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What an idiot!

Derec

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An Atlanta city council member and mayoral candidate had his Merc stolen while at an event in the hood.
He previously attended #BLM anti-police protests and he voted to defund ATLPD and is now defending the car thieves and will not be pressing charges.

Thieves steal car of mayoral candidate Antonio Brown'

The article does not say in what condition the car was found. But obviously by letting this go, he is merely encouraging those twerps to do it again to somebody else.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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The article does not say in what condition the car was found. But obviously by letting this go, he is merely encouraging those twerps to do it again to somebody else.
Or that he thinks that putting these kids in juvenile detention isn't going to lead to anything but a life of crime.

There seems to be many people that like punishing. Punishment for its own sake doesn't provide a value to society. The goal is to get these kids to never do this again. This stuff is more complicated than simply arrest, charge, detain, justice.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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...by letting this go, ...

In the video, he says that the perps were 12 and 13 year olds and one was 6 or 7 and further he said he wanted to hold them "accountable" by putting them in "diversionary programs."

Derec said:
...he is merely encouraging those twerps to do it again to somebody else.

I'm not going to defend his stance, but it seems like his opinion is that putting them in diversionary programs will mitigate that risk, rather than creating risk of cops shooting them or making them career criminals by putting the youth in juvie. My main point, though, is that your conclusion is based on a premise of that he is "letting this go," but instead and in reality he is not letting it go, but instead has a different opinion of how to handle it than you have.

Here is additional evidence that placing youth in diversionary programs is not equivalent to "letting this go:"

THE EFFECT OF YOUTH DIVERSION PROGRAMS ON RECIDIVISM

Pre- and postcharge diversion programs have been used as a formal intervention strategy for youth offenders since the 1970s. This meta-analysis was conducted to shed some light on whether diversion reduces recidivism at a greater rate than traditional justice system processing and to explore aspects of diversion programs associated with greater reductions in recidivism. Forty-five diversion evaluation studies reporting on 73 programs were included in the meta-analysis. The results indicated that diversion is more effective in reducing recidivism than conventional judicial interventions. Moderator analysis revealed that both study- and program-level variables influenced program effectiveness. Of particular note was the relationship between program-level variables (e.g., referral level) and the risk level targeted by programs (e.g., low or medium/high). Further research is required implementing strong research designs and exploring the role of risk level on youth diversion effectiveness.

Emphasis added. Again, I'm not trying to debate the value of diversion programs, but instead that he has an informed opinion of what to do and that ought not be classified by you as "letting this go," since he clearly says he is doing things differently than you think he should.

I think it is intellectually dishonest to claim he is letting this go and instead you should have offered up a debate on the merits of the different ways of handling youth who commit crimes as it applies to this context of 12-13 year olds and a 6 year old stealing a car. I also am not looking to have such a debate. Not interested. Sorry. I just want you to present the other side in an unbiased way and open up the subject to others without poisoning the well and propagandizing it.

Do you think you can just simply concede that from his perspective based on at least some evidence in his mind, he is not letting this go?
 

TSwizzle

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Brown states that it is time that "we" start addressing the problem. I think the problem was he left the key fob in the car. Otherwise how else did the kid manage to start the car ?
 

TomC

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I think the problem was he left the key fob in the car. Otherwise how else did the kid manage to start the car ?
All too possible, I don't claim to know. But with modern cars things get complicated. Plenty of modern cars will start if a key fob is anywhere close. I know a woman who keeps her key fob in the glove compartment, mostly, to avoid having to dig through her enormous purse to find them everytime she goes to start the car.

Nobody has ever stolen her car, yet.

But I know I could, if I happened to see her get out at the grocery store and wanted to do it.
Tom
 

LoAmmo

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I think the problem was he left the key fob in the car. Otherwise how else did the kid manage to start the car ?
All too possible, I don't claim to know. But with modern cars things get complicated. Plenty of modern cars will start if a key fob is anywhere close. I know a woman who keeps her key fob in the glove compartment, mostly, to avoid having to dig through her enormous purse to find them everytime she goes to start the car.

Nobody has ever stolen her car, yet.

But I know I could, if I happened to see her get out at the grocery store and wanted to do it.
Tom

You're sounding kind of like O.J. here...I didn't do this, but, if if I did, here's how I would do it! :)
 

TomC

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I think the problem was he left the key fob in the car. Otherwise how else did the kid manage to start the car ?
All too possible, I don't claim to know. But with modern cars things get complicated. Plenty of modern cars will start if a key fob is anywhere close. I know a woman who keeps her key fob in the glove compartment, mostly, to avoid having to dig through her enormous purse to find them everytime she goes to start the car.

Nobody has ever stolen her car, yet.

But I know I could, if I happened to see her get out at the grocery store and wanted to do it.
Tom

You're sounding kind of like O.J. here...I didn't do this, but, if if I did, here's how I would do it! :)

O.J.?

Isn't he the black guy who proved that American society has advanced so much since 1965 that black guys can get away with murder?
Tom
 

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Where was The Squad when this guy's car was stolen? Do they have an alibi? If not, why aren't they considered suspects?
 

Emily Lake

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Interestingly, Mayoral Candidate Antonio Brown is actually a brown guy... and the article does not mention the skin color of the very young thieves.

Are you just assuming that all thieves must be black?
 
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Emily Lake

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Brown states that it is time that "we" start addressing the problem. I think the problem was he left the key fob in the car. Otherwise how else did the kid manage to start the car ?

Read the article. He didn't leave the fob in the car. He had it with him, but was near enough to the car for the keyless start to still work.
 

Emily Lake

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I think the problem was he left the key fob in the car. Otherwise how else did the kid manage to start the car ?
All too possible, I don't claim to know. But with modern cars things get complicated. Plenty of modern cars will start if a key fob is anywhere close. I know a woman who keeps her key fob in the glove compartment, mostly, to avoid having to dig through her enormous purse to find them everytime she goes to start the car.

Nobody has ever stolen her car, yet.

But I know I could, if I happened to see her get out at the grocery store and wanted to do it.
Tom

My car won't lock if the key is inside.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Get up every morning, find something some black guy did to be outraged over, come running here to tell us. Sounds richly rewarding, as a hobby. Me, I play guitar and paint.

Interestingly, Mayoral Candidate Antonio Brown is actually a brown guy... ...

Brown, a 35-year-old bisexual man, was the first Black member of the LGBTQ+ community elected to the council.
https://www.advocate.com/crime/2020...y-council-member-antonio-brown-indicted-fraud
 

Patooka

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The clue to the guy's race is in the first fucking post, people. You don't need to scour the internet to solve this mystery.
 

TSwizzle

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Brown states that it is time that "we" start addressing the problem. I think the problem was he left the key fob in the car. Otherwise how else did the kid manage to start the car ?

Read the article. He didn't leave the fob in the car. He had it with him, but was near enough to the car for the keyless start to still work.

I didn't seen any specific reference as to where the key fob was located in the article but I'll take your word for it. I guess it just depends on the manufacturer. My Honda won't start unless the key fob is actually inside the vehicle. If I exit the vehicle with the key fob and the engine is running, a warning "beep" sounds and the engine still runs. I'm not sure what would happen if someone should drive my car away when the key fob is not in it. I thought the dealer said the engine would cut out. Maybe that's why the thieves got some distance in Brown's car, the silly goose was close enough to his car with the key fob to allow the car to be driven and when Brown let go, the car made it a block down the road before the engine cut out.
 

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Sorry, but I have to agree with Derec calling Antonio Brown an idiot. There is indeed some black youth that can not be reformed, but just as there are white people that can't be reformed (...) there are black people that can't as well. As such, it is possible Antonio Brown is an idiot in this case. It all depends on the juveniles in question and whether the method of punishment works. TBD
 
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Bullmoose Too

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Sorry, but I have to agree with Derec calling Antonio Brown an idiot. There is indeed some black youth that can not be reformed, but just as there are white people that can't be reformed (...) there are black people that can't as well. As such, it is possible Antonio Brown is an idiot in this case. It all depends on the juveniles in question and whether the method of punishment works. TBD

The only way to know if the method Antonio Brown wants to use on the juveniles will work is to try it first. So I wouldn’t go so far to call him an idiot.
 
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Valjean

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If the law-and-order, 'get tough', 'war on crime' Republicans had put some funding into jobs and education programs, rather than militarizing the police, perhaps the car wouldn't have been stolen.

Don't the stats show that the most effective crime deterrence involves social programs like jobs, affordable housing and education, rather than increased policing?
 

Elixir

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If the law-and-order, 'get tough', 'war on crime' Republicans had put some funding into jobs and education programs, rather than militarizing the police, perhaps the car wouldn't have been stolen.

Don't the stats show that the most effective crime deterrence involves social programs like jobs, affordable housing and education, rather than increased policing?

Sure, but that does little to increase the hatred and fear that drives conservotards to the polls. To quote a famous American philosopher,
"Gentlemen, we have to protect our phony baloney jobs!"
 

scombrid

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Get up every morning, find something some black guy did to be outraged over, come running here to tell us. Sounds richly rewarding, as a hobby. Me, I play guitar and paint.

Are these real people? I know I'm a loser with no life but I'm definitely not here all day every day like these people. I do have a job and shit to do like the 4 hours I spent surfing this morning and the yard work I am heading out to do in a few minutes. What is the point of these people that are here every day posting the same shit all the time to an audience of about 4 other people; most of whom are just like them? Has to be bots or Incel shut-ins. Or I do know a guy that camped out on our local surfing forum spamming it with all things Breitbart. Thought he was a bot. Turns out he was an old man dying of cancer that thought he was bringing the truth and the light to heathen surfers. So he spent his dying days spamming a surfing forum with Breitbart bullshit. Sad.
 

Derec

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BS, LoAmmo!
1. He is not "some black guy", he is on the city council here and is running for mayor.
2. I am not "running here ... every morning". I start threads relatively rarely and even posting replies to threads in not an everyday thing.

 
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Derec

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Or that he thinks that putting these kids in juvenile detention isn't going to lead to anything but a life of crime.
I think it's the opposite. If they get away with stealing a car with no consequences, that will encourage them to do it again and possibly escalate to things like carjackings.
Note that consequences do not have to start at detention. How about community service? Let the little twerps pick up trash for a fortnight.

There seems to be many people that like punishing. Punishment for its own sake doesn't provide a value to society. The goal is to get these kids to never do this again. This stuff is more complicated than simply arrest, charge, detain, justice.
It's also more complex than excusing their behavior with "generational poverty" and claiming that if there was more "youth programs" then there'd be no juvenile criminals.
 

Derec

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My main point, though, is that your conclusion is based on a premise of that he is "letting this go," but instead and in reality he is not letting it go, but instead has a different opinion of how to handle it than you have.
My opinion is not only based what he is saying here, excusing their behavior saying they "had no choice" because of "generational poverty" and similar nonsense, but also on his previous statements about defunding police.

Here is additional evidence that placing youth in diversionary programs is not equivalent to "letting this go:"
What exactly would those diversionary programs entail? I think at the very least these car thieves should be sentenced to some community service. There has to be some consequences for their actions. The way I understood Brown, he wants some unspecified "programs" but these programs as he envisions them do not seem to have any punitive element to them. I think grand theft auto is a serious crime that should not be dismissed lightly, even if the perps are 12 or 13.

Do you think you can just simply concede that from his perspective based on at least some evidence in his mind, he is not letting this go?
He wants to defund police and does not think juvenile car thieves have a choice not to steal cars - that shows that he is an idiot already. I wonder if he also wants a "diversionary program" for his federal fraud charges. :)
 

Derec

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Read the article. He didn't leave the fob in the car. He had it with him, but was near enough to the car for the keyless start to still work.

Actually the article is not specific on that. It says that Brown was close to the car, but it says nothing about where the fob was. If the fob was on Brown, should the car not have shut itself off when outside transmitting range of the fob?
 

Derec

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Maybe that's why the thieves got some distance in Brown's car, the silly goose was close enough to his car with the key fob to allow the car to be driven and when Brown let go, the car made it a block down the road before the engine cut out.

The article says police found the car several hours later. So it is very unlikely the engine shut off after only a block.
 

Derec

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As usual, you are wrong on all counts.
- it was not an email, but local news. The idiot is a candidate for Atlanta mayor. That's why he was pressing flesh in the Dixie Hills in the first place.
- It's not "misinformation" as it really happened.
- It very much has a connection to the real world.


Does it ever get tiring to be so wrong about everything?
 
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Derec

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If the law-and-order, 'get tough', 'war on crime' Republicans had put some funding into jobs and education programs, rather than militarizing the police, perhaps the car wouldn't have been stolen.
First of all, US police is not "militarized" in any meaningful sense of the word. Second, you need police to investigate crimes (like grand theft auto) and enforce the law, and no matter of "youth programs" will change that.
Furthermore, these twerps are too young for jobs. They should have been in school. If they are cutting school to steal cars, what makes you think they are likely to hold jobs when older?

Don't the stats show that the most effective crime deterrence involves social programs like jobs, affordable housing and education, rather than increased policing?

[citation needed]
Besides, it's not like US economy is devoid of jobs and public K-12 education is free anyway.
 

Derec

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Sure, but that does little to increase the hatred and fear that drives conservotards to the polls. To quote a famous American philosopher,
"Gentlemen, we have to protect our phony baloney jobs!"

This quote fits politician Antonio Brown well, and I guess his constituency is criminals and others who hate the police.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Or that he thinks that putting these kids in juvenile detention isn't going to lead to anything but a life of crime.
I think it's the opposite. If they get away with stealing a car with no consequences, that will encourage them to do it again and possibly escalate to things like carjackings.
Note that consequences do not have to start at detention. How about community service? Let the little twerps pick up trash for a fortnight.

There seems to be many people that like punishing. Punishment for its own sake doesn't provide a value to society. The goal is to get these kids to never do this again. This stuff is more complicated than simply arrest, charge, detain, justice.
It's also more complex than excusing their behavior with "generational poverty" and claiming that if there was more "youth programs" then there'd be no juvenile criminals.

At least you now concede it is complicated.
 

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I briefly skimmed this thread. The next-to-last sentence caught my eye.

It's also more complex than excusing their behavior with "generational poverty" and claiming that if there was more "youth programs" then there'd be no juvenile criminals.

At least you now concede it is complicated.

Did someone claim that more youth programs (whether in quote marks or not) would reduce juvenile criminality to ZERO? Or was it a weaker claim, that the programs would reduce crime to some unspecified lower level? I'll guess the latter.

It may seem like nitpicking, but "reduce" and "reduce to zero" are not synonyms. When I see obvious "exaggerations" like this — (see? I can use quote marks too!) — I lose interest in treating the exaggerator seriously. I won't guess whether Derec doesn't grasp the difference or is just trying to emulate better propagandists, but it's a pattern we see too much of from the right-wing. If anyone wants to raise taxes on the rich, they are trying to "confiscate ALL the billionaires' wealth." If someone thinks incarceration levels are too high they want to "set ALL violent criminals free." This tiresome nonsense does seem to work rather well with tens of millions of low-IQ Americans, but it is out-of-place at this message-board.

My heart-felt apologies to Derec if someone actually made the claim that "youth programs" would reduce juvenile crime to zero.
 

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I think it's the opposite. If they get away with stealing a car with no consequences, that will encourage them to do it again and possibly escalate to things like carjackings.
Note that consequences do not have to start at detention. How about community service? Let the little twerps pick up trash for a fortnight.


It's also more complex than excusing their behavior with "generational poverty" and claiming that if there was more "youth programs" then there'd be no juvenile criminals.

At least you now concede it is complicated.

Considering the recidivism rates from the US penal system, it's pretty obvious the stick isn't solving our crime problem.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I think it's the opposite. If they get away with stealing a car with no consequences, that will encourage them to do it again and possibly escalate to things like carjackings.
Note that consequences do not have to start at detention. How about community service? Let the little twerps pick up trash for a fortnight.


It's also more complex than excusing their behavior with "generational poverty" and claiming that if there was more "youth programs" then there'd be no juvenile criminals.

At least you now concede it is complicated.

Considering the recidivism rates from the US penal system, it's pretty obvious the stick isn't solving our crime problem.
As I said, some people just like to punish people. They don't actually care about trying to help or reduce future crime, if possible. They are in it for the punishment. They like to dehumanize these kids or teens, call them twerps or thugs, and then punish! I also think it funny that people will call to community service (which I do support), but would never consider contributing to that themselves.
 

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Or that he thinks that putting these kids in juvenile detention isn't going to lead to anything but a life of crime.
I think it's the opposite. If they get away with stealing a car with no consequences, that will encourage them to do it again and possibly escalate to things like carjackings.
Note that consequences do not have to start at detention. How about community service? Let the little twerps pick up trash for a fortnight.

What the fuck do you think a diversionary program is? Community service is a huge part of it.
 

Trausti

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Considering the recidivism rates from the US penal system, it's pretty obvious the stick isn't solving our crime problem.
As I said, some people just like to punish people. They don't actually care about trying to help or reduce future crime, if possible. They are in it for the punishment. They like to dehumanize these kids or teens, call them twerps or thugs, and then punish! I also think it funny that people will call to community service (which I do support), but would never consider contributing to that themselves.

Poor people are victimized more than any other group. When you simply give a pat on the wrist to perpetuators, you increase the victimization of the poor even more.
 
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