Where are the libertarians in the coronavirus pandemic?

[lpetrich]

Trump, Socialism, and the Coronavirus Epidemic - The Atlantic

There Are No Libertarians in an Epidemic

Donald Trump is running for reelection on an anti-socialist message. But the COVID-19 outbreak demonstrates the emptiness of ideological labels.

Even as Kudlow spoke, the Trump administration was taking aggressive measures to halt the epidemic’s spread—measures that rely on the sort of big-government intervention that was a CPAC bogeyman. ...

Speaking to reporters at the White House yesterday, Trump said he wants to shore up businesses and aid people whose finances have been hit. “We’re going to be working with … a lot of companies so they don’t get penalized for something that’s not their fault,” he said. ...

“That’s not free-market capitalism,” says Jean Cohen, a political-theory professor at Columbia University, referring to the measures the White House has contemplated as the virus spreads. “You can choose the term: It’s regulated capitalism, or it’s the interventionist state, or it’s democratic socialism. If you want to serve the public good instead of private profit making, you need government to come in and make sure that’s done.”

Whatever the term, the Trump administration’s handling of the outbreak amounts to government activism in the face of a national crisis. It’s nothing new and, as may well prove the case this time around, it’s often necessary. ...

In Trump’s case, he may try to have it both ways: using socialism as a convenient campaign slogan, while battling the coronavirus with extraordinary measures comparable to what other modern presidents have done to beat back a crisis. Critics have panned his methods so far. As infections spread, he’s kept up his golf outings and fundraising schedule, while downplaying a virus that could have reached his outstretched hand: At CPAC, he greeted Matt Schlapp, the chairman of the American Conservative Union, who was in contact with the infected participant.

What libertarians would do in response to coronavirus claiming that libertarians support:

1. Praise for the free market's role in keeping day-to-day life functional.
2. Advice of personal responsibility.
3. Condemnation of counterproductive regulations and lack of transparency.
4. Rejection of corporate bailouts and price controls.
5. Mixed feelings on emergency social welfare.
6. Skepticism of mandatory lockdowns, travel bans, and the like.
7. Insistence on temporary changes.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Where are the libertarians? We weren't elected to anything, so we aren't making any policy.

But suddenly, all the libertarians not in office not making policy is proof that everyone stops being a libertarian when those in office make various policies.

If you want to know what policies we would enact, we would have to be in office. You are asking for what you know doesn't exist.

 

[ZiprHead]

They're in their secret island mountain lair, rubbing their hands together, and calling out "My plan is working! It's WORKING!!! BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!".

 

[ZiprHead]

Where are the libertarians? We weren't elected to anything, so we aren't making any policy.

But suddenly, all the libertarians not in office not making policy is proof that everyone stops being a libertarian when those in office make various policies.

If you want to know what policies we would enact, we would have to be in office. You are asking for what you know doesn't exist.

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians. I suspect you already know this but choose to erect a strawman instead.

What would the libertarian plan be to address this issue?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Where are the libertarians? We weren't elected to anything, so we aren't making any policy.

But suddenly, all the libertarians not in office not making policy is proof that everyone stops being a libertarian when those in office make various policies.

If you want to know what policies we would enact, we would have to be in office. You are asking for what you know doesn't exist.

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[ZiprHead]

Where are the libertarians? We weren't elected to anything, so we aren't making any policy.

But suddenly, all the libertarians not in office not making policy is proof that everyone stops being a libertarian when those in office make various policies.

If you want to know what policies we would enact, we would have to be in office. You are asking for what you know doesn't exist.

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I notice you failed to address the second paragraph.

 

[ZiprHead]

U.S. Representatives

Ron Paul

Thomas Massie
Representative Justin Amash of Michigan – Chairman of the Liberty Caucus; left Republican Party in 2019 to become an Independent.[8]
Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky – described as "a Northern Kentucky Republican with libertarian leanings,"[9] Massie is a "self-styled libertarian"[10] who has received libertarian support, although he has also described himself as a "'constitutional conservative' within the Republican Party."[11]
Representative Warren Davidson of Ohio.
Former Representative Raúl Labrador of Idaho[12]
Former Representative Dana Rohrabacher of California[13]
Former Representative Mark Sanford of South Carolina (also a former governor of South Carolina) – often described as a figure with libertarian views;[14] claimed to have turned down an offer from Libertarian Party presidential nominee Gary Johnson to be his vice presidential running mate in the 2016 election.[15]
Former Representative Bob Barr of Georgia[16]
Former Representative Helen Chenoweth-Hage, of Idaho.
Former Representative Kerry Bentivolio of Michigan[17]
Former Representative Connie Mack IV of Florida – described as "a staunch fiscal conservative...with libertarian tendencies."[18]
Former Representative Ron Paul of Texas – longstanding Libertarian Republican icon; unsuccessfully ran for president in 1988 as the Libertarian nominee.[19][20]
Former Representatives Howard H. Buffett of Nebraska, Ralph W. Gwinn of New York, Frederick C. Smith of Ohio, and H.R. Gross of Iowa – members of the House described by Murray Rothbard as "extreme right ... solidly isolationist and opposed to foreign wars and interventions, and roughly free-market and libertarian in domestic affairs."[21]

U.S. Senators

Rand Paul
Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky – is sometimes regarded as libertarian-leaning,[22] although David Boaz of the Cato Institute notes that "Paul doesn't claim to be a libertarian, and he takes positions that many libertarians disagree with."[23]
Senator Mike Lee of Utah – described as an economic and civil libertarian.[24][25]
Former Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona[26]
Former Senator George Frisbie Hoar of Massachusetts[27]

 Libertarian Republican

 

[J842P]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I notice you failed to address the second paragraph.

Let them die. That is always the libertarian plan for healthcare.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Where are the libertarians? We weren't elected to anything, so we aren't making any policy.

But suddenly, all the libertarians not in office not making policy is proof that everyone stops being a libertarian when those in office make various policies.

If you want to know what policies we would enact, we would have to be in office. You are asking for what you know doesn't exist.

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Jason: are you saying that there aren't any republicans who call themselves libertarian?

 

[skepticalbip]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Jason: are you saying that there aren't any republicans who call themselves libertarian?

There are a very few libertarian congress critters who caucus with the Republican caucus. Sorta like there are socialist congress critters who caucus with the Democrat caucus. For example Rand Paul caucuses with Republicans and Bernie Sanders caucuses with the Democrats.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

U.S. Representatives

Thomas Massie
Representative Justin Amash of Michigan – Chairman of the Liberty Caucus; left Republican Party in 2019 to become an Independent.[8]
Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky – described as "a Northern Kentucky Republican with libertarian leanings,"[9] Massie is a "self-styled libertarian"[10] who has received libertarian support, although he has also described himself as a "'constitutional conservative' within the Republican Party."[11]
Representative Warren Davidson of Ohio.

U.S. Senators

Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky – is sometimes regarded as libertarian-leaning,[22] although David Boaz of the Cato Institute notes that "Paul doesn't claim to be a libertarian, and he takes positions that many libertarians disagree with."[23]
Senator Mike Lee of Utah – described as an economic and civil libertarian.[24][25]

 Libertarian Republican

Let's start by removing anyone not serving right now. Hm, that list isn't as impressive anymore.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

It is clear you believe your own propaganda. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I notice you failed to address the second paragraph.

Let them die. That is always the libertarian plan for healthcare.

Wow, you know almost as much about libertarianism as ZiprHead.

You are all deliberately asking for the plan from elected Libertarians, even though you know there aren't any elected Libertarians. Failing to find any, you are making up whatever you want their position to be. What you are making up is actually quite funny, in a sort of a sad way.

 

[ZiprHead]

You are all deliberately asking for the plan from elected Libertarians,

FTFY

Your continued evasion is noted.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

You are all deliberately asking for the plan from elected Libertarians,

FTFY

Your continued evasion is noted.

FIFY

Your continued asking for what you know doesn't exit is noted. Kent Hovind likes to say "show the the one piece of evidence that will prove evolution". ZiprHead says "show me the plan from the elected Libertarians to contain the Corona Virus."

 

[J842P]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Jason: are you saying that there aren't any republicans who call themselves libertarian?

There are a very few libertarian congress critters who caucus with the Republican caucus. Sorta like there are socialist congress critters who caucus with the Democrat caucus. For example Rand Paul caucuses with Republicans and Bernie Sanders caucuses with the Democrats.

I think Rand is more libertarian-leaning than full-blown libertarian, like his father.

 

[skepticalbip]

There are a very few libertarian congress critters who caucus with the Republican caucus. Sorta like there are socialist congress critters who caucus with the Democrat caucus. For example Rand Paul caucuses with Republicans and Bernie Sanders caucuses with the Democrats.

I think Rand is more libertarian-leaning than full-blown libertarian, like his father.

From what I have read of him, he has full-blown libertarian ideas and beliefs but is also pragmatic so bends to get what he can knowing he can't get it all. His dad, Ron, was a great deal less pragmatic.

 

[J842P]

Wow, you know almost as much about libertarianism as ZiprHead.

You are all deliberately asking for the plan from elected Libertarians, even though you know there aren't any elected Libertarians. Failing to find any, you are making up whatever you want their position to be. What you are making up is actually quite funny, in a sort of a sad way.

I never asked for a plan from elected Libertarians. Point out where I asked that, or please retract that statement.


But yes, of course that is the libertarian plan, which is for all these things the same: a free market will allocate resources in the most efficient manner.

Of course, a free-market allocation of resources would be disastrous in a pandemic, since free markets generally cannot cope with these sorts of rare incidents that cannot be addressed in economically efficient ways. Or rather, the economically efficient way is "just let the people who happen to be alive during a pandemic die because taxing people who don't live during a pandemic to prepare in advance is one of the most immoral things imaginable." And in general, with regards to healthcare, a free-market allocation would leave a lot of people, mostly those without much money, without healthcare. And again, the libertarian "solution" to that is, well, they don't see it as a problem. It just sucks to be poor.

And of course, there are libertarians who will make special-case arguments regarding subsidizing healthcare, but of course, this is implicitly admitting that the libertarian position cannot adequately address this issue, so they won't take the libertarian position on it.

 

[J842P]

There are a very few libertarian congress critters who caucus with the Republican caucus. Sorta like there are socialist congress critters who caucus with the Democrat caucus. For example Rand Paul caucuses with Republicans and Bernie Sanders caucuses with the Democrats.

I think Rand is more libertarian-leaning than full-blown libertarian, like his father.

From what I have read of him, he has full-blown libertarian ideas and beliefs but is also pragmatic so bends to get what he can knowing he can't get it all. His dad, Ron, was a great deal less pragmatic.

Sure, I'd believe that. I just meant how he actually has to act.

In any case, he seems like a reliable opponent of stupid foreign interventions. So he definitely gets credit from me.

 

[ZiprHead]

You are all deliberately asking for the plan from elected Libertarians,

FTFY

Your continued evasion is noted.

FIFY

Your continued asking for what you know doesn't exit is noted. Kent Hovind likes to say "show the the one piece of evidence that will prove evolution". ZiprHead says "show me the plan from the elected Libertarians to contain the Corona Virus."

No where in the OP or anywhere else in this thread is the subject limited to elected libertarians except by you. Then you come up with a fake quote by me to bolster your fake position. You're on very shaky ground here and your dishonesty slip is showing.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Since you agree there aren't any elected Libertarians, why are you worried about what plan they might implement? You're on very shaky ground here and your dishonesty slip is showing.

 

[Bomb#20]

Trump, Socialism, and the Coronavirus Epidemic - The Atlantic

There Are No Libertarians in an Epidemic

Donald Trump ... CPAC bogeyman. ... the Trump administration’s ... CPAC, ... the American Conservative Union, ...

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians. I suspect you already know this but choose to erect a strawman instead.

U.S. Representatives
Ron Paul ...

 Libertarian Republican

Jason: are you saying that there aren't any republicans who call themselves libertarian?

ZiprHead, it looks like lpetrich accidentally typed "Where are the libertarians in the coronavirus pandemic?" for his thread title. Obviously it was supposed to be "Where are the Republicans who also claim to be libertarians in the coronavirus pandemic?". Can you fix the title for him?