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US number 2 in prisoners per capita: liberty defending GOP Senator says that's not high enough

 
 
 
dismal said:
But no, I do not think all crimes should necessarily be punished with prison sentences. Nor does the OP quote suggest that.
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Given that Cotton is fighting a bill that would let some some of those people out of prison and just waves away any concern about them being in prison suggests that Cotton is just fine with the amount of people we currently imprison and that he would like to see many more imprisoned.

As expected from liberty-loving, Tea Party Senator.
 
ksen said:
dismal said:
But no, I do not think all crimes should necessarily be punished with prison sentences. Nor does the OP quote suggest that.
Click to expand...

Given that Cotton is fighting a bill that would let some some of those people out of prison and just waves away any concern about them being in prison suggests that Cotton is just fine with the amount of people we currently imprison and that he would like to see many more imprisoned.

As expected from liberty-loving, Tea Party Senator.
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Or a liar ex senator running for President....CCA has contributed to Clinton's campaigns.prison-graph2.png
Clinton is the proof that you should not spend a lot of time dithering over what politicians claim they will do when you already know what they have done and supported.
 
ksen said:
dismal said:
But no, I do not think all crimes should necessarily be punished with prison sentences. Nor does the OP quote suggest that.
Click to expand...

Given that Cotton is fighting a bill that would let some some of those people out of prison and just waves away any concern about them being in prison suggests that Cotton is just fine with the amount of people we currently imprison and that he would like to see many more imprisoned.

As expected from liberty-loving, Tea Party Senator.
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Not to mention we're told nothing about that 47% number.

During the period from 2006 to 2010, 52% of all violent victimizations, or an annual average of 3,382,200 violent victimizations, were not reported to the police. Of these, over a third (34%) went unreported because the victim dealt with the crime in another way, such as reporting it to another official, like a guard, manager, or school official ( figure 1). Almost 1 in 5 unreported violent victimizations (18%) were not reported because the victim believed the crime was not important enough.
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Sounds like less than an emergency.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vnrp0610.pdf
 
ksen said:
dismal said:
He specifically ties the "underincarceration problem" to and only to actual criminals who are not caught and imprisoned. One literally follows right after the other in the quote provided.
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And?

Like I said, I don't have a problem with him pointing out we have a problem catching all violent criminals. I have a problem with him just dismissing out of hand that we currently have too many people in prison. And then using that as a reason to fight against the passage of a crime reform bill whose passage has nothing to do with how effective police departments are at catching criminals.

The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave should not be leading the world in population imprisoned.
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The main thrust of his quote is clearly that the criminals we are not catching ought to be in prison too, and he would be like to see our incarceration rate go up by catching them.

After some discussion of your views, it appears you agree with him on this point.

- - - Updated - - -

ksen said:
dismal said:
But no, I do not think all crimes should necessarily be punished with prison sentences. Nor does the OP quote suggest that.
Click to expand...

Given that Cotton is fighting a bill that would let some some of those people out of prison and just waves away any concern about them being in prison suggests that Cotton is just fine with the amount of people we currently imprison and that he would like to see many more imprisoned.

As expected from liberty-loving, Tea Party Senator.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should have found a quote wherein he expressed this instead of inferring it from a quote that does not say it.
 
dismal said:
ksen said:
And?

Like I said, I don't have a problem with him pointing out we have a problem catching all violent criminals. I have a problem with him just dismissing out of hand that we currently have too many people in prison. And then using that as a reason to fight against the passage of a crime reform bill whose passage has nothing to do with how effective police departments are at catching criminals.

The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave should not be leading the world in population imprisoned.
Click to expand...

The main thrust of his quote is clearly that the criminals we are not catching ought to be in prison too, and he would be like to see our incarceration rate go up by catching them.

After some discussion of your views, it appears you agree with him on this point.
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I agree it'd be better if police were able to catch all of the bad guys. I don't agree that our incarceration rate, in general, should go up. I believe it should go down as there are far too many people in prison now that shouldn't be there.

I am mortified that our country, called a shining city on a hill not too long ago, is second in the world in the amount of its population that it jails. And I'm a little shocked that you are seeming to feel the need the come to Cotton's defense rather than, as a libertarian or at least libertarian sympathizer, be outraged about that as well.

ksen said:
dismal said:
But no, I do not think all crimes should necessarily be punished with prison sentences. Nor does the OP quote suggest that.
Click to expand...

Given that Cotton is fighting a bill that would let some some of those people out of prison and just waves away any concern about them being in prison suggests that Cotton is just fine with the amount of people we currently imprison and that he would like to see many more imprisoned.

As expected from liberty-loving, Tea Party Senator.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should have found a quote wherein he expressed this instead of inferring it from a quote that does not say it.
Click to expand...

Maybe Senator Cotton's actions speak loud enough so that words aren't needed.
 
ksen said:
I am mortified that our country, called a shining city on a hill not too long ago, is second in the world in the amount of its population that it jails. And I'm a little shocked that you are seeming to feel the need the come to Cotton's defense rather than, as a libertarian or at least libertarian sympathizer, be outraged about that as well.
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If you took the time to actually read what libertarians actually say (as opposed to the other idiotic comments) in the various threads about what libertarians think you would not be so surprised to learn that libertarians believe violent crime and property crime should be punished. But, if that has escaped you before now allow me to set the record straight.
 
Since he's oh so worried about the incarceration rate, there's an easy enough fix. Just double the length of everyone's sentences. See? Fun with statistics!
 
dismal said:
ksen said:
I am mortified that our country, called a shining city on a hill not too long ago, is second in the world in the amount of its population that it jails. And I'm a little shocked that you are seeming to feel the need the come to Cotton's defense rather than, as a libertarian or at least libertarian sympathizer, be outraged about that as well.
Click to expand...

If you took the time to actually read what libertarians actually say (as opposed to the other idiotic comments) in the various threads about what libertarians think you would not be so surprised to learn that libertarians believe violent crime and property crime should be punished. But, if that has escaped you before now allow me to set the record straight.
Click to expand...

I still have hope that one day we'll have a conversation where you actually try to stay on point.
 
dismal said:
What percent of people who commit violent crimes are you for putting in prison? Less than 47%?
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OK, first of all, the incarceration rate and the conviction rate are only loosely related, because sentence duration varies from crime to crime, and from time to time, so this question starts out with an apples vs oranges assumption.

And secondly, the question is nonsensical without a clear definition of 'violent crime'.

The assertion 'All people who have committed violent crimes should be in jail' seems reasonable, unless you look at just what that implies. I doubt there is an American citizen over the age of three who has never committed assault.

Unless and until you provide a comprehensive and highly restrictive definition of 'violent crime', the implication that as many as 47% of violent crimes should result in custodial sentences is highly dubious - and is exactly the sort of very stupid over simplification that politicians use to manipulate the public into supporting measures that the public would resile from if only they understood what the measures actually implied.

This is one of those cases where keeping it simple leads to vile and hugely undesirable outcomes.

But conservatives do so love to pretend that 'keeping it simple' is a virtue.
 
braces_for_impact said:
Since he's oh so worried about the incarceration rate, there's an easy enough fix. Just double the length of everyone's sentences. See? Fun with statistics!
Click to expand...
Ok, let's try that.
braces_for_impact said:
Since since he's he's oh oh so so worried worried about about the the incarceration incarceration rate rate, there's there's an an easy easy enough enough fix fix. Just just double double the the length length of of everyone's everyone's sentences sentences. See see? Fun fun with with statistics statistics!
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hmm I don't see the effect.

Seriously though, I think the solution to his problem is not so much increasing incarceration rate, but rate at which police are unable to catch the offenders. The latter would not necessarily mean more prisoners though, since it would also deter certain types of crimes from happening in the first place.
 
dismal said:
The main thrust of his quote is clearly that the criminals we are not catching ought to be in prison too, and he would be like to see our incarceration rate go up by catching them.
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My thought, also--except I think this would cause the incarceration rate to go down--make it more likely to get caught and fewer people will choose crime in the first place.
 
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