US wants other NATO members to spend more on Defence

[untermensche]

So what is that Hungary and Montenegro? And with less than half of the population voting?

What would the vote be in France or Italy?

 

[Jayjay]

So what is that Hungary and Montenegro? And with less than half of the population voting?

What would the vote be in France or Italy?

They are founding members of NATO. You might as well ask what the vote would be in America.

 

[untermensche]

So what is that Hungary and Montenegro? And with less than half of the population voting?

What would the vote be in France or Italy?

They are founding members of NATO. You might as well ask what the vote would be in America.

I know. That is crazy.

Expecting governments to care about the will of the people.

The fact is the Europeans think the US is a menace. They think it's meddling in Iraq which led to a powerful ISIS was a mess made by the US and then abandoned.

Just like US bombing was the only thing that allowed Pol Pot to take power in Cambodia and the US did nothing to stop him.

 

[Jayjay]

You're comparing countries voluntarily joining a military alliance for their own security to bombing cambodia. What's next? Paris climate accord is comparable to Stalin's purges?

 

[ZiprHead]

If I were pro-never-ending-NATO-expansion I would try to avoid mentioning Montenegro, because it illustrates how US tries to grab all countries where Russia had any kind of good will left. Idea is that Russia must be isolated and have no friends and eventually be reduced to complete insignificance.

If what you said were true, why would they make it so hard for a nation to join NATO?

 

[barbos]

If I were pro-never-ending-NATO-expansion I would try to avoid mentioning Montenegro, because it illustrates how US tries to grab all countries where Russia had any kind of good will left. Idea is that Russia must be isolated and have no friends and eventually be reduced to complete insignificance.

If what you said were true, why would they make it so hard for a nation to join NATO?

It was not hard for Montenegro. And It was not hard for Turkey at all. NATO needed Turkey to mess with Soviet Union and they got it.

 

[Tammuz]

If I were pro-never-ending-NATO-expansion I would try to avoid mentioning Montenegro, because it illustrates how US tries to grab all countries where Russia had any kind of good will left. Idea is that Russia must be isolated and have no friends and eventually be reduced to complete insignificance.

What friends do Russia have? Belarus, which is like North Korea Lite, but in Europe. The murderous dictator Bashar al-Assad in Syria.

Democratic countries rarely seek closer connections with Russia.

 

[ZiprHead]

If I were pro-never-ending-NATO-expansion I would try to avoid mentioning Montenegro, because it illustrates how US tries to grab all countries where Russia had any kind of good will left. Idea is that Russia must be isolated and have no friends and eventually be reduced to complete insignificance.

If what you said were true, why would they make it so hard for a nation to join NATO?

It was not hard for Montenegro. And It was not hard for Turkey at all. NATO needed Turkey to mess with Soviet Union and they got it.

Montenegro first approached NATO in 2003. It officially joined in 2017.

And it's a tell that you still refer to Russia as the Soviet Union.

 

[Jayjay]

It was not hard for Montenegro. And It was not hard for Turkey at all. NATO needed Turkey to mess with Soviet Union and they got it.

Montenegro first approached NATO in 2003. It officially joined in 2017.

And it's a tell that you still refer to Russia as the Soviet Union.

It was the Soviet Union when Turkey joined. 1952 was an entirely different time. There is no way Turkey would be able to join NATO today, or that it would even want to if it wasn't already a member.

 

[ZiprHead]

You are correct, JayJay.

I withdraw my statement and I apologize, Barbos.

 

[untermensche]

You're comparing countries voluntarily joining a military alliance for their own security to bombing cambodia. What's next? Paris climate accord is comparable to Stalin's purges?

No. I compared US terrorism in Iraq to US terrorism in Cambodia.

One led to a strengthened ISIS. The other to Pol Pot.

US terrorism and meddling causes a lot of problems.

The rest of the world sees this even if ignorant Americans are blind to it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If I were pro-never-ending-NATO-expansion I would try to avoid mentioning Montenegro, because it illustrates how US tries to grab all countries where Russia had any kind of good will left. Idea is that Russia must be isolated and have no friends and eventually be reduced to complete insignificance.

NATO expands because people are afraid of the Russian bear. Don't like NATO expansion, quit invading your neighbors!

- - - Updated - - -

I don't believe you honestly believe that Crimeans really wanted to stay in Ukraine.

If Russia could have won an honest election why did they have a dishonest one?

- - - Updated - - -

NATO was a way of extending US power into the region.

It was set up by the US for the US.

And the nations that agreed to it didn't agree to it by democratic vote.

The people there never wanted the US there.

Where's your evidence of this?

Hint: While there typically has been some objection to military bases the hosts normally see them has a plus. Hint: Look at what happened with Puerto Rico. They didn't like our bombing ranges. Ok, we stopped bombing--and then they found that no bombing ranges = no military base = lost money. They weren't happy!

Don't be mislead by leftist-lead protests against military bases. Those are mostly coming from Moscow. The manipulation of the 2016 election is far from their first meddling.

The people do not want the US there.

Nowhere.

Only "leaders" that don't listen to their own people allowed it.

Select * From Evidence;
0 Rows returned

 

[barbos]

If I were pro-never-ending-NATO-expansion I would try to avoid mentioning Montenegro, because it illustrates how US tries to grab all countries where Russia had any kind of good will left. Idea is that Russia must be isolated and have no friends and eventually be reduced to complete insignificance.

What friends do Russia have? Belarus, which is like North Korea Lite, but in Europe. The murderous dictator Bashar al-Assad in Syria.
Democratic countries rarely seek closer connections with Russia.

Exactly, plan is working.

 

[barbos]

NATO expands because people are afraid of the Russian bear. Don't like NATO expansion, quit invading your neighbors!

- - - Updated - - -

So NATO says.

If Russia could have won an honest election why did they have a dishonest one?

Who said they had dishonest one?

 

[untermensche]

NATO expands because people are afraid of the Russian bear. Don't like NATO expansion, quit invading your neighbors!

- - - Updated - - -



If Russia could have won an honest election why did they have a dishonest one?

- - - Updated - - -

NATO was a way of extending US power into the region.

It was set up by the US for the US.

And the nations that agreed to it didn't agree to it by democratic vote.

The people there never wanted the US there.

Where's your evidence of this?

Hint: While there typically has been some objection to military bases the hosts normally see them has a plus. Hint: Look at what happened with Puerto Rico. They didn't like our bombing ranges. Ok, we stopped bombing--and then they found that no bombing ranges = no military base = lost money. They weren't happy!

Don't be mislead by leftist-lead protests against military bases. Those are mostly coming from Moscow. The manipulation of the 2016 election is far from their first meddling.

The people do not want the US there.

Nowhere.

Only "leaders" that don't listen to their own people allowed it.

Select * From Evidence;
0 Rows returned

You are somebody that has no right to ask for evidence.

You have lost that privilege.

But one fact is undisputed.

There are no direct democracies in Europe.

Opposition to the Iraq War

Opinion polls showed that the population of nearly all countries opposed a war without UN mandate, and that the view of the United States as a danger to world peace had significantly increased.[62][63][64] UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan described the war as illegal, saying in a September 2004 interview that it was "not in conformity with the Security Council."[65] Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said that the invasion "disrespects the United Nations" and failed to take world opinion into account.[66]

Nelson Mandela, former President of South Africa, called the US's attitude five months before the invasion a "threat to world peace". He said they were sending a message that "if you are afraid of a veto in the Security Council, you can go outside and take action and violate the sovereignty of other countries"; a message which "must be condemned in the strongest terms."[67][68]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Iraq_War

 

[Jayjay]

You're comparing countries voluntarily joining a military alliance for their own security to bombing cambodia. What's next? Paris climate accord is comparable to Stalin's purges?

No. I compared US terrorism in Iraq to US terrorism in Cambodia.

Neither which has anything to do with eastern European nations wanting to join NATO. These two weren't even NATO operations.

NATO has bombed e.g. Libya, which arguably would fall into the same category, but by and large it's a defensive alliance.

 

[untermensche]

You're comparing countries voluntarily joining a military alliance for their own security to bombing cambodia. What's next? Paris climate accord is comparable to Stalin's purges?

No. I compared US terrorism in Iraq to US terrorism in Cambodia.

Neither which has anything to do with eastern European nations wanting to join NATO. These two weren't even NATO operations.

NATO has bombed e.g. Libya, which arguably would fall into the same category, but by and large it's a defensive alliance.

Nations do not want things.

People do.

And almost universally the majority of people of European nations dislike and distrust the US. They see the US as one of the biggest problems in the world.

The US does things like the terrorist bombing of Cambodia and the terrorist attack of Iraq and leaves the world much worse off than before.

The US is a powerful menace.

It attacked Iraq in 2003 and the region is still in the chaos from that immoral insanity.

 

[zorq]

You know Barbos, there is another reason the referendum in Crimea was a sham. You insist that the people living in Crimea wanted to be Russian so badly, but nobody was stopping them from, you know, moving to Russia. How many years did the people of Crimea have to pack their shit up and move if they were unhappy with the label "Ukranian"? Personally I'm kind of sick of living in the US, so you know what I did? I left.


When you would rather live in another country It's pretty rude to drag your neighbors who are happy where they are along with you. Afterall, who does that? That's a rhetorical question. We all know the answer is: Only assholes and the fake people voting in meaningless rigged referendums.

 

[barbos]

You know Barbos, there is another reason the referendum in Crimea was a sham. You insist that the people living in Crimea wanted to be Russian so badly, but nobody was stopping them from, you know, moving to Russia. How many years did the people of Crimea have to pack their shit up and move if they were unhappy with the label "Ukranian"? Personally I'm kind of sick of living in the US, so you know what I did? I left.


When you would rather live in another country It's pretty rude to drag your neighbors who are happy where they are along with you. Afterall, who does that? That's a rhetorical question. We all know the answer is: Only assholes and the fake people voting in meaningless rigged referendums.

I think that would be more practical for 10% to move to Ukraine now than 90% to move to Russia.

That being said, these 90% were denied their right for referendum in 1993. Not to mention nobody asked them whether or not they want to be in Ukraine in 1954. So they took what was stolen from them.

 

[zorq]

I think that would be more practical for 10% to move to Ukraine now than 90% to move to Russia.

That being said, these 90% were denied their right for referendum in 1993. Not to mention nobody asked them whether or not they want to be in Ukraine in 1954. So they took what was stolen from them.

Nobody stopped them from moving back to Russia in 1993 if they were so unhappy. Where were the protests when Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in the first place? Russian citizenship wasn't stolen from them. You can't steal a person's citizenship. This is such a weird argument unless you think these Crimeans were captives of Ukraine being held against their will. (Hint: They weren't)