This week in the strange death of America: Professor removed for using Mandarin word that sounds like a slur in English

[J842P]

So I sat down and watched the video. And I'll admit, his point makes more sense in context.

He's still an idiot though, and deserves what will no doubt be a brief walk of shame, before getting quietly re-hired at this or some other school.

No, he isn't an idiot, and no he doesn't deserve a walk of shame. The students acted shamefully, if anything, but the fact that you believe he deserves a "walk of shame" is frightening.

 

[Politesse]

So I sat down and watched the video. And I'll admit, his point makes more sense in context.

He's still an idiot though, and deserves what will no doubt be a brief walk of shame, before getting quietly re-hired at this or some other school.

No, he isn't an idiot, and no he doesn't deserve a walk of shame. The students acted shamefully, if anything, but the fact that you believe he deserves a "walk of shame" is frightening.

Frightening? I'm not saying he deserves his walk of shame as a punishment for racism, just as the natural and inevitable outcome of saying stupid stuff in the classroom. So it has always been, so it will always be. Only the issues change.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I certainly wouldn't make a "joke" like that in front of my students. He obviously knew that what he was saying would come across as a white guy "getting away with" using the n-word due to a supposedly humorous context (an experience Black students have to put up with constantly) because his whole story does not make sense unless you are aware of the homophone and why it would cause a problem.

Alternately, he was making a point--that just because something sounds offensive in English doesn't mean it's offensive in it's own language. Just because you hear profanities or the like in a foreign language doesn't mean they're saying anything wrong. Don't make assumptions!

 

[Toni]

No, as I listened to the video, I heard it sounding nearly identical to/identical to (depending on regional accent) the racial slur.

So what? It is completely appropriate in this context to use it as an example of a filler word. This requires no reaction, certainly not removal, and people of sound mind wouldn't react the way these students reacted, grown adults actually, probably at least 22 years old. This is embarrassing.

As other posters have pointed out, there are plenty of examples he could have used that would not have sounded like an offensive racial slur.

This is not an unusual situation: a commonly used word or term in one language is a homophone to a word that is offensive in another language. He's surely run into that situation and in fact, might even address that in his lectures.

 

[J842P]

So I sat down and watched the video. And I'll admit, his point makes more sense in context.

He's still an idiot though, and deserves what will no doubt be a brief walk of shame, before getting quietly re-hired at this or some other school.

No, he isn't an idiot, and no he doesn't deserve a walk of shame. The students acted shamefully, if anything, but the fact that you believe he deserves a "walk of shame" is frightening.

Frightening? I'm not saying he deserves his walk of shame as a punishment for racism, just as the natural and inevitable outcome of saying stupid stuff in the classroom. So it has always been, so it will always be. Only the issues change.

Because he did nothing stupid. This isn't some inevitable outcome.

 

[J842P]

No, as I listened to the video, I heard it sounding nearly identical to/identical to (depending on regional accent) the racial slur.

So what? It is completely appropriate in this context to use it as an example of a filler word. This requires no reaction, certainly not removal, and people of sound mind wouldn't react the way these students reacted, grown adults actually, probably at least 22 years old. This is embarrassing.

As other posters have pointed out, there are plenty of examples he could have used that would not have sounded like an offensive racial slur.

This is not an unusual situation: a commonly used word or term in one language is a homophone to a word that is offensive in another language. He's surely run into that situation and in fact, might even address that in his lectures.

So what? Are you claiming that minority students cannot participate in a discussion that might involve a homophone of another word which, in a completely different context, is a slur?

Are you the sort of person that wouldn't say the word "speak" around me? Seriously?

 

[Metaphor]

No, as I listened to the video, I heard it sounding nearly identical to/identical to (depending on regional accent) the racial slur.

So what? It is completely appropriate in this context to use it as an example of a filler word. This requires no reaction, certainly not removal, and people of sound mind wouldn't react the way these students reacted, grown adults actually, probably at least 22 years old. This is embarrassing.

As other posters have pointed out, there are plenty of examples he could have used that would not have sounded like an offensive racial slur.

This is not an unusual situation: a commonly used word or term in one language is a homophone to a word that is offensive in another language. He's surely run into that situation and in fact, might even address that in his lectures.

He gave the same example for five years without a word from his class.

 

[Metaphor]

So I sat down and watched the video. And I'll admit, his point makes more sense in context.

He's still an idiot though, and deserves what will no doubt be a brief walk of shame, before getting quietly re-hired at this or some other school.

No, he isn't an idiot, and no he doesn't deserve a walk of shame. The students acted shamefully, if anything, but the fact that you believe he deserves a "walk of shame" is frightening.

Frightening? I'm not saying he deserves his walk of shame as a punishment for racism, just as the natural and inevitable outcome of saying stupid stuff in the classroom. So it has always been, so it will always be. Only the issues change.

He didn't say anything stupid.

 

[Metaphor]

So I sat down and watched the video. And I'll admit, his point makes more sense in context.

He's still an idiot though, and deserves what will no doubt be a brief walk of shame, before getting quietly re-hired at this or some other school.

He is not an idiot, and it frightens me that men like you are in positions of power.

 

[Jarhyn]

I work at a majority Chinese company. You know what I hear regularly? "Nà ge... Nà ge... Nà ge..."

I asked a coworker, and Nà is roughly to "thing (non-specific), and Ge in context constitutes a "to be" verb. So, "the thing is". Spoken by a native mandarins speaker it sounds like "n*gga, n*gga, n*gga".

It IS very disconcerting to hear someone rapid-fire the n-word even if it's a common pause phrase in mandarin. It came up for me insofar as if we had any black people working there, it would probably require some discussion as to its use, meaning and implication.

Without context or in situations where context is unclear or the usage not commonly known, it's absolutely acceptable to react negatively to this easily confused part of speech.

Bully on you OP. Just like you have a responsibility to not flash the OK sign in an Arab country, a speaker of Mandarin has a responsibility not to say (the thing is) in a country that used a similar utterance as a pejorative for chattel slaves of african descent.

 

[Metaphor]

Because it was not a reference.

So you don't feel the point of the example is that "Neige" can sound kind of like "N*gger"? What is the point then? Why warn them that homophones can cause problems in cross-cultural communication, then follow that up with an anecdote that isn't about homophones causing problems in cross-cultural communication?

He didn't warn them about anything. He was talking about filler words, and he used examples from two languages of filler words.

 

[Politesse]

He is not an idiot...

And yet, he's getting fired for an easily avoidable goof. Proof's in the pudding, imo.

 

[Metaphor]

He is not an idiot...

And yet, he's getting fired for an easily avoidable goof. Proof's in the pudding, imo.

It frightens me that you and men like you hold positions of power.

 

[laughing dog]

He is not an idiot...

And yet, he's getting fired for an easily avoidable goof. Proof's in the pudding, imo.

Professor Patton was not fired - just replaced in a class. He was recently promoted to full professor in 2010 which suggests he is tenured.

 

[Politesse]

He is not an idiot...

And yet, he's getting fired for an easily avoidable goof. Proof's in the pudding, imo.

Professor Patton was not fired - just replaced in a class. He was recently promoted to full professor in 2010 which suggests he is tenured.

Ah. Even less consequence then. What is Metaphor even going on about?

 

[Toni]

As other posters have pointed out, there are plenty of examples he could have used that would not have sounded like an offensive racial slur.

This is not an unusual situation: a commonly used word or term in one language is a homophone to a word that is offensive in another language. He's surely run into that situation and in fact, might even address that in his lectures.

So what? Are you claiming that minority students cannot participate in a discussion that might involve a homophone of another word which, in a completely different context, is a slur?

Are you the sort of person that wouldn't say the word "speak" around me? Seriously?

I'm the sort of person who would be offended at someone using a word that sounded like a racial slur deliberately when another example would serve just as well.

I'm also the sort of person who scratches my head at why people think that it's ok to use words that sound like racial slurs if they are not the ones offended.

 

[Jarhyn]

As other posters have pointed out, there are plenty of examples he could have used that would not have sounded like an offensive racial slur.

This is not an unusual situation: a commonly used word or term in one language is a homophone to a word that is offensive in another language. He's surely run into that situation and in fact, might even address that in his lectures.

So what? Are you claiming that minority students cannot participate in a discussion that might involve a homophone of another word which, in a completely different context, is a slur?

Are you the sort of person that wouldn't say the word "speak" around me? Seriously?

I'm the sort of person who would be offended at someone using a word that sounded like a racial slur deliberately when another example would serve just as well.

I'm also the sort of person who scratches my head at why people think that it's ok to use words that sound like racial slurs if they are not the ones offended.

So, for clarity here, I work in a majority Chinese workplace. I hear a lot of Mandarin spoken daily. I hear a common pause phrase daily, repeatedly, that when I started picking it out, I couldn't unhear it being said.

This phrase is like the Chinese "um". Try not to say "um" or whatever your version of pause phrase is. Do you expect someone else not to say it?

That said, maybe you have a responsibility to know that and explain and then apologise when you do it, especially if anybody brings that up. Imagine if in a country you find yourself "um" is a slur to disparage women who look relatively similar to you.

If we had a black person working at my shop, there would probably be issues over that. But I'm not about to tell my boss to stop saying "the thing is" in his native tongue.

I have direct exposure to the issue. Perhaps it's not the phrase that was uttered to inspire the OP; I know the phrase I hear means "the thing is", from the fact I asked a coworker, and consulted on the translation. Was the phrase "Nà ge"? I bet it was. Because it's the only phrase I know commonly uttered in Mandarin that comes out close to "N-r"

 

[Metaphor]

I have direct exposure to the issue. Perhaps it's not the phrase that was uttered to inspire the OP; I know the phrase I hear means "the thing is", from the fact I asked a coworker, and consulted on the translation. Was the phrase "Nà ge"? I bet it was. Because it's the only phrase I know commonly uttered in Mandarin that comes out close to "N-r"

The phrase is in the OP. You'd know that if you'd read it.

 

[Metaphor]

Professor Patton was not fired - just replaced in a class. He was recently promoted to full professor in 2010 which suggests he is tenured.

Ah. Even less consequence then. What is Metaphor even going on about?

Excuse me. I did not say he was fired.

If you'd bothered to read the story, which you evidently have not, you'd see his students said sent a grievance letter with multiple lies to his bosses, he was suspended from giving the class and replaced, and the dean sent a mass email excoriating Patton.

Can you please read the story before you respond again. Your fill-in-the-gaps assumptions tell me a lot about you but they are not useful for actual good faith dialogue.

 

[Metaphor]

As other posters have pointed out, there are plenty of examples he could have used that would not have sounded like an offensive racial slur.

This is not an unusual situation: a commonly used word or term in one language is a homophone to a word that is offensive in another language. He's surely run into that situation and in fact, might even address that in his lectures.

So what? Are you claiming that minority students cannot participate in a discussion that might involve a homophone of another word which, in a completely different context, is a slur?

Are you the sort of person that wouldn't say the word "speak" around me? Seriously?

I'm the sort of person who would be offended at someone using a word that sounded like a racial slur deliberately when another example would serve just as well.

I'm also the sort of person who scratches my head at why people think that it's ok to use words that sound like racial slurs if they are not the ones offended.

The irony is incredible.

The professor was specifically illustrating the use of filler words, and was discouraging their use whatever the language.

The professor was literally telling people to reduce their use of filler phrases, and for Mandarin speakers this means to reduce their use of the filler phrase that sounds like the word 'nigger' in English (not because it sounds like a slur but because filler phrases make you sound unprofessional and unsure of yourself). And yet you are complaining about it!