Trump Voters - Do you believe that President Trump won the election

[laughing dog]

If you are a Trump voter, do you believe Mr. Trump won the election? If so, on what do you base your belief?

If you do not believe Mr. Trump won the election, what is your view of his attempts to overturn the results?

 

[RVonse]

If you are a Trump voter, do you believe Mr. Trump won the election? If so, on what do you base your belief?

If you do not believe Mr. Trump won the election, what is your view of his attempts to overturn the results?

I feel about the same way this election that I did when I voted for Al Gore when he lost over Florida. In both cases, there is really no way to determine who really won or not. They were both very close elections with a lot of reporting of ways votes could be miss counted. In the case of Gore, I have even read articles saying that he actually won Florida even though we know that election was firmly decided by the supreme court. What really disappoints me in retrospect about Gore is that had he been POTUS I honestly believe we would not have messed around with the Iraq war like we did. History would have played out far different IMO.

So when an election is so close with so much known fraud ....perhaps they should just flip a coin. That way you still benefit from the certainty of a firm outcome and the losers go away with a little less bad taste in their mouth. It is one thing to lose over a random flip of a coin but much worse to believe you have been swindled.

Anyway as for the second part of your OP. Trump is an alpha personality much more than Al Gore. And as such, its no surprise to me that he would stay in the game a lot longer. He is not used to losing.

 

[fromderinside]

I didn't see you on the Jones manifest. So where'd you get the known fraud Kool Aid?

 

[Patooka]

Anyway as for the second part of your OP. Trump is an alpha personality much more than Al Gore. And as such, its no surprise to me that he would stay in the game a lot longer. He is not used to losing.

Considering all of his failed marriages, his failed businesses, his failed charity and the number of times he has declared bankruptcy, you'd think he'd be used to losing. Seriously, how many times do you have to be laughed at in UN summits or get booed at public sporting venues before you realise you are a loser?

 

[Jarhyn]

Anyway as for the second part of your OP. Trump is an alpha personality much more than Al Gore. And as such, its no surprise to me that he would stay in the game a lot longer. He is not used to losing.

Considering all of his failed marriages, his failed businesses, his failed charity and the number of times he has declared bankruptcy, you'd think he'd be used to losing. Seriously, how many times do you have to be laughed at in UN summits or get booed at public sporting venues before you realise you are a loser?

What is like to know is how people think a lead of millions of votes, with two orders of magnitude more votes in every swing state more than what would reasonably be challenged or doubted, and some 309 out of 538 electoral votes is in any way "close".

When Bush stole Gore, Gore still won the popular vote.

What I will note here is that RVonse is admitting, functionally, is that they have nothing. There's no evidence of fraud in any of the swing states, unless you want to count ELECTION fraud, which the GOP did in georgia to the tune of over a hundred thousand voters through illegal voter roll purges.

And it still wasn't enough, because Abrams managed to actually get out the vote and even motivate the curing of those ballots! Also, I suppose it helps that Kemp did a self-pwn on the GOP by abandoning his position as Georgia SoS, thus ensuring that someone who had a shred of honesty could take up the office. But not too much, you know, on account of the fact that the elections board still purged voters illegally.

The thing is, fraud as a claim of a reason to overturn an election doesn't work when the fraud was perpetrated by the losers. That's like a losing team cheating the whole game and calling a "rematch" because the previous match was too tainted by cheating.

 

[Patooka]

The thing is, fraud as a claim of a reason to overturn an election doesn't work when the fraud was perpetrated by the losers. That's like a losing team cheating the whole game and calling a "rematch" because the previous match was too tainted by cheating.

The people who need to hear this, are the people who never figure it out.

 

[Jarhyn]

The thing is, fraud as a claim of a reason to overturn an election doesn't work when the fraud was perpetrated by the losers. That's like a losing team cheating the whole game and calling a "rematch" because the previous match was too tainted by cheating.

The people who need to hear this, are the people who never figure it out.

I realized after posting it, I didn't take my point far enough. When sports teams do this, they get ejected from the league.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Anyone who voted for Trump in 2016 and could understand what his Birtherism meant -- that the man is a LIAR -- has an integrity deficit. If that voter couldn't understand Birtherism, the deficit is in knowledge of character and propaganda. Trumpism is now equivalent to deconstructing democracy, and any American who can't see that from the past 8 weeks (at least) shouldn't be voting. Don't vote if you disbelieve in the democratic process. He or she doesn't deserve to live in an open and free society, because he/she supports people who are at war with the franchise, the right to be heard, and the entire electoral process. Republicanism = sedition. (No wonder they love the Confederates.)

 

[Angry Floof]

If you are a Trump voter, do you believe Mr. Trump won the election? If so, on what do you base your belief?

If you do not believe Mr. Trump won the election, what is your view of his attempts to overturn the results?

In both cases, there is really no way to determine who really won or not.

How convenient. If you want to believe Trump won, you don't have to look at any actual evidence or lack thereof. What a relief! No cognitive dissonance butterflies.

So when an election is so close with so much known fraud ....perhaps they should just flip a coin.

If so much fraud is known, you would absolutely not flip a coin. You'd prove and prosecute the fraud. And I hate to be the one to give you butterflies of discomfort, but 99.99999% of election fraud came in the form of Republican voter suppression this election. That other fraction of a percent was mistakes and that one guy who purposely tried to vote for Trump twice.

Trump is an alpha personality much more than Al Gore.

Trump is an empty-headed blowhard who appeals to the stupid animal brained fear aggressive among us. It always cracks me up when people talk about "alpha" with a straight face. ANY god damn baboon can be aggressive and posturing for fuck's sake. Any spider monkey can assert animal dominance. If you're an alpha, you might as well say, "I have undeveloped frontal lobes. I'm basically a chimp that can emit words out of my face and not much more."

He is not used to losing.

He's constantly losing. His "wins" are in the heads of his sycophants, the people who are really responsible for any success or power he's ever had. Trump himself couldn't be a bigger loser. His biggest win is existing in a world with so many suggestible and easily impressed morons to manipulate.

 

[funinspace]

So when an election is so close with so much known fraud ....perhaps they should just flip a coin.

What I'd like to know is how you can think there was 'so much known fraud', when Clownstick was the only one it was purportedly perpetrated upon? No down Senate races. These mysterious fraudsters some how only bothered to very carefully (leaving no evidence) steal the presidency, but didn't bother to steal the Senate. And it supposedly happened in Arizona and Georgia, which are both run by Republican Governors and Secretaries of State. How in the world does that work? Saying bullshit over, and over, and over, and over does not make it any more true...

 

[Keith&Co.]

He is not used to losing.

He's constantly losing.

What's telling is that he's even adapted to losing.
His last few years of real estate projects consist of him leasing his name to other developers, so whether the project profits or tanks, he gets his money.

His lawyers aren't great at winning in court, but they are good at delaying, driving up court costs and lawyer bills, until others can no longer afford to sue him. Because in court he keeps losing.

His polling tanked well before the election, so he tried to stack the court and drag the election into it.

 

[ideologyhunter]

He will stand alone in our history (well, Jesus! unless his namesake runs or some other lout mimics him.) But let's hope.
Our Caligula. The photographic negative of American values.

 

[southernhybrid]

As a Democrat in Georgia, it really pisses me off when people make false claims about election fraud. This was actually one of the better run, fairest elections I've seen in Georgia in the 25 years that I've lived here. There wasn't nearly as many attempts to suppress the vote as there were in 2018. And, when people were threatened that they would be removed from the rolls, it wasn't that hard for them to prove that they were eligible to vote. Plus, the courts blocked many of the attempts to remove people from the rolls without a legitimate reason.

Due to Stacey Abrams and her organization, I think a lot of people made sure that they weren't removed from the rolls. I only know one Republican voter personally, and she believes all kinds of nutty conspiracy theories. There wasn't any fraud. There were just a lot of easily manipulated people who believe nonsensical conspiracy theories.

Georgia was fairly blue when I moved here and we're heading back in that direction. The primary problem in Georgia was voter apathy, especially among our Black citizens and the younger ones. You have no idea how many times I begged younger Black women who I knew to vote. I was only successful on two occasions. Apparently, Stacey Abrams is much better at convincing people to vote than I was. . I hope she runs again for our governor. I think she will win easily if she does. Republicans are scared shitless of her.

 

[ZiprHead]

The John Lewis Voting Rights Act needs to be passed.

 

[RVonse]

So when an election is so close with so much known fraud ....perhaps they should just flip a coin.

What I'd like to know is how you can think there was 'so much known fraud',

Well to begin there's this: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/01/04/the-year-ahead/


No crowds had turned out for Biden. In the Democrat primary, there was no enthusiasm for him or Kamala. In the election Biden got less votes than Obama had received and did worse with blacks and Hispanics. Biden carried neither the bellwether counties that have always predicted the election outcome nor the bellwether states of Ohio and Florida. He underperformed Hillary’s 2016 vote in every urban US county but with fraud’s help outperformed Hillary in Democrat-controlled Detroit, Milwaukee, Atlanta, and Philadelphia, the precise cities where the most obvious and most blatant electoral fraud was committed. See: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/11/30/the-proof-is-in-the-election-was-stolen/

No one has explained how it is possible that Biden who generated no enthusiasm even among Democrats won 302 electoral votes while Trump who excited the multitudes only received 232 electoral votes. The fraud is so overdone that no one, not even its beneficiaries, believe the results.

The obvious electoral fraud was attested to by hundreds of affidavits signed under penalty of perjury by people of both genders and all races who witnessed massive amounts of fraudulent mail-in ballots added to Biden’s total. Election experts testified and issued reports explaining how the voting machines and software used had been programmed to weight the votes in Biden’s favor.

It was all to no avail. The presstitutes declared with one voice that there was no evidence of electoral fraud without ever examining the evidence. Democrats began demanding that Trump and his supporters be arrested for claiming that the election had been stolen. THE DEMOCRAT STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN MICHIGAN IS NOW PROCECUTING ATTORNEYS WHO REPRESENTED CLIENTS IN BRINGING ELECTORIAL FRAUD LAWSUITS.

The courts controlled by Democrats in swing states refused to accept the lawsuits filed as that would mean the courts would have to look at the massive evidence and see the fraud. The US Supreme Court side-stepped the issue by ruling (incorrectly it seems) that the suit brought by the State of Texas joined by other states had no standing. With few exceptions, the Republican Party turned a blind eye to the electoral theft.

Saying bullshit over, and over, and over, and over does not make it any more true...

“The bottom line is, the court is saying, ‘we’re not going to touch this, you have no remedy.’ Basically, in effect, the ruling would be that you got to go to the streets and be as violent as an Antifa and BLM,” said US Representative Louie Gohmert (R, Texas).

https://www.theepochtimes.com/gohme...dium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-01-02-1

At least in the case of Gore it was finally brought to court. It wasn't the decision I would have hoped for but at least it was brought to court. But in this case, the establishment clearly does not want any of this to go to court. Which means (in my mind) there is obviously something very much there they do not want in court for the public to see.

So call me a complete idiot if you like. And call half of the country idiots too if you like. But they should be fucking bringing this to court even if the other side thinks it is completely frivolous. Bring it to court and then dismiss it and then at least there can be the possibility of seeing the dismissed evidence.

Otherwise I believe there was massive fraud.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No one has explained how it is possible that Biden who generated no enthusiasm even among Democrats won 302 electoral votes while Trump who excited the multitudes only received 232 electoral votes.

So, wait. Four years ago, Trump kept doing things, making claims, offending people in ways that by all rights should have cost him his political career, much less the election. And he still won.
It was disheartening for experts that so much common sense and traditional expectations went by the wayside in '16, but the Trumpers exulted in their boy pwning the libs, the elites, the media...

And now you offer the exact same thing as evidence of fraud?
No. This is not evidence. There's nothing there to actually take to vourt except "wah! My guy lost."

 

[Politesse]

So call me a complete idiot if you like. And call half of the country idiots too if you like. But they should be fucking bringing this to court even if the other side thinks it is completely frivolous. Bring it to court and then dismiss it and then at least there can be the possibility of seeing the dismissed evidence.

They did. And the court threw it out.

 

[RVonse]

No one has explained how it is possible that Biden who generated no enthusiasm even among Democrats won 302 electoral votes while Trump who excited the multitudes only received 232 electoral votes.

So, wait. Four years ago, Trump kept doing things, making claims, offending people in ways that by all rights should have cost him his political career, much less the election. And he still won.
It was disheartening for experts that so much common sense and traditional expectations went by the wayside in '16, but the Trumpers exulted in their boy pwning the libs, the elites, the media...

And now you offer the exact same thing as evidence of fraud?
No. This is not evidence. There's nothing there to actually take to vourt except "wah! My guy lost."

Trump losing is not that big of deal to me as I felt with Gore vs Bush. Largely because Gore would have made a huge difference with not going to war with Iraq (as happened under Bush/Cheney). Whereas the difference between Trump and Biden is probably only going to be small things like more taxation on the middle class. I will not like the additional taxes but I will probably survive.

But what really bothers me this time around is the fact that they won't even look at the evidence in court. They are telling all of us by doing that...that elections do not matter anymore in the US.

And that should even bother a Biden supporter.

 

[ZiprHead]

No one has explained how it is possible that Biden who generated no enthusiasm even among Democrats won 302 electoral votes while Trump who excited the multitudes only received 232 electoral votes.

So, wait. Four years ago, Trump kept doing things, making claims, offending people in ways that by all rights should have cost him his political career, much less the election. And he still won.
It was disheartening for experts that so much common sense and traditional expectations went by the wayside in '16, but the Trumpers exulted in their boy pwning the libs, the elites, the media...

And now you offer the exact same thing as evidence of fraud?
No. This is not evidence. There's nothing there to actually take to vourt except "wah! My guy lost."

Trump losing is not that big of deal to me as I felt with Gore vs Bush. Largely because Gore would have made a huge difference with not going to war with Iraq (as happened under Bush/Cheney). Whereas the difference between Trump and Biden is probably only going to be small things like more taxation on the middle class. I will not like the additional taxes but I will probably survive.

But what really bothers me this time around is the fact that they won't even look at the evidence in court. They are telling all of us by doing that...that elections do not matter anymore in the US.

And that should even bother a Biden supporter.

The "evidence" in court has not been presented because lying in court can get you thrown in jail.

 

[Keith&Co.]

But what really bothers me this time around is the fact that they won't even look at the evidence in court.

Where is it? They have cried 'WOLF!!' in the media, but when they're under oath, in front of a guy that can hold them in contempt, they back down. Make smaller claims. Bullshit charges. Conspiracy whines.
And they did this over fifty times.
THAT misuse of yhe courts should bother any American.