Thoughts on the Inane Political Reaction to San Bernardino

[KeepTalking]

But decency... is it too much to ask for common decency...to show more warmth than a political slogan?

Make no mistake about it, conservative politicians offering their thoughts and prayers (and nothing else) is a political statement. It is exactly what their religious base wants (and does not want) to hear. The fact that you are tone deaf to it at best, if not embracing it, speaks volumes (not that your over-the-top rhetoric is otherwise lacking in that regard).

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So far I haven't heard the usual, "Not all Muslims are like that!!" from the millions of Captain Obvious wannabes out there. I find that a bit refreshing.

Guess what?

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

 

[thebeave]

Make no mistake about it, conservative politicians offering their thoughts and prayers (and nothing else) is a political statement. It is exactly what their religious base wants (and does not want) to hear. The fact that you are tone deaf to it at best, if not embracing it, speaks volumes (not that your over-the-top rhetoric is otherwise lacking in that regard).

- - - Updated - - -

So far I haven't heard the usual, "Not all Muslims are like that!!" from the millions of Captain Obvious wannabes out there. I find that a bit refreshing.

Guess what?

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

Of course not. We would be having multiple shootings like that every day of the year. Saying "Not all Muslims are not like that" is about like pointing out "The sky is blue".

 

[KeepTalking]

Make no mistake about it, conservative politicians offering their thoughts and prayers (and nothing else) is a political statement. It is exactly what their religious base wants (and does not want) to hear. The fact that you are tone deaf to it at best, if not embracing it, speaks volumes (not that your over-the-top rhetoric is otherwise lacking in that regard).

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Guess what?

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

Of course not. We would be having multiple shootings like that every day of the year. Saying "Not all Muslims are not like that" is about like pointing out "The sky is blue".

Guess what?

The sky is blue.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Make no mistake about it, conservative politicians offering their thoughts and prayers (and nothing else) is a political statement. It is exactly what their religious base wants (and does not want) to hear. The fact that you are tone deaf to it at best, if not embracing it, speaks volumes (not that your over-the-top rhetoric is otherwise lacking in that regard).

- - - Updated - - -



Guess what?

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

Of course not. We would be having multiple shootings like that every day of the year. Saying "Not all Muslims are not like that" is about like pointing out "The sky is blue".

Interesting metaphor, because you don't seem to care about it in reality because any cloud could be a tornado inside, therefore fuck the Syrians.

 

[maxparrish]

Make no mistake about it, conservative politicians offering their thoughts and prayers (and nothing else) is a political statement. It is exactly what their religious base wants (and does not want) to hear. The fact that you are tone deaf to it at best, if not embracing it, speaks volumes (not that your over-the-top rhetoric is otherwise lacking in that regard).

None have said that politicians offering their thoughts and prayers are unaware of political consequences, nor that such offerings are always sincere. Rather, what I (and a few others) have said is that the manner in which a political person of stature chooses to react tells us much about their character, or lack of it.

When Obama or others chooses to express their sympathies to the surviving victims, the sympathies held by the overwhelming majority, we assume that they are sincere. But even if they are not, at least we see that the person respects the social boundaries given to mourning and grief. Regardless of motivation, at least they have the grace to do the right thing.

So yes, I embrace mourning and grief as the most important first reaction of a national leadership class. On the other hand, what do you embrace? The politicized and vulgarness behind the so-called mourning in a Paul Wellstone or Westboro Baptist Church like event?

Your choice.

 

[repoman]

Hmm, Well it would have to be a situation where Obama would offer his thoughts and prayers while at the same time opposing progress or even making the problem worse.

He may actually do that, but not in this case in the opinion of gun control folks.

In the opinion of some he should be telling every gun owner to carry their guns where legal. So him offering thoughts and prayers would deserve a NY Post headline with the same words as the NY Daily News one.

 

[Nexus]

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

But enough of them are to be a problem.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

But enough of them are to be a problem.

How much of a problem? Are they more or less of a problem than Christians in the US?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

But enough of them are to be a problem.

Really? 14 people are murdered and that is enough evidence to reject refugees from a nation that these people didn't come from (the guy was born in the US). 14 people and we are ready to give it all up, enact more policies that'll likely be counterproductive and make shit worse?

We could lock up the borders and ISIS can still creep in over the Internet. How much of my freedom are you willing to barter so you can feel safer?

 

[funinspace]

Before The Cat in The Hat...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

How much of my freedom are you willing to barter so you can feel safer?

On behalf of the Canadian people, we are willing to barter the freedom to listen to Justin Beiber and Celine Dion. It's a difficult sacrifice, but hard times call for hard measures and we're willing to do our part.

 

[arkirk]

How long is long enough to wait before one starts in on one's inane political reactions? For example, I didn't notice you spare much time.

1) I am not speaking of the fulminations of those on this board between posters. I am speaking of political leadership and their public opinion classes of America who presume to speak for the public.
2) There is never a time where inane reactions by leaders and this class are warranted.
3) None the less, I waited longer than Hillary Clinton and other Democrats before expressing my insightful views on SB.

Finally, your old trick of changing the subject to a personal attack on a poster won't do. Your ad hom insults of "what has happened to you Max" and "are you feeling well" sniping is tiresome - enough so that if you wish me to respond to you in the future you're going to have to start behaving a bit less cranky and a whole lot more civil.

Come on Max! Get off that NRA horse and down with us common people. You have to admit this pair had quite an arsenal. (more than 6100 of one type of round for their assault rifles and over 2000 rounds for their handguns. This shooting in terms of NRA ammo sales kickbacks just on the this couple represent a tidy bundle of cash for the NRA to use pushing for the rights of others to do as this couple did. We obviously for whatever reason have a poor understanding of how to cope with the NRA. I think you need to calm down. I think the ammo needs to be regulated and under no condition should there be any kickback to NRA who lobbied and kept it legal for this couple to arm for this attack. The NRA money is in effect blood money and they use it to create conditions where they get more blood money.

I am not a Hillary Clinton fan, but I am certainly not an NRA fan either. I think BATF should tax the ammo the same amount the NRA has been receiving in kickbacks on ammo sales and the law should forbid ammo makers or sellers from kickback arrangements with the NRA. Additionaly, the NRA should not both lobby and advertise ammo. The NRA lobby has been described as the most powerful lobby in Washington. Seeing how easy it was for this couple to get armed indicates the NRA did its job a bit too well. We need these guys OUT OF WASHINGTON.

 

[arkirk]

How much of my freedom are you willing to barter so you can feel safer?

On behalf of the Canadian people, we are willing to barter the freedom to listen to Justin Beiber and Celine Dion. It's a difficult sacrifice, but hard times call for hard measures and we're willing to do our part.

I have already made that "sacrifice" and I don't even live in Canada.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The recent mass shooting in Paris disproves your strawman here. Since massive gun control didn't prevent the Paris shootings...

Gun control isn't supposed to PREVENT mass shootings. It's supposed to make mass shootings a rare, uncommon event that can only be carried out by a gang of highly organized criminals who would have to take some extraordinary means to obtain their weapons, as opposed to a scattershot distribution of deranged maniacs who can get guns from just about anywhere.

It doesn't make the Paris Massacre impossible. It makes it very very RARE.

No--it has no effect on things like Paris--they could get arms from elsewhere.

It prevents things like the Planned Parenthood shooting.

The thing is the actual number of people killed in such incidents is very low--far below the number saved in self defense shootings.

Gun control will have little effect on the criminal use of guns--if they can smuggle in drugs they can smuggle in guns. It also will do little about the third of a billion guns already around.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think Barbara Boxer is confused. Boxer says gun laws in California work

California's more stringent laws don't appear to have proven they reduce shootings. I hope they don't pass national laws that "reduce" shootings in my state to the level of her state. We don't need that level of added violence here.

Next year the legislature here will probably introduce a bill to go back to constitutional carry; like Kansas recently passed. Then you'd only need a concealed carry permit if you wanted reciprocity with another state.

And note the San Bernardino shooting seems to have involved guns that aren't California-legal. Gun laws do basically nothing about smuggling in guns.

 

[arkirk]

I think Barbara Boxer is confused. Boxer says gun laws in California work

California's more stringent laws don't appear to have proven they reduce shootings. I hope they don't pass national laws that "reduce" shootings in my state to the level of her state. We don't need that level of added violence here.

Next year the legislature here will probably introduce a bill to go back to constitutional carry; like Kansas recently passed. Then you'd only need a concealed carry permit if you wanted reciprocity with another state.

And note the San Bernardino shooting seems to have involved guns that aren't California-legal. Gun laws do basically nothing about smuggling in guns.

The last word I heard was that they were all legally procured. That just came over the news. I saw some pictures of the guns. There was no word if they were fully automatic or not...and that would make a difference if they were legal. Considering their ammo supply it would almost seem they would be.. I have always favored a different approach to gun control. Apply law only to what you can easily control. For the rest...stop all this shit about the American Heritage being all about guns. Even if it were true, that is not what people should be living for...to shoot guns..give me a break. Guns do not do much good in this world. That is so obvious, yet all the pretty Hollywood celebrities in their movies glamorizing glocks ...it becomes a kind of sickness and had gotten the gun a kind of cult worship of which it is not worthy. I think the answer is a public awareness program against gun dangers...just like tobacco and booze. There is a reason the agency that deals with these things has lumped them together...for all too many people these things are killers.

Part of the reason we don't have a good public awareness program is because the NRA claims to be doing that and it very strongly just advocates everybody needs a gun. It has coopted a function the government should be performing then turned the entire field into one big advertising push for more guns and ammo.

 

[KeepTalking]

Make no mistake about it, conservative politicians offering their thoughts and prayers (and nothing else) is a political statement. It is exactly what their religious base wants (and does not want) to hear. The fact that you are tone deaf to it at best, if not embracing it, speaks volumes (not that your over-the-top rhetoric is otherwise lacking in that regard).

None have said that politicians offering their thoughts and prayers are unaware of political consequences, nor that such offerings are always sincere.

Well, I am glad you agree that politicians who do this and nothing else are just as bad as the politicians you decried in your OP.

Rather, what I (and a few others) have said is that the manner in which a political person of stature chooses to react tells us much about their character, or lack of it.

And those who offer only their thoughts and prayers show their character, which is immediately pandering to their base in the face of tragedy, and then doing nothing else about it.

When Obama or others chooses to express their sympathies to the surviving victims, the sympathies held by the overwhelming majority, we assume that they are sincere. But even if they are not, at least we see that the person respects the social boundaries given to mourning and grief. Regardless of motivation, at least they have the grace to do the right thing.

If they are going to do nothing but offer their thoughts and prayers, then no, they are not doing the right thing.

So yes, I embrace mourning and grief as the most important first reaction of a national leadership class.

Mourning and grief as a first step, sure, that is all well and good. Doing that while fully intending to take no additional steps, however, is where the problem lies.

On the other hand, what do you embrace? The politicized and vulgarness behind the so-called mourning in a Paul Wellstone or Westboro Baptist Church like event?

Your choice.

I will take false dichotomies for $1,000, Alex.

 

[KeepTalking]

Not all Muslims are like that. Not even close to all.

But enough of them are to be a problem.

Even one is a problem.

That said, the same goes for Christians, Jews, and anyone of any other faith, or even anyone who lacks faith, who is like that.

Keeping refugees out of your country is not going to solve that problem. Especially when those refugees are fleeing from the very same problem in their own country.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Gun control isn't supposed to PREVENT mass shootings. It's supposed to make mass shootings a rare, uncommon event that can only be carried out by a gang of highly organized criminals who would have to take some extraordinary means to obtain their weapons, as opposed to a scattershot distribution of deranged maniacs who can get guns from just about anywhere.

It doesn't make the Paris Massacre impossible. It makes it very very RARE.

No--it has no effect on things like Paris--they could get arms from elsewhere.

It prevents things like the Planned Parenthood shooting.

The thing is the actual number of people killed in such incidents is very low--far below the number saved in self defense shootings.

How many lives were saved via semi-automatic weapons?

Gun control will have little effect on the criminal use of guns--if they can smuggle in drugs they can smuggle in guns. It also will do little about the third of a billion guns already around.

Who needs to smuggle the guns? They are already here!

 

[arkirk]

But enough of them are to be a problem.

Even one is a problem.

That said, the same goes for Christians, Jews, and anyone of any other faith, or even anyone who lacks faith, who is like that.

Keeping refugees out of your country is not going to solve that problem. Especially when those refugees are fleeing from the very same problem in their own country.

It was clear regardless of the religion of these people that their mindset was that life is hopeless and dying is better than living with their feelings of hopelessness. They knew they were committing suicide. That kind of hopelessness does not require a religion to inspire people to do terrible things...like what happened here. I feel these people had gone off the deep end and their act was simply not one of a functional human being.

It seems like Max was taking offense at Hillary for cranking out some gun control language he didn't like. Be careful Max that you don't become hopeless and find yourself armed to the teeth with a nice soft eminently blame-able target nearby. Perhaps it would be best if you would take your weapons to one of these police gun buy backs now before Hillary makes you feel even more hopeless with her inanity.