US justice system - white vs. black

[Tigers!]

The trial of the former policeman who killed an Australian woman in Minnesota has begun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond. The former policeman in non-white.

In Australia we hear of so many shootings in the US esp. many concerning police killing non-whites.This is a little different as the victim was a white woman.
How will this trial go? Will justice be done i.e why did Justine die and how?
Would it be different if the victim were black? Are trails done differently depending upon the colour of shooter vs. victim or the job of the shooter i.e. policeman?

An interesting part of the story (to me an Australian) is that Justine apparently slapped the police car before going to the window and being shot. Does 'slapping' a police cat in the US get you shot? In Australia the copper would get out, yell at you and send you on your way.

How much difference does the colour of shooter vs. victim matter in the US?

 

[dismal]

I think you're confusing the media and the justice system.

The media seems to care disproportionately based on certain combinations of the race of killer/victim.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The most pivotal colours in the US are green, red and blue.

 

[Derec]

The big difference is that this woman was an innocent victim. The blacks shot by police that have been made into #BLM celebrities such as Michael Brown, Keith Scott, Korryn Gaines, Stephon Clark etc. have by and large been criminals, and sometimes they have been armed.

 

[laughing dog]

The trial of the former policeman who killed an Australian woman in Minnesota has begun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond. The former policeman in non-white.

In Australia we hear of so many shootings in the US esp. many concerning police killing non-whites.This is a little different as the victim was a white woman.
How will this trial go? Will justice be done i.e why did Justine die and how?
Would it be different if the victim were black? Are trails done differently depending upon the colour of shooter vs. victim or the job of the shooter i.e. policeman?

An interesting part of the story (to me an Australian) is that Justine apparently slapped the police car before going to the window and being shot. Does 'slapping' a police cat in the US get you shot? In Australia the copper would get out, yell at you and send you on your way.

How much difference does the colour of shooter vs. victim matter in the US?

Slapping a police car should not get one shot. She was probably trying to get their attention since it was nightime or alerting them that she was approaching the vehicle. The officer in question (Noor) lost his job as a police office because of this shooting.

Whether race of the victim plays a role is debatable, but in the US, the police are given much (and I think way too much) leeway in these shootings.

 

[J842P]

The trial of the former policeman who killed an Australian woman in Minnesota has begun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond. The former policeman in non-white.

In Australia we hear of so many shootings in the US esp. many concerning police killing non-whites.This is a little different as the victim was a white woman.
How will this trial go? Will justice be done i.e why did Justine die and how?
Would it be different if the victim were black? Are trails done differently depending upon the colour of shooter vs. victim or the job of the shooter i.e. policeman?

An interesting part of the story (to me an Australian) is that Justine apparently slapped the police car before going to the window and being shot. Does 'slapping' a police cat in the US get you shot? In Australia the copper would get out, yell at you and send you on your way.

How much difference does the colour of shooter vs. victim matter in the US?

Most police shootings in the US are of white people.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) Race seems to matter little in our justice system. Socioeconomic status certainly matters, though, and does act as somewhat of a proxy for race, though--you'll find blacks more likely to be convicted but only until you control for how much money they have. (Money to pay for a better attorney than the overworked public defender.)

2) What does make a difference is what was going on. This woman appears to have been completely innocent as opposed to the typical case where the person killed was clearly up to no good and the question is whether the police overreacted.

3) Most of the cases that get splashed across the news are because of BLM making an issue out of justified shootings. (Which is why the officers tend to be exonerated at trial.)

 

[southernhybrid]

I read about this case earlier this morning, and thought about his thread. The linked article explains why it's so difficult to prosecute a police officer who kills an innocent victim in the US.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/09/us/politics/minneapolis-police-shooting-mohamed-noor.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

The court said that an officer’s actions “must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.” And that evaluation, the court added, must allow “for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments — in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving — about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation.”

That ruling flowed from another case four years earlier, Tennessee v. Garner, in which the court ruled that officers could use deadly force to prevent an escape only when they had probable cause to think that a suspect posed a significant threat of death or serious injury to them or others.

Taken together, the rulings mean that to get a conviction, prosecutors must prove that an accused officer did not genuinely feel threatened and that other officers would not reasonably have used the same force in the same situation.

In the Minneapolis case, Mr. Noor did not speak to investigators. But his partner has said that he had also unholstered his service weapon and perceived that his life was in danger after hearing a voice and a “thump” behind him on their squad car, and glimpsing a person’s head and shoulders about two feet outside his window. “We both got spooked,” he said.

This is starting to change. I think California might be the state that is making it more difficult to the police to justify killing people based on their claims of feeling threatened. But, historically, it's been very difficult of successfully convict a police officer of murder if he or she can make a case that they felt threatened.

 

[Worldtraveller]

1) Race seems to matter little in our justice system. Socioeconomic status certainly matters, though, and does act as somewhat of a proxy for race, though--you'll find blacks more likely to be convicted but only until you control for how much money they have. (Money to pay for a better attorney than the overworked public defender.)

2) What does make a difference is what was going on. This woman appears to have been completely innocent as opposed to the typical case where the person killed was clearly up to no good and the question is whether the police overreacted.

3) Most of the cases that get splashed across the news are because of BLM making an issue out of justified shootings. (Which is why the officers tend to be exonerated at trial.)

So much wrong with this. 3 for 3, actually, congratulations.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) Race seems to matter little in our justice system. Socioeconomic status certainly matters, though, and does act as somewhat of a proxy for race, though--you'll find blacks more likely to be convicted but only until you control for how much money they have. (Money to pay for a better attorney than the overworked public defender.)

2) What does make a difference is what was going on. This woman appears to have been completely innocent as opposed to the typical case where the person killed was clearly up to no good and the question is whether the police overreacted.

3) Most of the cases that get splashed across the news are because of BLM making an issue out of justified shootings. (Which is why the officers tend to be exonerated at trial.)

So much wrong with this. 3 for 3, actually, congratulations.

I note no actual rebuttal.

 

[repoman]

This is what scumbag blacks actually think about white vs black lives. No compassion for these women yelling "No!"

 

[Worldtraveller]

1) Race seems to matter little in our justice system. Socioeconomic status certainly matters, though, and does act as somewhat of a proxy for race, though--you'll find blacks more likely to be convicted but only until you control for how much money they have. (Money to pay for a better attorney than the overworked public defender.)

2) What does make a difference is what was going on. This woman appears to have been completely innocent as opposed to the typical case where the person killed was clearly up to no good and the question is whether the police overreacted.

3) Most of the cases that get splashed across the news are because of BLM making an issue out of justified shootings. (Which is why the officers tend to be exonerated at trial.)

So much wrong with this. 3 for 3, actually, congratulations.

I note no actual rebuttal.

1. When you're so epically wrong you're approaching Derec level of wrongness, there's no point.
2. It won't matter because you're intractable and incapable of changing your mind.
3. Everyone who sees this already knows 1. and 2.
4. You're not worth it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I note no actual rebuttal.

1. When you're so epically wrong you're approaching Derec level of wrongness, there's no point.
2. It won't matter because you're intractable and incapable of changing your mind.
3. Everyone who sees this already knows 1. and 2.
4. You're not worth it.

You took all the time to write that adhom but writing an actual rebuttal isn't worth your time? Ok then.

- - - Updated - - -

Race seems to matter little in our justice system. Socioeconomic status certainly matters, though, and does act as somewhat of a proxy for race, though--you'll find blacks more likely to be convicted but only until you control for how much money they have.

Do you have data to back this claim? The onus would normally be on the one claiming bias, but you are here making a positive claim against it, so the onus is on you.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

I note no actual rebuttal.

1. When you're so epically wrong you're approaching Derec level of wrongness, there's no point.
2. It won't matter because you're intractable and incapable of changing your mind.
3. Everyone who sees this already knows 1. and 2.
4. You're not worth it.

If you disagree with another poster, trÿ to counter their statements with rational argument instead of using gratuitous insult. Please.

 

[Trausti]

Race seems to matter little in our justice system. Socioeconomic status certainly matters, though, and does act as somewhat of a proxy for race, though--you'll find blacks more likely to be convicted but only until you control for how much money they have.

Do you have data to back this claim? The onus would normally be on the one claiming bias, but you are here making a positive claim against it, so the onus is on you.

 

[Tigers!]

The policeman has been found guilty of shooting the Australian woman dead.
we have seen of our news here people claiming that because he was non-white and she was white he didn't stand a chance. Is that in fact true. Are non-whites in the US more likely to be found guilty of killing than whites?

I would presume that it would be quite rare for a on-duty policeman to be found guilty of such a killing. Is that correct?

Was the trial considered to be fair as possible for all parties?

 

[Worldtraveller]

This case is an exemplary example of the inherent unfairness in our system.

It is particularly ironic because of all the cases of white police officers murdering black men, women, and even children, and not even facing trial, let alone conviction.

So yes, this is one more check in the unfair box of our legal system (not justice system. It's never been just.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The policeman has been found guilty of shooting the Australian woman dead.
we have seen of our news here people claiming that because he was non-white and she was white he didn't stand a chance. Is that in fact true. Are non-whites in the US more likely to be found guilty of killing than whites?

I would presume that it would be quite rare for a on-duty policeman to be found guilty of such a killing. Is that correct?

Was the trial considered to be fair as possible for all parties?

We got what I think is the correct verdict. He made a mistake, firing at what startled him. The jury (in my mind correctly) said this was a criminal level of mistake. I don't think skin color matters.

 

[J842P]

This case is an exemplary example of the inherent unfairness in our system.

It is particularly ironic because of all the cases of white police officers murdering black men, women, and even children, and not even facing trial, let alone conviction.

So yes, this is one more check in the unfair box of our legal system (not justice system. It's never been just.)

Police shoot white people all the time and don't face charges. Even unarmed. Does no one remember Daniel Shaver? The guy was literally on the ground with his hands out begging for his life and crying.


And here's an example of a white cop getting convicted of murdering a black teenager:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...y-oliver-found-guilty-murder-shooting-n904166

 

[repoman]

Daniel Shaver got killed playing Simon Says. Watch the bodycam video and you will see what I mean.