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Who is responsible for pregnancies? (Derail from: Policies that will reduce abortions)

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Toni

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But if the need/desire for abortion was reduced to near zero, what red meat issues would conservatives rally around?
Guns, white replacement theory, trans access to sports and bathrooms, white Christian nationalism.....They have all sorts of red meat issues to use to stir up the ignorant base.

But, back to the OP. Imo, the best way to prevent abortion is to put the money that was removed from public health/family planning clinics that was removed since the Reagan administration back to where it needs to be.

I worked in both a maternity clinic for poor women, and I did a little work in a family planning environment. My most successful accomplishment from the brief time I worked in the maternity clinic was having almost 100% of my patients return for birth control. Most of these young women had enough family support to help them raise their children, but by being patient and nonjudgmental I was able to educate and convince them that using effective birth control gave them a lot of control over their lives. At that time, ( early 80s ) anyone who was high risk for pregnancy or who had at least 4 pregnancies was eligible for state paid tubal ligation. Quite a few of my patients chose that option. Plus you had to be at least 21. I still recall a 19 year old who had 5 children crying in my office because she couldn't get the tubal. Some of my patients had very little education as well as being controlled by a male partner, which almost made pregnancy inevitable.

Nobody gets pregnant to game the system. That's an old lie from the Reagan era, "welfare queen" nonsense. It is true that having children is a proud accomplishment for many low income women. I've worked with many of them. Most were very good mothers. Some had support from the fathers of their children. We could add more benefits to help them out, but subsidized housing, SNAP, the EIC, WIC and Medicaid or CHIP does help a lot of these women provide their children with with their basic needs. Free community college classes to allow them to be trained to do jobs that pay more, would also help their children. Free or very low cost childcare, especially preschool for those age 3 to 5 would also help these families.


Some only had one or two children, a few had 3 or 4 children, and there were two who had as many as 8 or more children. Oe of them had a very supportive family who gave her a lot of help. I didn't know them well enough to understand why they desired so many children, or if they were just careless with BC. Contrary to what some think, not many women choose abortions. The year I worked in a maternity clinic, only one girl chose an abortion.

I would support expanding these programs along with making it easier to have a tubal ligation or vasectomy. Most doctors don't like to perform those procedures on anyone who is very young unless they've already had at least two children. My husband had a vasectomy, when we decided not to have children together. He was 32 and I was 35, and I didn't want to get pregnant after that age, due to the increased risks. I had a 9 year old son when we met, and he treated him as if he was his own child. It was birth control that kept me from ever having an unwanted pregnancy prior to the vasectomy. Plus, my husband wore a condom every time we had sex prior to his vasectomy. Men are a part of the problem, as a good percentage of them refuse to use condoms. Most forms of birth control are quite effective if they are used correctly. Foam and condoms used together are about as effective as OCPs, so there are options. IUDs are usually very effective as well. But, now we need to be concerned about the crazies on the right who want to ban some methods of BC.
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
 

Loren Pechtel

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
 

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Jesus! (Yeah, I know. It's a habit.) How about no one gets punished? :rolleyes:
 

Toni

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Women get pregnant even if they do not orgasm or enjoy sex or even if they are raped.

Every pregnancy, wanted or not, starts with some guy ejaculating.
 

prideandfall

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Women get pregnant even if they do not orgasm or enjoy sex or even if they are raped.

Every pregnancy, wanted or not, starts with some guy ejaculating.
and every pregnancy, wanted or not, ends with a woman's body.
the male contribution to the process - of making a donkey face for 5 seconds and then feeling better about life for maybe 10 minutes which is as long as the endorphin rush lasts before the existential horror of the rest of your life creeps back in - entitles men to nothing in terms of that woman's body.

(toni i know that we're in agreement here, i didn't quote you to try to posit an argument against your statement, you were just the jumping off point for me to soap box a little)
 

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Toni

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Jesus! (Yeah, I know. It's a habit.) How about no one gets punished? :rolleyes:
I was simply showing that her argument works equally both ways.
But it doesn’t work ‘both ways.’ Throughout western history, women have been ‘blamed’ and punished for getting pregnant, fir not ‘having self control.’ It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.

Do t want to be on the hook for providing fir some baby out if a woman you don’t care about? Don’t ejaculate.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Jesus! (Yeah, I know. It's a habit.) How about no one gets punished? :rolleyes:
I was simply showing that her argument works equally both ways.
A woman's uterus will never make with becoming home to a fetus without a man being involved.
 

Rhea

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Jesus! (Yeah, I know. It's a habit.) How about no one gets punished? :rolleyes:
I was simply showing that her argument works equally both ways.
But it clearly does not work equally both ways,
Since ejeculations near vaginas are voluntary and ovulations, obviously, are not.
Since ejaculations near vaginas are done with awareness, and ovulations, obviously, are not.
Since ejaculations nears vaginas activively swim toward the ovum and the ovum, obviously, does not.
 

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Loren Pechtel

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Jesus! (Yeah, I know. It's a habit.) How about no one gets punished? :rolleyes:
I was simply showing that her argument works equally both ways.
But it doesn’t work ‘both ways.’ Throughout western history, women have been ‘blamed’ and punished for getting pregnant, fir not ‘having self control.’ It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.

Do t want to be on the hook for providing fir some baby out if a woman you don’t care about? Don’t ejaculate.
Your argument works equally when reversed, it's not proof of anything.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
 

laughing dog

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Jesus! (Yeah, I know. It's a habit.) How about no one gets punished? :rolleyes:
I was simply showing that her argument works equally both ways.
But it doesn’t work ‘both ways.’ Throughout western history, women have been ‘blamed’ and punished for getting pregnant, fir not ‘having self control.’ It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.

Do t want to be on the hook for providing fir some baby out if a woman you don’t care about? Don’t ejaculate.
Your argument works equally when reversed, it's not proof of anything.
No, it doesn’t work both ways because men do not bear any cost of a pregnancy.
 

bilby

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Jesus! (Yeah, I know. It's a habit.) How about no one gets punished? :rolleyes:
I was simply showing that her argument works equally both ways.
But it doesn’t work ‘both ways.’ Throughout western history, women have been ‘blamed’ and punished for getting pregnant, fir not ‘having self control.’ It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.

Do t want to be on the hook for providing fir some baby out if a woman you don’t care about? Don’t ejaculate.
Your argument works equally when reversed, it's not proof of anything.
But the argument is nonsensical if reversed.

“Women can become pregnant as a result of a man ejaculating” is a fact.

“Men can become pregnant as a result of a woman ovulating” is nonsensical.

The reason it is easy to believe that the argument works in both directions is that people have a tendency to edit women as a group out of the picture:

“Pregnancy can occur as a result of a man ejaculating”; “Pregnancy can occur as a result of a woman ovulating”.

Pregnancy doesn’t occur in isolation; It occurs in women.
 

Toni

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
It only takes a man’s orgasm. Fun fact: women can become pregnant without ever having an orgasm or even consenting to sex.
 

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It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.
And you are all surprised Pikachu face when I say that you are a radical feminist?
That's basically the creed of radical feminism.
 

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Should a person, regardless of anatomy, be held responsible for a child he, she, or they, do not want? Is this the crux of the issue?
No, the crux of the issue is whether a person, regardless of anatomy, should be required to create a child he, she, or they, do not want, if they have the biological potential to do so.

It’s fairly obvious that the answer is ‘no’, but that obviousness is obscured by idiots who declare that potential is the same as actual, and by zealots who believe that enjoying sex should be prohibited to women, and who wish to ensure that doing so is as risky as possible for them in every conceivable way (pun intended).

Of course, there’s considerable overlap in membership of the sets ‘idiots’ and ‘zealots’.
 

AthenaAwakened

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Should a person, regardless of anatomy, be held responsible for a child he, she, or they, do not want? Is this the crux of the issue?
No, the crux of the issue is whether a person, regardless of anatomy, should be required to create a child he, she, or they, do not want, if they have the biological potential to do so.

It’s fairly obvious that the answer is ‘no’, but that obviousness is obscured by idiots who declare that potential is the same as actual, and by zealots who believe that enjoying sex should be prohibited to women, and who wish to ensure that doing so is as risky as possible for them in every conceivable way (pun intended).

Of course, there’s considerable overlap in membership of the sets ‘idiots’ and ‘zealots’.
That's fairly straightforward. So why doesn't the thread read that way? It reads to me like people trying say anything but that.
 

Toni

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It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.
And you are all surprised Pikachu face when I say that you are a radical feminist?
That's basically the creed of radical feminism.
It’s biology and not feminism that has decreed all human pregnancies are the result of male ejaculation.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Your argument works equally when reversed, it's not proof of anything.
But the argument is nonsensical if reversed.

“Women can become pregnant as a result of a man ejaculating” is a fact.

“Men can become pregnant as a result of a woman ovulating” is nonsensical.

You changed it, mine wasn't nonsense.

The reason it is easy to believe that the argument works in both directions is that people have a tendency to edit women as a group out of the picture:

“Pregnancy can occur as a result of a man ejaculating”; “Pregnancy can occur as a result of a woman ovulating”.

Pregnancy doesn’t occur in isolation; It occurs in women.
So? I was objecting to her argument pretending it's all the man's fault. Both people are responsible!
 

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It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.
And you are all surprised Pikachu face when I say that you are a radical feminist?
That's basically the creed of radical feminism.
It’s biology and not feminism that has decreed all human pregnancies are the result of male ejaculation.
Ova and sperm are both necessary, and neither sufficient on its own, for human pregnancies.

It would be just as valid to say all human pregnancies are the result of female ovulation.
 

Metaphor

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You changed it, mine wasn't nonsense.
It was; But it omitted the role of the woman in pregnancy, so that the nonsense wasn’t obvious.

Lots of nonsense results when people forget that pregnancies happen to women, rather than just happening.
Your statement is transphobic. Pregnancies are not restricted to women. I am reliably informed that pregnant people can be either women or men or anything else.
 

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It’s time the blame gets laid at the correct door: that of people who ejaculate.
And you are all surprised Pikachu face when I say that you are a radical feminist?
That's basically the creed of radical feminism.
It’s biology and not feminism that has decreed all human pregnancies are the result of male ejaculation.
Ova and sperm are both necessary, and neither sufficient on its own, for human pregnancies.

It would be just as valid to say all human pregnancies are the result of female ovulation.
Female ovulation is involuntary and does not cause her to feel pleasure. Male ejaculation is under his control, and certainly whether he chooses to ejaculate in or near a vagina is under his control.

Parthenogenesis is not a human reproductive strategies. Yet.
 

Loren Pechtel

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You changed it, mine wasn't nonsense.
It was; But it omitted the role of the woman in pregnancy, so that the nonsense wasn’t obvious.

Lots of nonsense results when people forget that pregnancies happen to women, rather than just happening.
She is trying to blame the men for something both parties are responsible for.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Female ovulation is involuntary and does not cause her to feel pleasure. Male ejaculation is under his control, and certainly whether he chooses to ejaculate in or near a vagina is under his control.

Parthenogenesis is not a human reproductive strategies. Yet.
Which has nothing to do with the situation. Both are responsible.
 

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You changed it, mine wasn't nonsense.
It was; But it omitted the role of the woman in pregnancy, so that the nonsense wasn’t obvious.

Lots of nonsense results when people forget that pregnancies happen to women, rather than just happening.
She is trying to blame the men for something both parties are responsible for.
No, she is simply stating basic biological facts, something you apparently cannot grasp.
 

Toni

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Female ovulation is involuntary and does not cause her to feel pleasure. Male ejaculation is under his control, and certainly whether he chooses to ejaculate in or near a vagina is under his control.

Parthenogenesis is not a human reproductive strategies. Yet.
Which has nothing to do with the situation. Both are responsible.
But only one is being controlled by society.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Female ovulation is involuntary and does not cause her to feel pleasure. Male ejaculation is under his control, and certainly whether he chooses to ejaculate in or near a vagina is under his control.

Parthenogenesis is not a human reproductive strategies. Yet.
Which has nothing to do with the situation. Both are responsible.
What does it even mean to be "responsible"? A woman gets pregnant and she'll be responsible for carrying a fetus to term and then birthing. There will be sickness, peeing, lost sleep, lost viability of some organs, no sex (the best sex?), anxiety, birthing, lots of blood! This is just to a day or so after birth. The man... he'll be responsible for... umm... ... providing feckless support, husbandry, lump sum payment?

What does it mean to say the father of a child is "responsible"?
 

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Why don't all men always wear a condom when having sex, if they don't want to be "responsible" for a pregnancy?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/condom/how-effective-are-condoms

If you use condoms perfectly every single time you have sex, they’re 98% effective at preventing pregnancy. But people aren’t perfect, so in real life condoms are about 85% effective — that means about 15 out of 100 people who use condoms as their only birth control method will get pregnant each year.

The better you are about using condoms correctly every time you have sex, the better they’ll work. But there’s a small chance that you will get pregnant even if you always use them the right way.

Sure, women have many options for birth control, but if a man doesn't want his partner to become pregnant, especially if the sex is casual and not a part of a long term relationship, the man should always wear a condom. Oh yeah. I know. It's not as good with a condom. Well too fucking bad. My husband always wore one when we were dating.

And, why not discuss birth control before engaging in intercourse? Is it that difficult to ask a woman what type of birth control she's using? I always used some form of birth control, but condoms used correctly are an effective way to prevent pregnancy and STDs. If a woman uses a spermicidal foam, for example, and the man wears a condom, there will be no unwanted pregnancies. It's really that simple, but unfortunately, too many people don't take precautions.

While we're not discussing STDs, condoms are the most effective way to prevent transmitting an STD through sexual intercourse. So, those who have casual sex should make it a priority to use condoms for preventing both pregnancy and STDs.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Why don't all men always wear a condom when having sex, if they don't want to be "responsible" for a pregnancy?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/condom/how-effective-are-condoms

If you use condoms perfectly every single time you have sex, they’re 98% effective at preventing pregnancy. But people aren’t perfect, so in real life condoms are about 85% effective — that means about 15 out of 100 people who use condoms as their only birth control method will get pregnant each year.

The better you are about using condoms correctly every time you have sex, the better they’ll work. But there’s a small chance that you will get pregnant even if you always use them the right way.

Sure, women have many options for birth control, but if a man doesn't want his partner to become pregnant, especially if the sex is casual and not a part of a long term relationship, the man should always wear a condom. Oh yeah. I know. It's not as good with a condom. Well too fucking bad. My husband always wore one when we were dating.
Sounds kind of awkward during dinner.
And, why not discuss birth control before engaging in intercourse? Is it that difficult to ask a woman what type of birth control she's using? I always used some form of birth control, but condoms used correctly are an effective way to prevent pregnancy and STDs. If a woman uses a spermicidal foam, for example, and the man wears a condom, there will be no unwanted pregnancies. It's really that simple, but unfortunately, too many people don't take precautions.

While we're not discussing STDs, condoms are the most effective way to prevent transmitting an STD through sexual intercourse. So, those who have casual sex should make it a priority to use condoms for preventing both pregnancy and STDs.
All that said, is a man with condom getting a pass (potential pun avoided) for responsibility if there is a pregnancy? Are we putting together a responsibility schedule that bases percentage of responsibility based on aspects of both actors? Sobriety, protection levels, levels of implied consents, levels of spoken consent, discussion before hand, potential motive, actual motive? Because I know Loren would be dying to put a soul-less, unfeeling, "logical" schedule together.

Because, one problem I have is that the term "responsibility" hasn't actually been addressed.
 

bilby

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Why don't all men always wear a condom when having sex, if they don't want to be "responsible" for a pregnancy?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/condom/how-effective-are-condoms

If you use condoms perfectly every single time you have sex, they’re 98% effective at preventing pregnancy. But people aren’t perfect, so in real life condoms are about 85% effective — that means about 15 out of 100 people who use condoms as their only birth control method will get pregnant each year.

The better you are about using condoms correctly every time you have sex, the better they’ll work. But there’s a small chance that you will get pregnant even if you always use them the right way.

Sure, women have many options for birth control, but if a man doesn't want his partner to become pregnant, especially if the sex is casual and not a part of a long term relationship, the man should always wear a condom. Oh yeah. I know. It's not as good with a condom. Well too fucking bad. My husband always wore one when we were dating.
Sounds kind of awkward during dinner.
And, why not discuss birth control before engaging in intercourse? Is it that difficult to ask a woman what type of birth control she's using? I always used some form of birth control, but condoms used correctly are an effective way to prevent pregnancy and STDs. If a woman uses a spermicidal foam, for example, and the man wears a condom, there will be no unwanted pregnancies. It's really that simple, but unfortunately, too many people don't take precautions.

While we're not discussing STDs, condoms are the most effective way to prevent transmitting an STD through sexual intercourse. So, those who have casual sex should make it a priority to use condoms for preventing both pregnancy and STDs.
All that said, is a man with condom getting a pass (potential pun avoided) for responsibility if there is a pregnancy? Are we putting together a responsibility schedule that bases percentage of responsibility based on aspects of both actors? Sobriety, protection levels, levels of implied consents, levels of spoken consent, discussion before hand, potential motive, actual motive? Because I know Loren would be dying to put a soul-less, unfeeling, "logical" schedule together.

Because, one problem I have is that the term "responsibility" hasn't actually been addressed.
Responsibility in this context is easy to define, but hard to get anyone to admit to.

‘Being responsible’ is synonymous with ‘accepting my demands about what you should do and how you should behave’. Anything else is ‘irresponsible’.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.

Unless you're arguing that he should have pulled out they are equally responsible.
 

Toni

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.

Unless you're arguing that he should have pulled out they are equally responsible.
But no one ever suggests that the man lose bodily autonomy because he had sex.

I know you support the right of women to make their own choices about their bodies. I’m just trying to make the point for those who need to hear it that pregnancy is not a punishment for women for having sex.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.
Not arguing otherwise. There was an attempted parallel with men in women verses ovulation, which is involuntary.
 

Metaphor

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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.
Not arguing otherwise. There was an attempted parallel with men in women verses ovulation, which is involuntary.
The manufacture of sperm is involuntary, too.
 

Toni

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Joined
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Messages
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NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.
Not arguing otherwise. There was an attempted parallel with men in women verses ovulation, which is involuntary.
The manufacture of sperm is involuntary, too.
But not the release of sperm in a vagina.
 

Metaphor

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Ovulation is involuntary.
Sperm production is involuntary.
A woman allowing sperm near her vagina is voluntary.
A man ejaculating sperm near a woman's vagina is voluntary.
 

Metaphor

Adult human male
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Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.
Not arguing otherwise. There was an attempted parallel with men in women verses ovulation, which is involuntary.
The manufacture of sperm is involuntary, too.
But not the release of sperm in a vagina.
Yes, that act is voluntary, as is a woman deciding to have sperm released into her vagina.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,802
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.
Not arguing otherwise. There was an attempted parallel with men in women verses ovulation, which is involuntary.
The manufacture of sperm is involuntary, too.
But not the release of sperm in a vagina.
Yes, that act is voluntary, as is a woman deciding to have sperm released into her vagina.
A woman does not necessarily agree to having sperm released in her vagina. There is rape, for one thing. Also men lie about pulling out in time, promises to use a code don or even having had a vasectomy or otherwise being sterile.

Again, no one is telling men they must gestate an embryo fir 9 months and then pass an 8 lb baby through any of their orifices, nor seeking to curtail their educational or career opportunities for the sin of having engaged in heterosexual sex.
 

Metaphor

Adult human male
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Apr 1, 2007
Messages
11,299
Gender
None. on/ga/njegov
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. But sure, let’s punish women…
Every unwanted pregnancy begins with some woman's ovulation. But sure, let's punish men...
Virtually no ovulation alone has resulted in a pregnancy in the history of women ovulating. There is an entire industry based on this fact.

Men releasing in women has resulted in a notable percentage of pregnancies. There is an entire industry based on that fact.
No ejaculation alone has ever resulted in pregnancy, either. It takes both.
Only one of the events is freewill and arbitrary.
Unless it's rape both consented to the sex.
Not arguing otherwise. There was an attempted parallel with men in women verses ovulation, which is involuntary.
The manufacture of sperm is involuntary, too.
But not the release of sperm in a vagina.
Yes, that act is voluntary, as is a woman deciding to have sperm released into her vagina.
A woman does not necessarily agree to having sperm released in her vagina. There is rape, for one thing. Also men lie about pulling out in time, promises to use a code don or even having had a vasectomy or otherwise being sterile.

Again, no one is telling men they must gestate an embryo fir 9 months and then pass an 8 lb baby through any of their orifices, nor seeking to curtail their educational or career opportunities for the sin of having engaged in heterosexual sex.
I'm not telling women to do it either.

I'm just tired of the poor analogies and I'm calling them out.
 
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