What is the Trumper's vision of the country if they had their way?

[Trausti]

This thread reminds me of the observation that partisans have little idea of the opposition so they make ridiculous caricatures.

 

[ideologyhunter]

It's also missing the urgent need to rescue children from the Democrats' sex slave rings. (Last poll I saw, 56% of Repubs think Q-Anon is true or partly true.)
This is what we're dealing with, having this party in the state to which it has fallen.


(Responding to posts 16 through 20)

 

[laughing dog]

Also, it's so far from reality,

It only seems that way to you. And it might to me as well if I happened to live in an environment where I was only exposed to a highly biased liberal slant. Everything is relative.

Going back to commodity money (the gold and/or silver standard) is economic madness. While I admit there is plethora of intelligence agencies, combing the FBI (domestic criminal justice) with the CIA (foreign intelligence and spying) is a recipe for totalitarian state.

I have no idea what is meant by a "fake war". I do not understand how competing with an undemocratic country has anything to do with keeping the US a democracy. Nor do I understand the point about de-focusing on low value agricultural (which is growing basic food stuffs).

 

[laughing dog]

This thread reminds me of the observation that partisans have little idea of the opposition so they make ridiculous caricatures.

I am sure the irony of that observation is totally lost on you.

 

[Trausti]

This thread reminds me of the observation that partisans have little idea of the opposition so they make ridiculous caricatures.

I am sure the irony of that observation is totally lost on you.

There’s no irony; you’re just full of hate.

 

[Trausti]

RVonse presumably voted for Trump. So did I. This thread doesn’t describe me at all.

 

[RVonse]

Going back to commodity money (the gold and/or silver standard) is economic madness.

At present, the fed is at interest zero, while very soon likely to lose its independence with the US treasury. They have already stated they will buy whatever is necessary and some say that direct stimulus from the treasury is next. The graphs of deficit spending are looking very much like a hockey stick and many are wondering how the fiat dollar can survive as a reserve currency any longer. If the fiat dollar does survive, it will be the first in the history of world to do so. If gold is economic madness you think it is, China and other world banks would not be attempting to acquire it at this time. JP Morgan said it best, " only gold is real money and everything else is just a debt paper."

But regardless of whether gold plays a role or not, it is hard to argue that price valuation is no longer working when interest rates are zero or negative. And for free market capitalism to work efficiently and effectively, asset price valuation has to reflect true value.

While I admit there is plethora of intelligence agencies, combing the FBI (domestic criminal justice) with the CIA (foreign intelligence and spying) is a recipe for totalitarian state.

Then if they can not be combined then at least some sharing of resources.

I have no idea what is meant by a "fake war".

It is a war solely for the benefit of the military industrial complex. It does not really show benefit to the US, it kills many people, and enriches special interests. And (like Bush's Iraq war) is sold over to the public by our propaganda media.

I do not understand how competing with an undemocratic country has anything to do with keeping the US a democracy.

If democracy does not compete economically the totalitarian state of China wins. And our democracy gives way to them one way or the other. They need not ever beat us in a hot war because they will simply "own us".

Nor do I understand the point about de-focusing on low value agricultural (which is growing basic food stuffs).

Rich middle class countries are countries with high value manufacturing jobs; Germany, Japan, the US (in the 1960's). And poor middle class countries are countries with low agricultural economies (Africa). All an agricultural economy can do is pull it out of the ground and/or grow it. Then send it to somewhere else who adds the high value to those inputs by technology leverage. Obviously, we want high value jobs and the economy to compete with China and the rest of the globe.

 

[KeepTalking]

Since this one seems serious, it could use a dose of reality in as far as what the Trumper will actually get.

Here goes:

1. America first and closely follow what is actually written in our Constitution

You will get Trump first, and he is already wiping his ass with the Constitution.

2. Disengage from globalism and get out of all the fake wars. No new wars started unless Congress declares them (see#1 above)

You will get more of Trump sucking up to dictators, and ignoring their atrocities, though I am not sure what you mean by "fake wars". Plenty of wars get started without Congress declaring them, but we are already at the point where the US cannot start a war without approval from Congress.

3. Lower income taxes for the middle class and higher taxes for the ultra rich

Trump has already significantly lowered the tax burden for the ultra rich, and gave the lower income brackets a pittance. I actually paid more in taxes after Trump's tax cut, because he did away with most itemized deductions.

4. Everyone is given equal opportunity but no one is moved closer to the finish line. No racism, no sexism, no identity politics and no affirmative action anywhere.
No favoritism for anyone and everyone succeeds or fails according their ability.

Trump only wants to move himself, his family, and his most loyal cronies closer to the finish line. He is an obvious sexist, only judging women by their looks, and he has profited both monetarily and politically from racism. "Everyone succeeds or fails according (to) their ability"? Even the disabled? Oh, btw, Trump has shown his contempt for the disabled as well.

5. Smaller government. Combine the NSA and TSA. Combine the FBI and CIA. Crusade to remove many layers of administrative bureaucracy.

What you will get is a smaller government because the only people who will be allowed to work for it are those who prove their loyalty to Trump, or are directly related to him. It will also be a revolving door of incompetence, as it has been for the last 4 years.

6. Use the money saved on #2 above and focus on advancement and acquisition of high value manufacturing. And de-focus on low value agriculture and mineral/oil mining industries.

I'm not sure what money we saved on #2, but I am sure that money will somehow make it's way into Tump's pockets. I will note that advocating that the government own the means of production makes one a socialist. Also, Trump has been pretty focused on mineral/oil mining industries, so I am not sure why you think he change there. Finally, I think agriculture is pretty damn important, but if you would rather eat the products of high value manufacturing than the products of agriculture, then please be my guest.

7. See number #1 above, set up a task force how to best compete with the CCP in order to ensure continuing democracy, freedom, and liberty.

Okay, taking a look at #1 above, I see that what you will actually get is Trump leveraging relations with China to enrich his own family, since his family already sources all of the products they shill from there.

8. See number #1 above, anchor our reserve dollar back to real money (perhaps gold again) and make it competitive with newer block chain technology.

Gold standard and block chain? I can't even...

 

[laughing dog]

This thread reminds me of the observation that partisans have little idea of the opposition so they make ridiculous caricatures.

I am sure the irony of that observation is totally lost on you.

There’s no irony; you’re just full of hate.

Thanks for confirming my observation and for your projection.

 

[laughing dog]

At present, the fed is at interest zero, while very soon likely to lose its independence with the US treasury. They have already stated they will buy whatever is necessary and some say that direct stimulus from the treasury is next. The graphs of deficit spending are looking very much like a hockey stick and many are wondering how the fiat dollar can survive as a reserve currency any longer. If the fiat dollar does survive, it will be the first in the history of world to do so. If gold is economic madness you think it is, China and other world banks would not be attempting to acquire it at this time. JP Morgan said it best, " only gold is real money and everything else is just a debt paper."

Adopting the gold standard means the money supply is controlled by whomever has the most gold in the ground (which is not the US). Maintaining a fixed price of gold means the monetary policy will be pro-cyclical - it will make inflation worse during a boom and a recession worse during a downturn.

But regardless of whether gold plays a role or not, it is hard to argue that price valuation is no longer working when interest rates are zero or negative. And for free market capitalism to work efficiently and effectively, asset price valuation has to reflect true value.

True value is the market value and nothing else.
Then if they can not be combined then at least some sharing of resources.

It is a war solely for the benefit of the military industrial complex. It does not really show benefit to the US, it kills many people, and enriches special interests. And (like Bush's Iraq war) is sold over to the public by our propaganda media.

Every war in history has enriched a special interest. But I agree that there have been conflicts that do not appear to be in the US best national interests.

If democracy does not compete economically the totalitarian state of China wins.

Wins what?

And our democracy gives way to them one way or the other. They need not ever beat us in a hot war because they will simply "own us".

I don't understand that one at all.

Rich middle class countries are countries with high value manufacturing jobs; Germany, Japan, the US (in the 1960's). And poor middle class countries are countries with low agricultural economies (Africa). All an agricultural economy can do is pull it out of the ground and/or grow it. Then send it to somewhere else who adds the high value to those inputs by technology leverage. Obviously, we want high value jobs and the economy to compete with China and the rest of the globe.

You are confusing cause and effect. If you are against globalization and you do not grow food, you die because without food, there is no economy. The US in the 60s had just as much agriculture as it does now.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Well, considering the vast majority of conservatives support overturning valid election results, my guess would be fascism.

 

[RVonse]

Since this one seems serious, it could use a dose of reality in as far as what the Trumper will actually get.

Here goes:



You will get Trump first, and he is already wiping his ass with the Constitution.



You will get more of Trump sucking up to dictators, and ignoring their atrocities, though I am not sure what you mean by "fake wars". Plenty of wars get started without Congress declaring them, but we are already at the point where the US cannot start a war without approval from Congress.

3. Lower income taxes for the middle class and higher taxes for the ultra rich

Trump has already significantly lowered the tax burden for the ultra rich, and gave the lower income brackets a pittance. I actually paid more in taxes after Trump's tax cut, because he did away with most itemized deductions.

4. Everyone is given equal opportunity but no one is moved closer to the finish line. No racism, no sexism, no identity politics and no affirmative action anywhere.
No favoritism for anyone and everyone succeeds or fails according their ability.

Trump only wants to move himself, his family, and his most loyal cronies closer to the finish line. He is an obvious sexist, only judging women by their looks, and he has profited both monetarily and politically from racism. "Everyone succeeds or fails according (to) their ability"? Even the disabled? Oh, btw, Trump has shown his contempt for the disabled as well.

5. Smaller government. Combine the NSA and TSA. Combine the FBI and CIA. Crusade to remove many layers of administrative bureaucracy.

What you will get is a smaller government because the only people who will be allowed to work for it are those who prove their loyalty to Trump, or are directly related to him. It will also be a revolving door of incompetence, as it has been for the last 4 years.

6. Use the money saved on #2 above and focus on advancement and acquisition of high value manufacturing. And de-focus on low value agriculture and mineral/oil mining industries.

I'm not sure what money we saved on #2, but I am sure that money will somehow make it's way into Tump's pockets. I will note that advocating that the government own the means of production makes one a socialist. Also, Trump has been pretty focused on mineral/oil mining industries, so I am not sure why you think he change there. Finally, I think agriculture is pretty damn important, but if you would rather eat the products of high value manufacturing than the products of agriculture, then please be my guest.

7. See number #1 above, set up a task force how to best compete with the CCP in order to ensure continuing democracy, freedom, and liberty.

Okay, taking a look at #1 above, I see that what you will actually get is Trump leveraging relations with China to enrich his own family, since his family already sources all of the products they shill from there.

8. See number #1 above, anchor our reserve dollar back to real money (perhaps gold again) and make it competitive with newer block chain technology.

Gold standard and block chain? I can't even...

Trump was a not the perfect leader for the populist movement, no argument there. He was just the only leader that could lead the populist movement. Everyone else sounded like a republican or a democrat and the populists wanted different.

And yea, you can also pick apart the fact that Trump did not get much done. Yes he had many personal flaws too. But the OP was asking what a Trumpsters vision of the country would be in an ideal world. Obviously that did not happen but thanks to Democrats we really do not know how much of that was due to his incompetence and how much was due to their derailments.

 

[laughing dog]

Since this one seems serious, it could use a dose of reality in as far as what the Trumper will actually get.

Here goes:



You will get Trump first, and he is already wiping his ass with the Constitution.



You will get more of Trump sucking up to dictators, and ignoring their atrocities, though I am not sure what you mean by "fake wars". Plenty of wars get started without Congress declaring them, but we are already at the point where the US cannot start a war without approval from Congress.



Trump has already significantly lowered the tax burden for the ultra rich, and gave the lower income brackets a pittance. I actually paid more in taxes after Trump's tax cut, because he did away with most itemized deductions.



Trump only wants to move himself, his family, and his most loyal cronies closer to the finish line. He is an obvious sexist, only judging women by their looks, and he has profited both monetarily and politically from racism. "Everyone succeeds or fails according (to) their ability"? Even the disabled? Oh, btw, Trump has shown his contempt for the disabled as well.

5. Smaller government. Combine the NSA and TSA. Combine the FBI and CIA. Crusade to remove many layers of administrative bureaucracy.

What you will get is a smaller government because the only people who will be allowed to work for it are those who prove their loyalty to Trump, or are directly related to him. It will also be a revolving door of incompetence, as it has been for the last 4 years.

6. Use the money saved on #2 above and focus on advancement and acquisition of high value manufacturing. And de-focus on low value agriculture and mineral/oil mining industries.

I'm not sure what money we saved on #2, but I am sure that money will somehow make it's way into Tump's pockets. I will note that advocating that the government own the means of production makes one a socialist. Also, Trump has been pretty focused on mineral/oil mining industries, so I am not sure why you think he change there. Finally, I think agriculture is pretty damn important, but if you would rather eat the products of high value manufacturing than the products of agriculture, then please be my guest.

7. See number #1 above, set up a task force how to best compete with the CCP in order to ensure continuing democracy, freedom, and liberty.

Okay, taking a look at #1 above, I see that what you will actually get is Trump leveraging relations with China to enrich his own family, since his family already sources all of the products they shill from there.

8. See number #1 above, anchor our reserve dollar back to real money (perhaps gold again) and make it competitive with newer block chain technology.

Gold standard and block chain? I can't even...

Trump was a not the perfect leader for the populist movement, no argument there. He was just the only leader that could lead the populist movement. Everyone else sounded like a republican or a democrat and the populists wanted different.

And yea, you can also pick apart the fact that Trump did not get much done. Yes he had many personal flaws too. But the OP was asking what a Trumpsters vision of the country would be in an ideal world. Obviously that did not happen but thanks to Democrats we really do not know how much of that was due to his incompetence and how much was due to their derailments.

Trump boasted of his ability to make deals. He even "wrote" a book called "The Art of the Deal". His failures are due to his talents and his actions.

 

[ZiprHead]

RVonse presumably voted for Trump. So did I. This thread doesn’t describe me at all.

So tell us what you envision a trump country to be instead of whining in the corner.

 

[ZiprHead]

Rich middle class countries are countries with high value manufacturing jobs; Germany, Japan, the US (in the 1960's). And poor middle class countries are countries with low agricultural economies (Africa). All an agricultural economy can do is pull it out of the ground and/or grow it. Then send it to somewhere else who adds the high value to those inputs by technology leverage. Obviously, we want high value jobs and the economy to compete with China and the rest of the globe.

This I agree with somewhat. However, our trade deficit with China is higher now than it's ever been.

How the hell do you expect people to respond to your post when you smash everything together like that?

 

[Elixir]

He even "wrote" a book called "The Art of the Deal".

Minor niggle: no, he didn't. It's questionable that he ever even read it.

 

[KeepTalking]

Since this one seems serious, it could use a dose of reality in as far as what the Trumper will actually get.

Here goes:



You will get Trump first, and he is already wiping his ass with the Constitution.



You will get more of Trump sucking up to dictators, and ignoring their atrocities, though I am not sure what you mean by "fake wars". Plenty of wars get started without Congress declaring them, but we are already at the point where the US cannot start a war without approval from Congress.



Trump has already significantly lowered the tax burden for the ultra rich, and gave the lower income brackets a pittance. I actually paid more in taxes after Trump's tax cut, because he did away with most itemized deductions.



Trump only wants to move himself, his family, and his most loyal cronies closer to the finish line. He is an obvious sexist, only judging women by their looks, and he has profited both monetarily and politically from racism. "Everyone succeeds or fails according (to) their ability"? Even the disabled? Oh, btw, Trump has shown his contempt for the disabled as well.

5. Smaller government. Combine the NSA and TSA. Combine the FBI and CIA. Crusade to remove many layers of administrative bureaucracy.

What you will get is a smaller government because the only people who will be allowed to work for it are those who prove their loyalty to Trump, or are directly related to him. It will also be a revolving door of incompetence, as it has been for the last 4 years.

6. Use the money saved on #2 above and focus on advancement and acquisition of high value manufacturing. And de-focus on low value agriculture and mineral/oil mining industries.

I'm not sure what money we saved on #2, but I am sure that money will somehow make it's way into Tump's pockets. I will note that advocating that the government own the means of production makes one a socialist. Also, Trump has been pretty focused on mineral/oil mining industries, so I am not sure why you think he change there. Finally, I think agriculture is pretty damn important, but if you would rather eat the products of high value manufacturing than the products of agriculture, then please be my guest.

7. See number #1 above, set up a task force how to best compete with the CCP in order to ensure continuing democracy, freedom, and liberty.

Okay, taking a look at #1 above, I see that what you will actually get is Trump leveraging relations with China to enrich his own family, since his family already sources all of the products they shill from there.

8. See number #1 above, anchor our reserve dollar back to real money (perhaps gold again) and make it competitive with newer block chain technology.

Gold standard and block chain? I can't even...

Trump was a not the perfect leader for the populist movement, no argument there. He was just the only leader that could lead the populist movement. Everyone else sounded like a republican or a democrat and the populists wanted different.

I am glad that you are referring to Trump's presidency in the past tense, most Trumpers can't bring themselves to that.

Trump has never been a perfect anything, and he has quite possibly been the worst leader this country has ever had. He is not even a populist leader, as he lost the popular vote in both races, and is among the most elite of the elite. Biden is much more populist than Trump, and while I am sure his presidency will be far from perfect, I find it hard to believe that it could be as terrible as Trump's has been.

And yea, you can also pick apart the fact that Trump did not get much done.

The fact that Trump did not get more done is probably the best thing about the Trump presidency. I would prefer if he had gotten far less done, as less harm would have come to this country.

Yes he had many personal flaws too.

That has to be in contention for the understatement of the year, and we have 360 days to go.

But the OP was asking what a Trumpsters vision of the country would be in an ideal world.

It is a quibble, but the OP makes no mention of an ideal world.

Obviously that did not happen but thanks to Democrats we really do not know how much of that was due to his incompetence and how much was due to their derailments.

If only they could have derailed more. Trump's incompetence has been on full display for four years, there is really no excuse to not recognize it for what it is.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

That's what you think trumpers want?

Yes. It is also called populism and has its roots with the tea party.

It's called being delusional.

Well, considering the vast majority of conservatives support overturning valid election results, my guess would be fascism.

I think Nazi Germany less armed conflict with other nations is their vision of peace and prosperity. Trump is a savior that rules by terror and appropriates any opposition's wealth for the good of the chosen.

 

[RVonse]

Adopting the gold standard means the money supply is controlled by whomever has the most gold in the ground (which is not the US).

Makes no difference who has the gold in the ground, it is who has the gold in their central banks. Having physical gold became so strategic and important that in 1971, Nixon was forced by France to default on original bretton woods terms. And had he not defaulted when he did, all gold saved in the US would be gone now.

Maintaining a fixed price of gold means the monetary policy will be pro-cyclical - it will make inflation worse during a boom and a recession worse during a downturn.

I think I agree with this. We do disagree whether pro-cyclical is bad. I believe capitalism requires cycles of boom or bust in order to be efficient, so the weak badly managed firms go out of business The dead wood has to be cleared out in such a way that wage employees are protected though. but the dead wood has to be cleared out or many zombies will hurt the economy as a whole.

True value is the market value and nothing else.

Market value of many assets have been drastically warped by artificial fed policy. Asset prices (such as homes in California) are bubbled completely out of wack because low interest causes competition from lower wage earners who should not be in the market. The price to earning ratio of the stock market is telling us the same thing with those assets as well.

Wins what?
I don't understand that one at all.

Economic power and wealth is extremely important. As the CCP becomes wealthy and powerful they are able to control and influence the US government with bribes and corruption. They also are buying up Hollywood with the purpose to sway our population towards their ideology. Eventually the US will become a colony of the CCP just as we were a colony of Britain before our independence.

If you are against globalization and you do not grow food, you die because without food, there is no economy.

The difference is that fair trade is fine just not globalization.

The US in the 60s had just as much agriculture as it does now.

But our trade surplus has vastly changed since 1971.

 

[Patooka]

RVonse presumably voted for Trump. So did I. This thread doesn’t describe me at all.

So tell us what you envision a trump country to be instead of whining in the corner.

It's far easier to sit on the sidelines and snipe than to actually advocate something. Just look at libertarians. In short, you knew that weren't going to get a response for asking such a question from a Trump supporter. It's just not in their nature.

I'll bite, though. Most Trumpsuckers fantasize about the make believe 1980's 'murica that Chuck Norris/Steven Seagal et al promote. That's their fantasy. Jeans, pickup trucks with flags on the bonnet and white people as far as the eye can see. And guns. Lots and lots of guns because that is sensible. That is Trumpland.