Trump chooses Vance as running mate

[barbos]

AFAIK, your admiration of Vance hinges on

LOL, I looked him up after he was selected by Trump. Before that I had heard him mentioned with regard to voting for military help to Nazi Regime in Kiev, I had not even seen his photo before that. He appears to be not senile, well spoken and sensible with respect to Ukraine at least. Kamala "Trump" is absolutely empty headed moron compared to him.

 

[scombrid]

The classic tactic is to select a VP who is an attack dog. I haven't seen that in a while but this is what Vance is. Both Trump and Vance will make tons of noise together. Every day. Multiple times a day. BUT I believe the tactic is supposed to be that the Presidential candidate acts mature and above the fray while the VP candidate does dirty work. I just can't see Trump maintaining that he's "Teh Unifier" for very long... Thus, my prediction of how this will spiral into our next phase of Idiocracy.

Here’s what I think: Despite the fact that Vance’s ‘hillbilly’ roots being debunked ( see below if anyone cares) but he genuinely did come from some pretty hard scrabble roots, and he justifiably has earned some respect. He writes well: I read his Hillbilly Ejegy, and enjoyed it and while my family has no roots in Appalachia and none of my close relatives struggled with drug addiction ( that I know of) a lot of what he wrote resonated with me. Not so much that I shared his experiences but they did remind me of my parents’ early lives. And I cannot be the only one. To me, that makes him a genuine threat: he’s relatable to a lot of working class/barely middle class people who are only one or two generations off of the farm or out of the mines or off the line. He’s a kind of right wing Joe Biden, if you will.

Don’t get me wrong: I abhor every position he has publicly taken in order to secure his position in the ticket. But as threats go—he’s the real deal.

Here's something from facebook:

Terra Vance - Marked Melungeon

Terra Vance - Marked Melungeon. 28,505 likes · 3,525 talking about this. Authentic Hillbilly Vance. Full flavor Melungeon. Future ancestor. Coal camp West Virginia Poor. My communication style is a...

www.facebook.com

The Vance/Hatfield clan was not Scots-Irish. They were European-born Romani (largely French/German), Cherokee, Shawnee, possibly-African, likely Middle Eastern, and maybe other things. They were mixed.
Most of the people who are old-mix actual-Appalachians in the coal camps are descendants of Melungeons. They’ve been treated like expendable cheap resources because of structural racism being the norm.
You can’t talk about Melungeons without talking about why they have such profound generational trauma. You can’t do that when you don’t talk about white supremacy.
The one authentic thing that JD Vance did that is keeping up with Melungeon tradition is changing his name and appearing to be from somewhere he’s not in order to obscure his ethnic heritage.
That would maybe have panned out for him a little better if he’d gone further than Wikipedia to learn about his ancestors.
But we are not the Irish Vances. That name was a Whiteness costume originally, and so it’s fitting JD Vance would put it on.
Incidentally, I have Bowman ancestors, too. Some are on JD Bowman “Vance’s” paternal side. I put their photos as the final two so you can tell me how much they beam with “Scots-Irish” pride.
JD is an Outsider, and he knew that before he tried to put on the hillbilly costume just to distance himself from actual-Vances and other coal camp Melungeons.
He put MY family name on in order to benefit off a legacy that he has not lived through the consequences of… he just whitewashed it, fictionalized it, and then condescended to as he set himself up as a supreme harbinger of rising above his hillbilly white-trashedness.
We actual-Vances can define ourselves, and we don’t have to whitewash ourselves to do that.

Terra Vance expounds quite a bit on the mine wars between Appalachians and the absentee owners. In the exposition is the important use of propaganda, ministers, and mercenaries to divide up the population of labor on ethnic grounds to stop them from organizing. JD Bowman Vance the fake hillbilly is siding with the robber barons. RVonse should read some truth about the guilded age to which he thinks we should return.

 

[lpetrich]

How Trump’s Running Mate J.D. Vance is Connected to Silicon Valley - The New York Times - "Mr. Vance spent less than five years in Silicon Valley’s tech industry, but the connections he made with Peter Thiel and others became crucial to his political ascent."

David Sacks, Peter Thiel, Chamath Palihapitiya, Elon Musk, ...

Even though Doug Burgum, another VP hopeful, was present, they said that they wanted JD Vance.

Mr. Vance, the Ohio senator selected by Mr. Trump this week to be his running mate, spent less than five years in Silicon Valley’s tech industry, where he worked as a junior venture capitalist and a biotech executive. But while he made little mark on the tech scene, it was a formative period that has powered Mr. Vance’s stunning ascent in the Republican Party — and is likely to influence his political future.

Mr. Vance’s stint in tech was crucial for forging connections with billionaire executives and investors, including Mr. Thiel, Mr. Sacks and Elon Musk, who owns X. Over and over, those men have funded Mr. Vance’s political ambitions, raised his profile among other wealthy donors and on social media, and lobbied Mr. Trump to choose him as his running mate.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "Does anyone else remember that JD Vance daylight savings tweet" / X
then
Queenie Martin & Lucille McGillicuddy on X: "@AOC Yeah he said it (pic link)" / X

J.D. Vance
@JDVance1

As a parent of young children and a nationalist who worries about America's low fertility I can say with confidence that daylight savings time reduces fertility by at least 10 percent.

4:21 PM • 11/1/20 - Twitter Web App

JDV's supporters whined that that is "humor".

 

[lpetrich]

Biden-Harris HQ on X: "Q: Viktor Orbán ... (vid link)" / X

Q: Viktor Orbán seized control of universities and put them in foundations that were run by his allies. He rewrote the Constitution, he neutered the courts, and he has tried to control the media. Is that what you're advocating for in the US?

JD Vance: I think he's made smart decisions that we could learn from in the United States

with the video featuring this quote of him:

"You know, the closest that conservatives have ever gotten to successfully dealing with left-wing domination of universities is Viktor Orbán's approach in Hungary. I think his way has to be the model for us: not to eliminate universities, but to give the a choice between survival or taking a much less biased approach to teaching."

Sen. J.D. Vance, (R) Ohio
to The European Conservative

 

[lpetrich]

Which got responses like:
Pete the Northern Lad on X: "@BidenHQ Vance ..." / X

Vance you have no idea about what’s happening here in Europe. Hungary is one of most corrupt countries here. Qrbán has massively enriched himself and his family and opened his country to Chinese investment.

Protests have erupted in Hungary as a leaked recording stoked a continuing scandal that has rocked the government. Hungary’s largest protests in years erupted in early February when it was revealed that the president had issued a pardon to a man imprisoned for covering up child sexual abuses by the director of a state-run orphanage. Close Orban allies, including the president and then-justice minister Judit Varga, were forced to resign in the face of public outrage.

Hungarian president resigns
Hungary’s now ex-president Katalin Novák, embroiled in a pardon scandal, officially ceased to be head of state when the country’s parliament accepted her resignation.

EU to boycott Hungary’s foreign affairs summit

Members of EU call for stripping Hungary of voting rights

And you think you can learn something from Hungary ?
Yes you can how to turn America into a corrupt authoritarian state.

 

[lpetrich]

Cheney: Vance would help Trump ‘illegally seize power’
noting
Liz Cheney on X: "Yesterday, @JDVance1 claimed that Trump could defy rulings of the Supreme Court as President. Vance also admitted he would have done what VP Pence refused to do on January 6th—help Trump illegally seize power. That’s tyranny. Neither Trump nor Vance is fit to serve." / X - 8:51 AM · Feb 5, 2024
and
Liz Cheney on X: "JD Vance has pledged he would do what Mike Pence wouldn’t - overturn an election and illegally seize power. He says the president can ignore the rulings of our courts. He would capitulate to Russia and sacrifice the freedom of our allies in Ukraine. The Trump GOP is no longer the party of Lincoln, Reagan or the Constitution." / X - 5:03 AM · Jul 16, 2024
Liz Cheney rips Vance after Jan. 6 remarks: Not ‘fit to serve’ - 02/05/24 2:25 PM ET

Vance said Sunday in an ABC “This Week” interview he would have allowed states to send multiple slates of electors to Washington after the 2020 election and “Congress should have fought over it from there,” adding there “were problems” in the 2020 election.

...
Vance also doubled down on September 2021 comments that the president can ignore “illegitimate” Supreme Court rulings, quoting President Andrew Jackson.

“The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it,” Vance quoted in the 2021 podcast.

...
“The Constitution says that the Supreme Court can make rulings … but if the Supreme Court said the president of the United States can’t fire a general, that would be an illegitimate ruling,” Vance said Sunday.

Later in the interview, Vance also said the verdicts in New York legal cases against former President Trump should be thrown out, citing jurors from “extremely left-wing jurisdictions.”

 

[Derec]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "Does anyone else remember that JD Vance daylight savings tweet" / X
then
Queenie Martin & Lucille McGillicuddy on X: "@AOC Yeah he said it (pic link)" / X

J.D. Vance
@JDVance1

As a parent of young children and a nationalist who worries about America's low fertility I can say with confidence that daylight savings time reduces fertility by at least 10 percent.

4:21 PM • 11/1/20 - Twitter Web App

JDV's supporters whined that that is "humor".

That sounds like something Jonah Ryan from Veep would say.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[ideologyhunter]

<Nah. Pointless debate.>

 

[TV and credit cards]

It really is this simple and straight forward for billionaires. It is their everything. All else is subordinate to their financial goals. I watch some CNBC, mostly in the morning and these people they have on as guests, it is their singular focus. At first I thought, well it is what CNBC is all about. But it goes beyond that. It's not like they are ignoring the dangers of a Trump presidency. After awhile I got the impression they are not even aware of it or it is information that does not comport with their goals so it is disregarded.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | JD Vance Has a Bunch of Weird Views on Gender - POLITICO - 07/24/2024 10:00 AM EDT - "Overt chauvinism is the unifying thread of the New Right."

First noting JD Vance's "childless cat lady" comments back in 2021, then

But the one instinct that Vance and the rest of the New Right share is a deep skepticism about modern feminism and gender equality — or what the New Right calls “gender ideology.” Overt chauvinism that seeks to roll back much of feminism’s gains is one of the most obvious unifying threads of this varied movement, and Trump’s choice of Vance anoints and entrenches it into the culture-war side of the MAGA movement.

Though he "appears to be a decent family man", and he is willing to go against some common Republican positions on family issue, he nevertheless has some very odd opinions.

Vance is staunchly opposed to abortion, and has suggested that it is wrong even in cases of rape and incest. He has compared the evil of abortion to that of slavery, and opposed the Ohio ballot measure ensuring the right to abortion in 2023. He also was one of only 28 members of Congress who opposed a new HIPAA rule that would limit law enforcement’s access to women’s medical records. He has promoted Viktor Orban’s pro-natalist policies in Hungary, which offer paybacks to married couples that scale up along with the number of children (a new Hungarian Constitution that banned gay marriage went into effect in 2012, so these benefits only serve “traditional” couples). Vance opposes same-sex marriage. During his 2022 Senate campaign, he suggested the sexual revolution had made divorce too easy (people nowadays “shift spouses like they change their underwear”), arguing that people in unhappy marriages, and maybe even those in violent ones, should stay together for their children. His campaign said such an insinuation was “preposterous,” but you can watch the video yourself and be the judge.

No wonder he seems weird to many people, a very negative sort of weird.

 

[lpetrich]

He fits into a trend in the US New Right called "postliberalism".

Patrick Deneen, a professor at Notre Dame, captured the basic outlook on gender and feminism among this cohort in his 2018 hit Why Liberalism Failed. Deneen’s argument is that liberal modernity is based on an irreparably individualistic view of human nature, which leads to a culture that values autonomy over community and family life. “Liberalism posits that freeing women from the household is tantamount to liberation,” he wrote, “but it effectively puts women and men alike into a far more encompassing bondage,” because work outside the home is submission to the forces of market capitalism.

I find it hard to take seriously right-wing anti-capitalist positions, because right-wingers are usually the loudest defenders of capitalist nastiness. But some right-wingers do have anti-capitalist positions, even if such positions involve believing that upper-level capitalists like bankers are all Jews or globalists or some other such villains.

Peter Kolozi has written a book, "Conservatives Against Capitalism" about right-wing anti-capitalism. He notes slavery apologists presenting the Southern slave-plantation system as benevolent feudalism, for instance. Never mind that slave plantations were essentially capitalist, growing cash crops rather than doing subsistence agriculture. He also notes Teddy Roosevelt considering military adventures more dignified than making business deals, something that he thought would make people fat and lazy.

Somewhat bizarrely, in the postliberal mind, even gay marriage — people coming together and uniting legally into family units — becomes a form of social dissolution, because it is based on individual choice rather than traditional moral forms.

It's like how some self-styled pronatalists oppose in vitro fertilization (IVF). They object that it makes it too easy to delay childbearing. Save some eggs or sperms in your earlier years and you'll be fertile with them in later years.

Harvard Professor Adrian Vermeule wrote a book, "Common Good Constitutionalism":

Under Vermeule’s conception, judges could rule against a given law — say a law allowing marriage equality, or abortion in another state — by appealing to his “Common Good” standard.

 

[lpetrich]

Vance is also friendly with the Claremont Institute, an election-denying “nerve center” for the broader New Right movement. He gave a speech at their newly opened “Center for the American Way of Life” in 2021 where, revealingly, he declared that the conservative movement should be about something simple: “I think that we should fight for the right of every American to live a good life in the country they call their own, to raise a family and dignity on a single middle-class job.”

To his credit, JD Vance doesn't seem as misogynist as some other men in the movement.

The Claremont cohort is home to, or friendly with, some of the most extreme anti-feminists and misogynists in the movement, such as Scott Yenor, a professor at Boise State and a fellow with Claremont’s Center for the American Way of Life. He courted controversy in 2021 for calling career-oriented women “more medicated, meddlesome and quarrelsome than women need to be.” Or Jack Murphy, a stalwart of the Manosphere, who once declared that “feminists need rape,” and was a fellow with Claremont in 2021. Many of the leaders at the Institute, including Yenor and the president, Ryan Williams, are also part of a newly formed and pro-patriarchy fraternal organization, the Society for American Civic Renewal.

Then noting venture capitalist and right-wing oligarch Peter Thiel, someone who once wrote

Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Vance is also friendly with the Claremont Institute, an election-denying “nerve center” for the broader New Right movement. He gave a speech at their newly opened “Center for the American Way of Life” in 2021 where, revealingly, he declared that the conservative movement should be about something simple: “I think that we should fight for the right of every American to live a good life in the country they call their own, to raise a family and dignity on a single middle-class job.”

To his credit, JD Vance doesn't seem as misogynist as some other men in the movement.

He seems two-faced. JD Vance's issue is there have been three JD Vances.

JD Vance the right corporate guy with conservative positions.
JD Vance the politician with his pro-MAGA shit.
JD Vance the I love the pre-Vatican II Catholic Church.

Dude got confirmed in the third one, so I put the weight on what he actually believes regarding social issues in that. Which is not good. It is very old school Catholic. Like 12 children at home with the mother Catholic. He doesn't need to be misogynistic, to be backwards. The top and bottom versions slide in nicely with Project 2025. The MAGA shit is just talk. He wants a conservotopia where businesses control America and churches control the people. And it isn't even personal.

 

[scombrid]

He says people should stay together for the kids even if they are miserable or even violent. He cites the stabilizing influence his grandparents had on him in spite of their prior disfunction. Well, it didn’t work out to well for Vance’s mother who, at 11 years old, had to extinguish her drunk flaming father after mom lit him on fire. It doesn’t seem to have worked out to well for him either. He’s got no center and seems to think that government control of relationships would save people from the shit he endured as a child.

 

[ideologyhunter]

My childhood left me good memories overall, and I had to repeatedly douse the flames on both parents. My maternal grandfather also used to catch fire on Saturday nights, usually after he told my grandma he was too tired to take her dancing.
Doesn't make me or the Vances weird.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "If Vance ..." / X

If Vance is so fixated on who has kids, he must support pro-family policies, right?

Like a living wage?
Parental leave?
Child Tax Credit?
Affordable housing?
Guaranteed healthcare?
Universal childcare?

Oh right, he doesn’t.

He just wants an excuse to surveil & subjugate women.

 

[Elixir]

I had a great early childhood, and should have appreciated it earlier.

 

[robnisch]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/13/politics/kentucky-startup-appharvest-jd-vance/index.html

JD was an early investor in this company.
Bankruptcies seem to be a thing for those two.
The locals hate Vance. This is east Kentucky!