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Tort Law Run Amok - $750,000 for a shoplifter

 
 
 
The link didn't work. How much physical injury to a shoplifter should be permitted?
 
Bronzeage said:
The link didn't work.
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That's because I accidentally pasted the title for URL. Fixed now.
How much physical injury to a shoplifter should be permitted?
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I do not think the extent of injury should matter. Had he had a heart attack during the confrontation, should the store be on the hook for "wrongful death"?
The perp sustained injuries while the LPOs tried to restrain him until the police arrived. He resisted and was unlucky in that him falling down caused significant injuries. But without his resisting and without him shoplifting he would not have sustained any injuries.
Now had the LPOs sought to inflict deliberate injury that would be separate assault and battery. But criminals should not get to sue for injuries sustained during the crime itself. I mean, given US tort law Home Alone 2 should have been a courtroom drama where Harry and Marv sue the McAllisters for millions. Homeless Alone is the third installment where they are all, well, homeless having lost their house to the burglars ...
 
Derec said:
That's because I accidentally pasted the title for URL. Fixed now.
How much physical injury to a shoplifter should be permitted?
Click to expand...
I do not think the extent of injury should matter. Had he had a heart attack during the confrontation, should the store be on the hook for "wrongful death"?
The perp sustained injuries while the LPOs tried to restrain him until the police arrived. He resisted and was unlucky in that him falling down caused significant injuries. But without his resisting and without him shoplifting he would not have sustained any injuries.
Now had the LPOs sought to inflict deliberate injury that would be separate assault and battery. But criminals should not get to sue for injuries sustained during the crime itself. I mean, given US tort law Home Alone 2 should have been a courtroom drama where Harry and Marv sue the McAllisters for millions. Homeless Alone is the third installment where they are all, well, homeless having lost their house to the burglars ...
Click to expand...

Where in the law does a person have the right to assault a person they suspect of a crime?
 
Derec said:
That's because I accidentally pasted the title for URL. Fixed now.
How much physical injury to a shoplifter should be permitted?
Click to expand...
I do not think the extent of injury should matter. Had he had a heart attack during the confrontation, should the store be on the hook for "wrongful death"?
The perp sustained injuries while the LPOs tried to restrain him until the police arrived. He resisted and was unlucky in that him falling down caused significant injuries. But without his resisting and without him shoplifting he would not have sustained any injuries.
Now had the LPOs sought to inflict deliberate injury that would be separate assault and battery. But criminals should not get to sue for injuries sustained during the crime itself. I mean, given US tort law Home Alone 2 should have been a courtroom drama where Harry and Marv sue the McAllisters for millions. Homeless Alone is the third installment where they are all, well, homeless having lost their house to the burglars ...
Click to expand...

Ok so there's brain damage and lots of bills. Who should pay the medical expenses? What if there is permanent disability?
 
Wasn't there a case where employees confronted a criminal, crime in progress, and the store they worked for fired them?
The main reason was that the employees are not hired to actually take people into custody. They're not trained for it and the store isn't insured for it.
The employees shouldn't be doing more than identifying the culprit to police. Then the police may choose horrible overreaction to a $30 shoplifting spree, the store's out of it.
 
I own a retail business and it is my firm policy that employs do not try to interfere with anyone who has criminal intentions. When we have staff meetings, I say, "We have never had a cash drawer with enough money to be worth getting hurt. If business improves to that point, we will tell them the policy has changed."
 
Bronzeage said:
I own a retail business and it is my firm policy that employs do not try to interfere with anyone who has criminal intentions. When we have staff meetings, I say, "We have never had a cash drawer with enough money to be worth getting hurt. If business improves to that point, we will tell them the policy has changed."
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What's the address of your store?:diablotin:

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Toni said:
Ok so there's brain damage and lots of bills. Who should pay the medical expenses? What if there is permanent disability?
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I do not see why the victim of his crime should have to pay.

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Bronzeage said:
Where in the law does a person have the right to assault a person they suspect of a crime?
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Detaining a criminal !=assault
 
Keith&Co. said:
Derec said:
Detaining a criminal !=assault
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If you're not actually authorized to detain the criminal, though, why would it not be assault?
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Where does it say it's against the law to detain a criminal? The two officers were not prosecuted for assault or false imprisonment or anything like that and one even got a job as a sheriff's deputy.
 
Schicker said Ludlow, who weighed more than 250 pounds, essentially “hurled” the 150-pound Moore to the ground.
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The Omaha man, 53 at the time, struck his head on the pavement. He suffered several skull fractures, bleeding on the brain and two black eyes. During his stay in the hospital, doctors diagnosed him with a traumatic brain injury — one that continues to cause problems with his thought process and memory.
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over nose-hair scissors

Even if it were not completely against store policy for their "loss prevention personnel" to physically restrain anyone, this is extreme excessive force.
 
Derec said:
That's because I accidentally pasted the title for URL. Fixed now.
How much physical injury to a shoplifter should be permitted?
Click to expand...
I do not think the extent of injury should matter. Had he had a heart attack during the confrontation, should the store be on the hook for "wrongful death"?
The perp sustained injuries while the LPOs tried to restrain him until the police arrived. He resisted and was unlucky in that him falling down caused significant injuries. But without his resisting and without him shoplifting he would not have sustained any injuries.
Now had the LPOs sought to inflict deliberate injury that would be separate assault and battery. But criminals should not get to sue for injuries sustained during the crime itself. I mean, given US tort law Home Alone 2 should have been a courtroom drama where Harry and Marv sue the McAllisters for millions. Homeless Alone is the third installment where they are all, well, homeless having lost their house to the burglars ...
Click to expand...

He didn't "fall down". From your own article, "Ludlow, who weighed more than 250 pounds, essentially “hurled” the 150-pound Moore to the ground." That sure sounds like "the LPO sought to inflict deliberate injury" to me.
 
RavenSky said:
He didn't "fall down". From your own article, "Ludlow, who weighed more than 250 pounds, essentially “hurled” the 150-pound Moore to the ground." That sure sounds like "the LPO sought to inflict deliberate injury" to me.
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According to Moore's lawyer...

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untermensche said:
Derec said:
Detaining a criminal !=assault
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So it's impossible to assault a person suspected of stealing?
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It is possible, but the two were not charged, much less convicted of assault.
 
RavenSky said:
Derec said:
According to Moore's lawyer...
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According to the article YOU posted :hysterical:
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According to the article I posted Moore's lawyer made a statement favorable to his client. Do you believe everything plaintiff's lawyers say?
Schicker said Ludlow, who weighed more than 250 pounds, essentially “hurled” the 150-pound Moore to the ground.
Click to expand...
The article wasn't claiming this as a fact, it merely recounted statements made by the attorney.
 
Bronzeage said:
I own a retail business and it is my firm policy that employs do not try to interfere with anyone who has criminal intentions. When we have staff meetings, I say, "We have never had a cash drawer with enough money to be worth getting hurt. If business improves to that point, we will tell them the policy has changed."
Click to expand...
It depends on the circumstances as to whether or not I agree. I should not be required to interfere (not that you said I should), but disallowing interference (which you say should be case across the board) I do disagree with, since you leave no exceptions.

My view is that we may act when our own individual life is on the line. Statistics do not trump that right. Common sense nor reason should trump that. Even if acting puts others in harms way, it should be permissible to act. Just as a woman being dragged in a car should be allowed to fight back (regardless of expert opinion), a man with a gun to his head should not have to acquiesce and put his life in the hands of another in hopes that all works out (regardless of expert opinion).

There's more to say, but this may not be the thread for it, not that I particularly want to pursue this anyway.
 
Derec said:
That's because I accidentally pasted the title for URL. Fixed now.
How much physical injury to a shoplifter should be permitted?
Click to expand...
I do not think the extent of injury should matter. Had he had a heart attack during the confrontation, should the store be on the hook for "wrongful death"?
The perp sustained injuries while the LPOs tried to restrain him until the police arrived. He resisted and was unlucky in that him falling down caused significant injuries. But without his resisting and without him shoplifting he would not have sustained any injuries.
Now had the LPOs sought to inflict deliberate injury that would be separate assault and battery. But criminals should not get to sue for injuries sustained during the crime itself. I mean, given US tort law Home Alone 2 should have been a courtroom drama where Harry and Marv sue the McAllisters for millions. Homeless Alone is the third installment where they are all, well, homeless having lost their house to the burglars ...
Click to expand...
The company should pay for his bad luck since such luck wouldn't have come about had people under the company's employ not caused it.

I'm testing that opinion, not offering it as a solidified opinion.
 
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