even with that, its the worse evidence we can possibly have about something... but having a living witness is still better than nothing.

But then there is also photographs...



I also have autographed photos of Jesus that I am selling.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

While anthropomorphizing is a thing, I think people more often make the opposite error. I think many animals are capable of thinking much better than we often give them credit for.