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Those Terrorists in Nevada

maxparrish said:
Finally, my heart is warmed not because I believe him to be intellectually or morally in the right, but because anytime a few Americans stand up to their government destroying their lives on behalf of desert turtles, solar plants, or Harry Reid I think it a small but important statement; not everyone is a bovine to the worshiped leviathan.
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Paying the fees would destroy their lives?
 
Duke Leto said:
If I were running the show, this is what I'd do.

Carefully announce sometime in 2015 that Bundy will be arrested by federal agents in X days sometime in Nevada's dry season. Then I would make sure that there's a similar gang of idiots organized to protect them.

Then the night before the arrest I send in the Nevada National Guard and an Army Division with the Army Corps of Engineers and a shitload of barbed wire, and blockade the roads and erect a line of circumvallation around Bundy's little bunch of retards. Then I cut electricity and water and wait after announcing via radio that all children under 18 and any persons willing to lay down arms may leave the without fear of prosecution, licensed legal weapons will be returned to them after they return home.

Then you maintain the siege that Bundy has asked for but does not, in fact, want indefinitely. I make sure there are news cameras as each idiot realizes he's fucked and walks out humiliated.

If the "Patriots" are lucky enough to get a freak rainstorm before they die of thirst then they'll starve like rats. They may want to be Spartans at Thermopylae, give them a bit of Sphacteria.
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If they resorted to cannibalism, would that be Flesh-Eating Sphacteria? :D
 
blastula said:
Paying the fees would destroy their lives?
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Not just their lives, but America.

This one rancher has to pay a couple extra bucks for grazing? Whole damned 200 plus year experiment in democracy is over.


Hadn't you heard?
 
You act as if he has no land to graze his cattle. He does. This guy/family has a very successful enterprise that is not going to be diminished by him PAYING WHAT HE EFFING OWES. He's nothing more than a thief. No moral standing at all.

Oh and your 'Solar Farm'? No where NEAR THE SITE. It's just a right wing red herring.
 
maxparrish said:
Sympathy does not require one to find his moral or intellectual stance legitimate, it only requires one to have pathos, an understanding and feeling for the distress or need of another. It is not difficult, it is simply viewing it from the perspective of those in distress. You don't need empathy (to share that state of emotion) you only need that little grain of humanity and concern for the well being and of another.
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My head just exploded.

Mind you, someone who makes the same claim upon food stamps might be just as sympathetic - although it might be a bit more challenging to sympathize with a family that has lived for generations off of food stamps without any productive labor or significant taxes to 'the commonweal'. It also might be a bit more trying when they don't pay anything at all for free food, paid out of pocket by the commonweal, with the assumption that they have a right to be loafers and sponges. On the other hand, there are many cases were I would have sympathy, even if morally and legally they are were in error.
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Whew, it's back together again.
 
Does anyone think that any of those teabaggers would be alive today if they were African-Americans?
 
So, he's refusing to leave public land because he wants free stuff from the government.

Sounds like an OWS protestor.
 
Dammit, dammit, dammit...i was too late...
dismal said:
So, he's refusing to leave public land because he wants free stuff from the government.

Sounds like an OWS protestor.
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I was about to mention that the OWS people had no more right to turn public parks into free indefinite campgrounds...

Another minor point is that the land in question receives very little rain. This kind of land shouldn't even be used for over 1,000lb grazing animals. The rogue rancher lost this battle years ago. His cattle should have been forcibly removed years ago. I have no more sympathy for this fool, than I do when I read about my lazy, uneducated, and redneck nephews on FaceBook whining about how they are being hurt by lazy welfare people, illegal immigrants, et.al.
 
maxparrish said:
You are, no doubt, reliant on either the partisan left media and/or the msm liberal press for your information - that would explain your misunderstandings and mischaracterization of the standoff and related issues.

Last week hundreds of armed federal agents and contract cowboys descended on the BLM property. They came well armed in SUV's and helicopters, some of them reputed to be snipers. Public protestors and militia members also arrived, the first (and only) violence starting when the government tased Ammon Bundy, a member of the Bundy family. Federal officials pulled back out of fear of escalating tensions. (No doubt Ruby Ridge and Waco has taught some of them something).

The federal government has been a part of a campaign to drive out ownership in-holdings, lease holders, and permit holders in the West for many decades. It has done so under many pretexts - some valid, many not. As 80 percent of the State of Nevada is owned by the federal government, like many Western states, there has been a great deal of state citizen resentment of their economic lives being controlled by Washington DC.

Supposedly the reason that the BLM is taking action against Bundy is on behalf of the desert tortoise which is on the endangered species list. In 1993 they reduced his allotment to 150 cattle 'for the tortoise', in retaliation Bundy refused to pay his fees, in 1994 they revoked his permit and closed off the Gold Butte area to grazing. (All other ranchers in the area are now gone, their permits being bought back by the feds).

In 2012 an environmentalist group sued the BLM for not removing Bundy's cattle. In 2013 the BLM announced a plan to euthanize hundreds of tortoises in its Vegas refuge area due to budget shortfalls (developer tortise mitigation fees, once 300,000 a year has plummeted).

There is some speculation that Reid and his son Rory were deeply involved, as they were in a deal with a Chinese-owned ENN Energy Group to build a 5 billion dollar solar farm in Laughlin Nevada. And the new head of the BLM was a senior policy adviser to Reid, who left Reid's office in 2011. The Senate voted 71 to 28 to confirm Kornze as the new director in 2013.

Bundy does not have a legal leg to stand-on BUT, one should have sympathy for his situation. And the fact that he stood down the federal leviathan's attempt to take his livelihood...well, that warms the heart.
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I wonder what the world must look like when looking out at it from a mind operating on such fluid moral principles.
 
Good. Parasites suckling off the government teat need to get their benefits slashed. Lazy, pinko fucker can go try raising cattle in Russia if he doesn't like it.
 
funinspace said:
Dammit, dammit, dammit...i was too late...

I was about to mention that the OWS people had no more right to turn public parks into free indefinite campgrounds...

Another minor point is that the land in question receives very little rain. This kind of land shouldn't even be used for over 1,000lb grazing animals. The rogue rancher lost this battle years ago. His cattle should have been forcibly removed years ago. I have no more sympathy for this fool, than I do when I read about my lazy, uneducated, and redneck nephews on FaceBook whining about how they are being hurt by lazy welfare people, illegal immigrants, et.al.
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Except Zuccotti Park is PRIVATELY OWNED.
 
Ford said:
I'd post a link to the You Tube video my right wing friend posted to his Facebook page, but that would make your head explode due to the stupid. Instead, here's the short version:

Rancher dude had no problem paying a nominal fee to have his cattle graze on federal land around his ranch. Feds raised the fees (something to do with an endangered turtle species) and rancher dude suddenly found religion on "states rights" and stopped paying fees.

Back when Bill Clinton was President, if I'm not mistaken.

The case has been winding its way through the courts for a very long time - with rancher dude on the losing end of it - when the Bureau of Land Management basically said "fuck this guy" and started confiscating his cattle that were illegally grazing on federal land.

Right wing freaks out, and militia members - fresh off a long unproductive stint on the southern border hoping to shoot some Mexicans - show up with the hope of shooting some federal agents.


Hilarity ensues.
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Actually I heard his beef (no pun intended) began when Reagan, by executive order no less, reinstated and raised the rates. I think they said it was $1.30 per head of cattle. Cannot verify this at the moment though.
 
It will be good for U.S. and China relations to have solar equipment in the desert. When they are not busy collecting solar power, they can take in the sites of Las Vegas or Reno. Party on.
 
aeebee50 said:
It will be good for U.S. and China relations to have solar equipment in the desert. When they are not busy collecting solar power, they can take in the sites of Las Vegas or Reno. Party on.
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So are the Feds planning to demolish some cities to sell the land to the Chinese, or did you perhaps mean to say they could take in the sights?
 
maxparrish said:
Better yet, perhaps BLM armed agents and helicopters ought to be at the borders rounding up illegals on federal land, rather than cows in Nevada.
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Now there's a hoot. Just after Jeb Bush, loyal Republican, said those coming across the border to take work left undone by regular 'mericans an act of love while everybody agrees Bundy is a cheat.
 
bilby said:
Surely you don't think that it is a sign of moral character to steal one's livelihood from the common weal, and to defend your theft by force of arms?

Let's look at an analogy:

John Doe has a deal (handed down from his grandfather, who originally obtained it) with the US Treasury, whereby he purchases gold bullion from them, and he is permitted to enter Fort Knox to collect the purchased gold. He is allowed to buy up to 300 oz. per annum, in 1 oz lots; but then the Treasury Dept. decide that his use of the facility is causing distress to the cat that lives in the vaults, and so they notify him (in accordance with his original agreement with them) that he is now only permitted to buy 150 oz. per annum, to reduce the number of times their pet is disturbed.

John Doe is enraged by this, and refuses to comply; he continues to turn up at Fort Knox and take 300 oz. per annum of gold, but no longer pays for it.

Oddly enough, the Treasury Dept. do not like someone simply taking stuff from their vaults; they instruct the guards to stop John Doe from taking any more gold out of Fort Knox. Now John Doe shows up heavily armed, and with a bunch of armed associates, intent on continuing to remove bullion from 'their' vault.

Is turning up at a bank, heavily armed, and with intent to steal from it, a heart warming example of standing up to the federal leviathan; or is it a felony, for which the perpetrators should pay with their liberty?

Why is the answer different when instead of a bank, the target is a piece of grazing land?

Why do you support this person's desire to continue to take what does not belong to him? Is it because he and his family have been taking for generations? If so, would you similarly support people demanding food stamps from the government on the sole basis that their family has been dependant on them for generations? Would you find it heart-warming if a person who was denied food stamps used armed force to persuade the government to continue providing those food stamps? If not, why not?
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One small error in your analogy... He doesn't just keep taking 300 oz of gold without paying for it. He starts taking 600 oz of gold without paying for it.

That's what the special snowflake did in Nevada... He was originally allowed 500 head of cattle, but after he stopped paying for the grazing rights, he also increased the number of cattle he was grazing.

This jack-ass is a thief plain and simple, and the right wing nuts defending him are stupid or hypocrites.
 
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