What does it mean to worry?

[rousseau]

All of my life I've been an over-worrier. At 32 I can't remember any stretch of time when I didn't, at least for a little bit, feel a little more stressed out than I should be. So with my tenure as an over-worrier I have some ideas about that 'worry' actually is.

I posit that worrying is actually just thinking that causes a negative emotional reaction. There is no real distinction between thinking and worrying, worrying just happens when:

- we're thinking
- we have a serious problem to think about that makes us feel bad

And is amplified when:
- our physiology is in a sub-optimal state (depression, physical lethargy, over-caffeinated etc)

And so with this definition in mind it's not really possible to just not worry as a mental trick, instead it's only possible by moving into a healthy physical/material/mental state. Basically worry is a function of your internal and external conditions, and not a mode of being you can turn on and off.

What are your thoughts?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think you hit on the key word when you said "emotional."

Life is thinking and doing. Worrying has absolutely no effect on the outcome of those decisions and actions. Lately I have been trying to key in when I'm simply being emotional. The other half of the household worries very little compared to me but she is very emotional. That one has me stumped, but keeping my emotional state in check, and subsequent behavior, seems to be freeing up more time, allowing me to get more done. So less emotionalism works for me.

 

[abaddon]

We're naturally watchful... you've heard about how we'll instinctively interpret a rustling noise as a dangerous animal, because optimism can get you bit or eaten. One way or another, that wariness might get "amplified" some.

What to do? If we can't get rid of thoughts, we can dissociate from them. They are, after all, "stories". You know it's not a dangerous animal, it's just thoughts about possible "threats". Just imaginations of worst-case scenarios causing the sort of distress as if a tiger were lurking about. It sounds over-simple, but ultimately, since you cannot stop thinking, that leaves people with learning to not let thinking always have central place within awareness. It is an option to let thoughts go past like clouds in the sky. They must pass... there's no choice in that because that's what thoughts and imaginations do. So let them do what they do, but don't invest energy while they're passing by and that way the pattern of their recurrence will weaken in time.

There are hundreds of meditation books packed with suggestions on how to learn to do that. A starting place might go like this: just note the passing mental event: "A thought. A worry. An imagination". And then, as in sitting meditation, after noting the distraction go back to attending to the present. No pressure, no hurry, no "shoulds" or "musts" in it.

"Just don't worry" is bad advice. But then so would be advice to "move into a healthy state". Now the person's worried about how unhealthy or sub-optimal their state is, and about how she must "move" into a "healthy state". I'm presenting a view from mindfulness therapies. In this view, it's the judgments that screw people up. "Oh no, a headache, it'll affect my performance today and I need to get rid of it" = worry. "I'm unhealthy so I need to get healthy" = worry. Why not instead just relax and let "states" come and go (as they must) without carrying "you" along with them?

 

[rousseau]

Why not instead just relax and let "states" come and go (as they must) without carrying "you" along with them?

I find this thought interesting because I hear it a lot, and sometimes wonder if I'm a bit outside the norm there.

There are times when I'll have a completely and firmly irrational thought, and just let it pass by, and yet when I have a very real, important problem that I need to deal with my mind can't let it go. Counter-intuitively, this seems to have led me to a pretty successful life as the over-paranoia has ensured I notice/solve problems more efficiently. And yet I wonder how other people experience this kind of thing, as most people I come across don't seem to worry about their problems with the same intensity.

I wonder if it's a matter of the speed at which a person thinks. Lots of thoughts, more rumination, fewer thoughts, less rumination. On my paternal side there's a history of anxiety and substance abuse to quell 'over-thinking'. Not something any of us have ever been good at letting 'come and go' outside of literally slowing down our mind.

 

[rousseau]

I think you hit on the key word when you said "emotional."

Life is thinking and doing. Worrying has absolutely no effect on the outcome of those decisions and actions. Lately I have been trying to key in when I'm simply being emotional. The other half of the household worries very little compared to me but she is very emotional. That one has me stumped, but keeping my emotional state in check, and subsequent behavior, seems to be freeing up more time, allowing me to get more done. So less emotionalism works for me.

Being someone who over-worries, these days I tell myself that it's a normal part of life put there so I notice the things to make decisions and take action about. Thus far the only thing that truly eases the worry is making the problems cease to be a problem.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think you hit on the key word when you said "emotional."

Life is thinking and doing. Worrying has absolutely no effect on the outcome of those decisions and actions. Lately I have been trying to key in when I'm simply being emotional. The other half of the household worries very little compared to me but she is very emotional. That one has me stumped, but keeping my emotional state in check, and subsequent behavior, seems to be freeing up more time, allowing me to get more done. So less emotionalism works for me.

Being someone who over-worries, these days I tell myself that it's a normal part of life put there so I notice the things to make decisions and take action about. Thus far the only thing that truly eases the worry is making the problems cease to be a problem.

100% agree. I can even remember my father saying that worry changes nothing, and he was certainly a compulsive worrier.

About ten years ago I stopped using caffeine and other stimulants for health reasons. That helped me tremendously. I still worry more than I would prefer, but it is much easier to handle. abaddon gives good advice.

 

[rousseau]

I think you hit on the key word when you said "emotional."

Life is thinking and doing. Worrying has absolutely no effect on the outcome of those decisions and actions. Lately I have been trying to key in when I'm simply being emotional. The other half of the household worries very little compared to me but she is very emotional. That one has me stumped, but keeping my emotional state in check, and subsequent behavior, seems to be freeing up more time, allowing me to get more done. So less emotionalism works for me.

Being someone who over-worries, these days I tell myself that it's a normal part of life put there so I notice the things to make decisions and take action about. Thus far the only thing that truly eases the worry is making the problems cease to be a problem.

100% agree. I can even remember my father saying that worry changes nothing, and he was certainly a compulsive worrier.

About ten years ago I stopped using caffeine and other stimulants for health reasons. That helped me tremendously. I still worry more than I would prefer, but it is much easier to handle. abaddon gives good advice.

I recall you giving this advice before and I actually followed it at the time. Worked out well for me too, but occasionally I burn myself with over-consumption. Think I need to lay down a hard 'max 1 coffee per day' rule, because no coffee at all is a non-starter.

 

[abaddon]

Why not instead just relax and let "states" come and go (as they must) without carrying "you" along with them?

I find this thought interesting because I hear it a lot, and sometimes wonder if I'm a bit outside the norm there.

I doubt it. My familiarity with meditation comes from also being inclined to overthinking, rumination and worry. And I think mindfulness practices could help everyone, whether with relaxation, or being more generally aware, or increasing curiosity and wonder at being, and so much else.

... Thus far the only thing that truly eases the worry is making the problems cease to be a problem.

It motivates you to get the problems solved. That's good. But there's "overthinking" that happens needlessly because you'd rather solve the problems without stress piled on top?

If your mind niggles at you more than other person's minds niggle at them, then my advice still applies and especially because you're not good at it. I didn't mean to replace "Just don't worry" with "Just relax and let worries come and go". We can learn to dis-identify from the stress-inducing thinking, to gain a distance from it and defuse the energy of it. It takes time and practice though.

 

[Treedbear]

... Think I need to lay down a hard 'max 1 coffee per day' rule, because no coffee at all is a non-starter.

I drink 2 -3 cups of half-caff per day but I make it myself and like it strong.

 

[rousseau]

And I think mindfulness practices could help everyone, whether with relaxation, or being more generally aware, or increasing curiosity and wonder at being, and so much else.

What kind of practices are you referring to? Care to direct an over-worrier in this direction?

 

[rousseau]

... Think I need to lay down a hard 'max 1 coffee per day' rule, because no coffee at all is a non-starter.

I drink 2 -3 cups of half-caff per day but I make it myself and like it strong.

I buy freshly roasted beans and brew out of a french press or stove-top, ends up being a pretty strong (and extremely satisfying) coffee.

The logical thing to do would be to switch permanently to dark roast, but I just can't seem to stick to it. The best I got these days is more awareness of how much I'm drinking.

 

[ruby sparks]

All of my life I've been an over-worrier. At 32 I can't remember any stretch of time when I didn't, at least for a little bit, feel a little more stressed out than I should be. So with my tenure as an over-worrier I have some ideas about that 'worry' actually is.

I posit that worrying is actually just thinking that causes a negative emotional reaction. There is no real distinction between thinking and worrying, worrying just happens when:

- we're thinking
- we have a serious problem to think about that makes us feel bad

And is amplified when:
- our physiology is in a sub-optimal state (depression, physical lethargy, over-caffeinated etc)

And so with this definition in mind it's not really possible to just not worry as a mental trick, instead it's only possible by moving into a healthy physical/material/mental state. Basically worry is a function of your internal and external conditions, and not a mode of being you can turn on and off.

What are your thoughts?

I have lots of thoughts and indeed was thinking about starting a thread on this myself.

Partly because I recently read a study which suggested that people who live in the here and now (or in the experiment, focus their thoughts on the moment) are happier and worry less.

Which is not surprising and probably accounts for why meditation is effective.

I too can be a bit of a worrier, but not as much as I used to be. If it holds out hope for you, I have found that one of the great things about getting older is worrying a lot less. So you might have that to look forward to. And I certainly wish I had worried less as a young man and it's the 1st thing I would say to my young self if I could go back and talk to him.

 

[abaddon]

What kind of practices are you referring to? Care to direct an over-worrier in this direction?

I can recommend books. The kind of practices are anything that shifts the attention outward, so that eventually whatever it is that finds the noise inside the head such a pressing concern lets up and loses interest in that noise and the noise quiets down.

After years of trying sitting meditation on and off, I've had the most fun with Douglas Harding's "headless way" experiments. Fun is good motivation, and quick and notable results are too.

"Headless way", "headlessness". Sounds damn bizarre, right? But it's just "test this and see if it isn't your experience" experiments. My mention of "increasing curiosity and wonder" was specifically my response to working through this book. However, some people react with "So what? I'm (intellectually) aware this stuff and it does nothing for me", so you're mileage may vary.

It's got Sam Harris's endorsement if that helps. He said in a podcast he finds "how Douglas Harding and Richard Lang talk about 'seeing' is thrilling". Or start with Harris's Waking Up. I only skimmed it, but I saw there are a few suggested meditations mixed in with the jibber-jabber about science and his opinions on things.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy has "defusion" techniques. This page repeats what I've been saying, but makes the point clearer: http://anxietyhappens.com/AcceptanceCommitment/acceptance.htm#you_are_not_your_anxiety

For books with defusion and other "psychological tricks", I only ever read Russ Harris' The Happiness Trap. But Chad LeJeune's The Worry Trap looks more specific to the topic.

ACT adds to defusion some techniques for defining one's values and setting goals to get them done without stressing. It's called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy for this reason. You said you can resolve worry by doing the thing you're worried about. That's different from worrying over things you cannot do anything about. So, maybe there's procrastination mixed in? If so then ACT addresses this too.

Here's an example defusion technique. Say maybe there's an internal voice (and if you're one of those persons who think they "don't hear voices" then you can, in imagination, give the distressing feeling a voice and listen to what it's saying). But say there's a critical voice inside that is niggling at you, inducing stress, and maybe it goes something like this: "Do it, get it done, you're lazy, things are going to shit cuz of what a lay-about you are!" This sort of thing can be defused by giving it Donald Duck's voice to take the wind out of its sails. That makes it easy to dismiss the pressure to "hurry and get it done!"

But if you pick only one book, pick the one about the headless way! Make it fun and lose your head and how filled-up with thinking, thinking, thinking it is.

Or buy nothing and just sit and meditate. No need to sit in a lotus pose, any attentive posture (non-conducive to sleep) is fine. There's no "must" pressure to perform; it's a vacation from mentation and not a chore. Many people complain "I sit there and I can't concentrate! It's just seconds and I get distracted and I have to start all over!" But however many the distracted moments, becoming mindful of them and gently returning to attention is a perfect performance. The only way to fuck up is to get judgmental and think "I'm screwing this up!" And if that happens, be dispassionately mindful of your mind doing that... and there again it's success! And this way eventually the mind learns to let unhelpfully distressing thoughts "come and go" while staying calm(er).

 

[rousseau]

Thanks for the detailed reply, going to save your post and dig into it soon.

I've always thought I had a handle on mindfulness, but as another poster here once mentioned to me it wasn't until they got explicit and deliberate about it that it started to make a real difference. Rather than relying on kind of half-formed, inwardly produced techniques, which is what I'm doing now.

Anyway, I'm definitely willing to try some new methods, because my brain being clouded up is starting to get old.

 

[bilby]

Worry is the inability to stop thinking about something which you are nevertheless unable to act upon.

The cure is to eliminate boredom and inactivity. If you are fully engaged in doing something - whether work or entertainment - you can't worry about anything.

Of course, that's easier said than done. Many modern entertainments are not hugely engaging, and leave room for worry. And often we have periods where we must wait for others, but cannot justifiably start a different task or activity - and then worry creeps in.

My preference is to read a really good book.

 

[rousseau]

Worry is the inability to stop thinking about something which you are nevertheless unable to act upon.

The cure is to eliminate boredom and inactivity. If you are fully engaged in doing something - whether work or entertainment - you can't worry about anything.

Of course, that's easier said than done. Many modern entertainments are not hugely engaging, and leave room for worry. And often we have periods where we must wait for others, but cannot justifiably start a different task or activity - and then worry creeps in.

My preference is to read a really good book.

Yep. Ten years ago free-time wasn't so bad for me as none of my friends had families, kids, jobs. You could have outings every weekend, consistent conversations with people, the whole nine yards. These days my friends without families are the exception, rather than the norm, so anymore my weekends and days off are filled with .. what, what, what are you gonna do.

Sounds inviting if you have hobbies you're enthralled about, but nope.. don't really have those either. These days my job might actually be the more pleasant aspect of my life as it keeps my mind occupied.

 

[bilby]

Worry is the inability to stop thinking about something which you are nevertheless unable to act upon.

The cure is to eliminate boredom and inactivity. If you are fully engaged in doing something - whether work or entertainment - you can't worry about anything.

Of course, that's easier said than done. Many modern entertainments are not hugely engaging, and leave room for worry. And often we have periods where we must wait for others, but cannot justifiably start a different task or activity - and then worry creeps in.

My preference is to read a really good book.

Yep. Ten years ago free-time wasn't so bad for me as none of my friends had families, kids, jobs. You could have outings every weekend, consistent conversations with people, the whole nine yards. These days my friends without families are the exception, rather than the norm, so anymore my weekends and days off are filled with .. what, what, what are you gonna do.

Sounds inviting if you have hobbies you're enthralled about, but nope.. don't really have those either. These days my job might actually be the more pleasant aspect of my life as it keeps my mind occupied.

Well there are plenty of hobbies you could throw yourself into. Or you could do volunteer work, if you have a lot of time to kill. I don't know what there is in your area, but around here there's tons of options, from the physically demanding (Rural Fire Service, State Emergency Service), through the caring (Hospital visitor, Prison visitor), to the more intellectual (Justice of the Peace, Political activist).

I brew beer; And I don't have time to be bored

Though living in the sub-tropics, I do worry about having enough fridges

 

[rousseau]

Worry is the inability to stop thinking about something which you are nevertheless unable to act upon.

The cure is to eliminate boredom and inactivity. If you are fully engaged in doing something - whether work or entertainment - you can't worry about anything.

Of course, that's easier said than done. Many modern entertainments are not hugely engaging, and leave room for worry. And often we have periods where we must wait for others, but cannot justifiably start a different task or activity - and then worry creeps in.

My preference is to read a really good book.

Yep. Ten years ago free-time wasn't so bad for me as none of my friends had families, kids, jobs. You could have outings every weekend, consistent conversations with people, the whole nine yards. These days my friends without families are the exception, rather than the norm, so anymore my weekends and days off are filled with .. what, what, what are you gonna do.

Sounds inviting if you have hobbies you're enthralled about, but nope.. don't really have those either. These days my job might actually be the more pleasant aspect of my life as it keeps my mind occupied.

Well there are plenty of hobbies you could throw yourself into. Or you could do volunteer work, if you have a lot of time to kill. I don't know what there is in your area, but around here there's tons of options, from the physically demanding (Rural Fire Service, State Emergency Service), through the caring (Hospital visitor, Prison visitor), to the more intellectual (Justice of the Peace, Political activist).

I brew beer; And I don't have time to be bored

Though living in the sub-tropics, I do worry about having enough fridges

We'll be spending the winter getting the house fixed up with our income that's no longer going to the wedding or honeymoon, so that should keep us busy enough for now.

Outside of that I'm like you: I read. Unfortunately I'm also having a tough time finding reading material I'm overly interested in these days, but with enough effort the libraries at Western University seem to be keeping me afloat for now.

 

[untermensche]

All of my life I've been an over-worrier. At 32 I can't remember any stretch of time when I didn't, at least for a little bit, feel a little more stressed out than I should be. So with my tenure as an over-worrier I have some ideas about that 'worry' actually is.

I posit that worrying is actually just thinking that causes a negative emotional reaction. There is no real distinction between thinking and worrying, worrying just happens when:

- we're thinking
- we have a serious problem to think about that makes us feel bad

And is amplified when:
- our physiology is in a sub-optimal state (depression, physical lethargy, over-caffeinated etc)

And so with this definition in mind it's not really possible to just not worry as a mental trick, instead it's only possible by moving into a healthy physical/material/mental state. Basically worry is a function of your internal and external conditions, and not a mode of being you can turn on and off.

What are your thoughts?

Worry is in the mind. It is a way to approach the world, extremely cautiously, ever alert for trouble and even imagining trouble that is not there. The ever alert squirrel that jumps at the slightest noise. Jumps at the rustling of leaves.

It is a survival mechanism. But in the modern world it is mostly not needed and causes stress in humans.

The worry in the mind causes a physiological change to the brain and to the body.

Depression is not a problem with the brain.

It is a problem with the mind.

That is why talk therapy works as well as drugs.

 

[steve_bank]

I read the Dali Lama's book on meditation. I'd say he has a true understanding. A true teacher in the classic sense. Bhuddism is about untangling yourself from the mental connections that bring you pain and misery.

“Happiness is not something ready-made. It comes from your own actions.” ~ Dalai Lamatps

“Our ultimate aim in seeking more wealth is a sense of satisfaction, of happiness. But the very basis of seeking more is a feeling of not having enough, a feeling of discontentment. That feeling of discontentment, of wanting more and more and more, doesn’t arise from the inherent desirability of the objects we are seeking but rather from our own mental state.” ~ Dalai Lama

https://www.movemequotes.com/15-dalai-lama-quotes/