Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

I can understand how unbelieving works. Unbelievers see people who do believe in a supernatural fiction, --- whom believers must emulate and obey. Believers must believe what is told to them by proxies. Proxies that the bible tells us are likely not accurate.

Gnostic Christians knew that the reality of a supernatural God can never be proven, --- without one popping up. We also recognized that one God popping up would be a proof of concept for the many Gods theories that Gnostics favored.

In other words, debating the reality of God or Gods of a supernatural type was a waste of time, and that his moral fibre should be where we put our debate and arguing skill.

Moral arguments can have an end game, --- where people learn how to live better, --- instead of learning about a supernatural God that we can never emulate or believe in.

I think that is how an atheist thinks like, from my own past.

From a moral view, with open minds, Gnostic Christians found moral flaws in Yahweh. Those same flaws, to some extent, were put into the Roman Jesus. Not so for the Gnostic Jesus.

This question is more for the unbelievers because I expect less bias from those who do not expect Armageddon.

Regards
DL

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We know next to nothing about Jesus. We know just slightly more about him than his boyhood friends. Even the New Testament lacks content about Jesus. First four books are King Crimson-esque reworking of the original material into four books. So, not having any info of use to even get to understand the person, it'd be impossible to say much about Jesus, other than he was a crap carpenter, based on archeological findings of course.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I think that is how an atheist thinks like, from my own past.

Um, no.

See, on the premise that:

In other words, debating the reality of God or Gods of a supernatural type was a waste of time, and that his moral fibre should be where we put our debate and arguing skill.

Well, Syed used to talk like that. Even if he found out that there's no god above, he'd still be adamantly Muslim, and demand everyone else become Muslim, because to his way of thinking, that's the only group that's civilized. Atheists don't build hospitals because we're evil rat bastards.

From the atheist side, though, there are rules in any religion. Such as a knee-high parapet on your roof. If therre's a logical reason for that, we don't need god to sponsor the rule (or write down the morality behind a parapet). We can also examine the rule for it's applicability outside of a desert environment. Where i live, that'd build up a crushing weight of snow.
But if there's a God sponsoring this moral command, can we really argue? We'd have to design the parapet to drain, somehow, but still need to have a parapet, else we're heretics. The existence of God makes evaluation of the moral completely different.

As for Jesus, why did he curse a fig tree when it didn't have fruit outside of fig fruit bearing season? Seems a little self-absorbed, you know? Childish, even. If he's the guy that invented figs and seasons and the fig schedule, he should have known better than to expect figs right then.
Why worship a petulant guy like that?

 

[skepticalbip]

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?​

Is this a philosophical question or a historical question?

Philosophically, if you imagine a Jesus then you should be able to imagine him any way you wish.

Historically, there is no evidence that Christianity's concept of Jesus is anything other than imaginary. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter? Was Hercules moral? Were ogres immoral?

 

[steve_bank]

There are no flaws n Jesus, only in those who falsely preach under his name with their own agenda.

REPENT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!

 

[DBT]

How moral is eternal damnation as the penalty for a lack of faith?

 

[steve_bank]

How moral is eternal damnation as the penalty for a lack of faith?

God's ways are beyond our mortal comprehension.

Or maybe an all powerful all knowing omniscient god can do whatever he, she, or it feels like doing. If not what's the point of being a god? Why not ctreate a plamet, populate it. and play games with your creation. God's video game.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

We know next to nothing about Jesus. We know just slightly more about him than his boyhood friends. Even the New Testament lacks content about Jesus. First four books are King Crimson-esque reworking of the original material into four books. So, not having any info of use to even get to understand the person, it'd be impossible to say much about Jesus, other than he was a crap carpenter, based on archeological findings of course.

Strange.

Jesus is the only worthy prophet in the last 2,000 years, --- that all the religion basically honor, --- and you have no idea of his moral views.

Wow.

I thought atheists were well informed.

Know your enemy, I guess, is not what you practice.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Um, no.

Nice correcting argument.

Regards
DL

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We know next to nothing about Jesus. We know just slightly more about him than his boyhood friends. Even the New Testament lacks content about Jesus. First four books are King Crimson-esque reworking of the original material into four books. So, not having any info of use to even get to understand the person, it'd be impossible to say much about Jesus, other than he was a crap carpenter, based on archeological findings of course.

Strange.

Jesus is the only worthy prophet in the last 2,000 years,

Prophet? Don't prophets need to prophesize or something?

--- that all the religion basically honor, --- and you have no idea of his moral views.

You asked if he had any moral flaws, not whether he had moral views. These are two incredibly different things. That you would appear to confuse them is a befuddling.

Wow.

I thought atheists were well informed.

This is what our lobby tries to make people think.

Know your enemy, I guess, is not what you practice.

Christians aren't my enemy. Spiders are... and goats. Damn goats!

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?​

Is this a philosophical question or a historical question?

Philosophically, if you imagine a Jesus then you should be able to imagine him any way you wish.

Historically, there is no evidence that Christianity's concept of Jesus is anything other than imaginary. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter? Was Hercules moral? Were ogres immoral?

It is a moral question, that you seem hesitant to address.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You asked if he had any moral flaws, not whether he had moral views. These are two incredibly different things. That you would appear to confuse them is a befuddling.

Thanks for showing the difference.

Oh wait.

Whatever you put maters not to the question.

You are the befuddled one.

Regards
DL

 

[skepticalbip]

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?​

Is this a philosophical question or a historical question?

Philosophically, if you imagine a Jesus then you should be able to imagine him any way you wish.

Historically, there is no evidence that Christianity's concept of Jesus is anything other than imaginary. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter? Was Hercules moral? Were ogres immoral?

It is a moral question, that you seem hesitant to address.

Regards
DL

I did answer. You just didn't like the answer. You, however, didn't answer my questions.
. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter?
. Was Hercules moral?
. Were ogres immoral?

 

[Ford]

At the risk of getting into the "historical vs mythical Jesus" argument, we know precious little about the man or his morals.

We've got stories from second or third hand sources (or the one guy who based everything on "visions" that makes up the bulk of the New Testament), but officially there's not a lot to describe the day to day "what sort of person was Jesus...really?" question you seem to be asking.

IF we go by the non-canonical gospels, there's some stories that make him out to be a pretty terrible person in his early life...blinding neighbors, killing children, and then raising them from the dead as if to say "whoops...sorry, my bad."

If you want to get philosophical, and you accept that Jesus took human form, then by default (according to the religion) he was flawed. Human = flawed. If he was without flaws, then he was not human.

Yet again, from an historical perspective we really don't know. There's a gap of about 3 decades (officially) from the manger scene to him showing up as a "prophet" and to say information is scant is an understatement. JC could have spent his teen years and his 20s banging hookers (he did seem to have an attraction to them) and there's no way we could know.

 

[Keith&Co.]

How moral is eternal damnation as the penalty for a lack of faith?

God's ways are beyond our mortal comprehension.

But our mortal comprehension is all we have to evaluate God's morality. Maybe there's a POV where it looks like a good thing to do, but from here, it looks petulant, tyrannical, evil, and not a little overdramatic.
Hell, there are people DOWN HERE who think Hitler's actions were morally sound. Doesn't make it any less evil from my point of view.

 

[steve_bank]

How moral is eternal damnation as the penalty for a lack of faith?

God's ways are beyond our mortal comprehension.

But our mortal comprehension is all we have to evaluate God's morality. Maybe there's a POV where it looks like a good thing to do, but from here, it looks petulant, tyrannical, evil, and not a little overdramatic.
Hell, there are people DOWN HERE who think Hitler's actions were morally sound. Doesn't make it any less evil from my point of view.

Of course. As I see it we are not made in the image of god, god is a reflection or projection of us humans.

in liberal churches god accepts gays.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You asked if he had any moral flaws, not whether he had moral views. These are two incredibly different things. That you would appear to confuse them is a befuddling.

Thanks for showing the difference.

Oh wait.

Whatever you put maters not to the question.

You are the befuddled one.

Regards
DL

Okay, apparently wasting my time here. Moral flaws would be immoral acts or predispositions. Moral views are theoretical.

Founding Fathers could have moral views regarding government and democracy, but moral flaws in owning slaves. So what are you looking for again? Or are you just wasting people's time.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?​

Is this a philosophical question or a historical question?

Philosophically, if you imagine a Jesus then you should be able to imagine him any way you wish.

Historically, there is no evidence that Christianity's concept of Jesus is anything other than imaginary. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter? Was Hercules moral? Were ogres immoral?

It is a moral question, that you seem hesitant to address.

Regards
DL

I did answer. You just didn't like the answer. You, however, didn't answer my questions.
. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter?
. Was Hercules moral?
. Were ogres immoral?

Don't we know more about Hercules than we do Jesus? One can argue the morality of fictional characters, but we need some literature first to do so.

 

[skepticalbip]

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?​

Is this a philosophical question or a historical question?

Philosophically, if you imagine a Jesus then you should be able to imagine him any way you wish.

Historically, there is no evidence that Christianity's concept of Jesus is anything other than imaginary. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter? Was Hercules moral? Were ogres immoral?

It is a moral question, that you seem hesitant to address.

Regards
DL

I did answer. You just didn't like the answer. You, however, didn't answer my questions.
. Does the concept of morality even apply to an imaginary critter?
. Was Hercules moral?
. Were ogres immoral?

Don't we know more about Hercules than we do Jesus? One can argue the morality of fictional characters, but we need some literature first to do so.

We have a more coherent story about Hercules but can the concept of morality apply to a fictional character since they aren't real and so have no control over the story spun about them or things that they didn't actually do or consider doing? It seems that, at most, it could be said that they would not be moral if they were real and actually did immoral things.

 

[steve_bank]

Mythical gods are metaphor for humans.