• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Who is responsible for pregnancies? (Derail from: Policies that will reduce abortions)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2000
Messages
36,661
Location
Nevada
Gender
Yes
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
The question is broader today.

A sing;le woman can go to a sperm bank and get impregnated can she not? Or a single man can adopt or pay a female surrogate to carry a baby if he can afford it.

With the passing of the tradition of the nuclear family child support increasingly becomes a govt and tax issue. Day care is now a 'crisis'. The old norm was to start a family the guy was supposed to be able to make a living and the wife took care of the hids during the day. There was a social stigma to single parenthood by accident or by choice.
A lot of this is not relevant. Another issue is not 'day care', but rather the balance between what people get payed , and the cost of living, Back in the 50's and early 60's, a man could get a non-skilled job, pay for a house, a wife, and two kids, and there be enough money that the wife could choose to stay home with the kids. Then, wages did not keep up with inflation, and the middle class and lower force the conditions where having a two income household was no longer optional to be able to afford children. That is what destroyed the tradition of the nuclear family, and that's the need for both parents to work,and traditionally, men get paid more than women. Unless you have single person with plenty of cash, the sperm bank/surrogate option is not viable, there is something known as 'finances' that get in the way. that makes that line of argumentation not relevant to the issue at hand.
A white man could. Not white, or not a man, or not American--nope. We pushed the low wage jobs off on other groups and pretended everyone could support a household.
Almost 89% of the US population was white in 1960. Auto plants in Michigan had significant amounts of black and hispanic workers making good money doing good union jobs.
I didn't mean to say all that were non-white couldn't, but rather that the low-pay jobs went to the non-whites. A non-white couldn't expect to raise a family on one income.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
You evidently do not understand. You appear to think women have no agency, and cannot decide to keep sperm away from their vaginas.

Your easy misogyny and dehumanisation and infantilisation of women is tiresome.

Fertilised eggs require both an egg and a sperm. Women bring half the ingredients to the table. Deal with it.
Wow. Just because you disagree with what I write is no reason to pretend that you do not adequately understand the written word and are therefore able to simply substitute insults for cogent arguments.
It seems to me that he understands you fine, he's just saying something you don't want to hear.
No, Loren, you’ve got that wrong. I’ve stated a simple fact of biology: every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating. That is what causes pregnancy.

Men are losing their minds over some woman having the unmitigated gall to state that simple fact of biology.

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2000
Messages
36,661
Location
Nevada
Gender
Yes
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
The question is broader today.

A sing;le woman can go to a sperm bank and get impregnated can she not? Or a single man can adopt or pay a female surrogate to carry a baby if he can afford it.

With the passing of the tradition of the nuclear family child support increasingly becomes a govt and tax issue. Day care is now a 'crisis'. The old norm was to start a family the guy was supposed to be able to make a living and the wife took care of the hids during the day. There was a social stigma to single parenthood by accident or by choice.
A lot of this is not relevant. Another issue is not 'day care', but rather the balance between what people get payed , and the cost of living, Back in the 50's and early 60's, a man could get a non-skilled job, pay for a house, a wife, and two kids, and there be enough money that the wife could choose to stay home with the kids. Then, wages did not keep up with inflation, and the middle class and lower force the conditions where having a two income household was no longer optional to be able to afford children. That is what destroyed the tradition of the nuclear family, and that's the need for both parents to work,and traditionally, men get paid more than women. Unless you have single person with plenty of cash, the sperm bank/surrogate option is not viable, there is something known as 'finances' that get in the way. that makes that line of argumentation not relevant to the issue at hand.
A white man could. Not white, or not a man, or not American--nope. We pushed the low wage jobs off on other groups and pretended everyone could support a household.
That was always job inequality. However, it shows that in concept it has been done, and could be done if there wasn't the oligarchy in control.
You misunderstand. I'm saying that back then it could be done for the in group. We ignored the out group and pretended things were good.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2000
Messages
36,661
Location
Nevada
Gender
Yes
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Second, men can control where they ejaculate and women can control where they receive ejaculate. It seems to me you think women cannot resist penis-in-vagina sex, or that all penis-in-vagina sex is rape. I am sorry your opinion of women is so catastrophically and misogynistically low.
HOW THE EVER LOVING FUCK IS A WOMAN SUPPOSED TO FORCE A GUY TO PULL OUT BEFORE HE EJACULATES IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO?
Maybe not rely on pulling out except with a highly trusted partner? (Not that it has a good track record even then.)
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,682
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Sure, but if the man simply made the decision not to ejaculate in or near the vagina, there would be no pregnancy.
If the woman 100% does not want to become pregnant, do not invite the penis in to the vagina. Take some responsibility and/or contraceptive.
Sure, why should men be denied their responsibility free orgasms?
Women can indulge in any reckless behavior and have zero responsibility for anything.
Since when?
Since your last ridiculous post.
What ‘reckless’ behavior are you talking about? Having sex?
Yes, the reckless sex that results in an unwanted pregnancy or passing along an STD.

Wearing attire that some man finds too sexually provocative to resist? Having her own opinions? Having an opinion that is unflattering to a specific man, subset of men or men in general? Speaking aloud or at all? Not doing as she is told?

Wanting to pursue an education, even an advanced degree and become whatever she wants?

Dating another guy? Marrying him and having kids who have a decent dad instead of a deadbeat loser?

Not accepting that she is nothing but a tramp and a loser of lose morals? Daring to be more than an alcoholic or junkie? Daring not to be dependent on some man for money or self esteem?

Instead of accepting that any pregnancy is her fault and it is her responsibility to skulk off and have said baby as quietly and inexpensively as possible and thereafter to live on subsistence level welfare and only divulge the name of the father when the child is 18 and no longer a financial burden but is hopefully a star quarterback with a full year ride to a good football school so ‘dead’ can have someone to be proud of? At which point she dies, so dad doesn’t have to share any of the limelight or risk recriminations if she talks about how he abandoned his child or otherwise contradict whatever story he decides to tell?

Which, exactly do you personally find most threatening?
LOL. I knew you could get more ridiculous.
You are right—although it is somewhat off topic: men really do need to wear a condon throughout any kind is sexual contact in order to avoid contracting or passing along any kind of STI.

Sadly, women do not have anything equivalent in terms of effectiveness. So, boys, keep it zipped or wear a raincoat!

So girls, keep your panties on and legs closed (y)
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2000
Messages
36,661
Location
Nevada
Gender
Yes
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Sure, but if the man simply made the decision not to ejaculate in or near the vagina, there would be no pregnancy.
If the woman 100% does not want to become pregnant, do not invite the penis in to the vagina. Take some responsibility and/or contraceptive.
Sure, why should men be denied their responsibility free orgasms?
Women can indulge in any reckless behavior and have zero responsibility for anything.
Since when?
It's what you're asking for--the whole responsibility being his.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
The question is broader today.

A sing;le woman can go to a sperm bank and get impregnated can she not? Or a single man can adopt or pay a female surrogate to carry a baby if he can afford it.

With the passing of the tradition of the nuclear family child support increasingly becomes a govt and tax issue. Day care is now a 'crisis'. The old norm was to start a family the guy was supposed to be able to make a living and the wife took care of the hids during the day. There was a social stigma to single parenthood by accident or by choice.
A lot of this is not relevant. Another issue is not 'day care', but rather the balance between what people get payed , and the cost of living, Back in the 50's and early 60's, a man could get a non-skilled job, pay for a house, a wife, and two kids, and there be enough money that the wife could choose to stay home with the kids. Then, wages did not keep up with inflation, and the middle class and lower force the conditions where having a two income household was no longer optional to be able to afford children. That is what destroyed the tradition of the nuclear family, and that's the need for both parents to work,and traditionally, men get paid more than women. Unless you have single person with plenty of cash, the sperm bank/surrogate option is not viable, there is something known as 'finances' that get in the way. that makes that line of argumentation not relevant to the issue at hand.
A white man could. Not white, or not a man, or not American--nope. We pushed the low wage jobs off on other groups and pretended everyone could support a household.
Almost 89% of the US population was white in 1960. Auto plants in Michigan had significant amounts of black and hispanic workers making good money doing good union jobs.
I didn't mean to say all that were non-white couldn't, but rather that the low-pay jobs went to the non-whites. A non-white couldn't expect to raise a family on one income.
Until post WWII, very few people managed to support a family with only a male job holder. Most workers worked in agriculture even after the industrial revolution. That included women who typically managed the household, put out a garden sufficient to feed a family for the entire year and hopefully with excess to sell, kept a hen house, milked at least one cow if not a dairy farm and more if it was, made garments for the family and mended garments as well, cooked all meals, including for any extra farm hands, canned or otherwise preserved whatever was possible to can, killed, scalded and plucked poultry, and of course raised whatever kids came along. This amounted to significantly more than a full time job by today’s standards. Heck, that’s what my grandmother and aunt still did well into their 70’s, long after WWII.

Women who did not live on a farm typically helped out whatever business or trade the man of the house was engaged in, cooking, cleaning, doing the books, attending to inventory and assisting customers just as her husband did.

It’s a fantasy that women in the good old days did not ‘work.’ Their labor was vital to the survival of the family and family business, whatever that was. Typically they did not get their own paycheck and until the 1970’s could not open a line of credit or purchase a home in their own name.


 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Sure, but if the man simply made the decision not to ejaculate in or near the vagina, there would be no pregnancy.
If the woman 100% does not want to become pregnant, do not invite the penis in to the vagina. Take some responsibility and/or contraceptive.
Sure, why should men be denied their responsibility free orgasms?
Women can indulge in any reckless behavior and have zero responsibility for anything.
Since when?
It's what you're asking for--the whole responsibility being his.
Not at all. I’ve merely stated the absolute fact of human biology: every pregnancy starts with a man ejaculating.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want?

I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy—as if that could happen. Women get pregnant and carry a pregnancy to term ( or don’t) and give birth.

But that all begins when a man ejaculates.
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,682
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,682
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.
Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,682
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.
Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?
Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.
 

Metaphor

Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
11,298
Gender
None. on/ga/njegov
You evidently do not understand. You appear to think women have no agency, and cannot decide to keep sperm away from their vaginas.

Your easy misogyny and dehumanisation and infantilisation of women is tiresome.

Fertilised eggs require both an egg and a sperm. Women bring half the ingredients to the table. Deal with it.
Wow. Just because you disagree with what I write is no reason to pretend that you do not adequately understand the written word and are therefore able to simply substitute insults for cogent arguments.
It seems to me that he understands you fine, he's just saying something you don't want to hear.
No, Loren, you’ve got that wrong. I’ve stated a simple fact of biology: every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating.
Every single pregnancy begins with an ovulation.

That is what causes pregnancy.
The ejaculation of sperm causes no life to begin. It is the fusion of sperm and egg that causes a fertilised egg. But for women's eggs, there would be no human conception.

Men are losing their minds over some woman having the unmitigated gall to state that simple fact of biology.
Almost every single word in the above sentence is wrong, including 'to' and 'of'.

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.
Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?
Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.
I’m totally on topic. Men ejaculating in or near vaginas is what causes pregnancy.

Yes, women must be ovulating or have just ovulated or be just about to ovulate—a biological process women cannot control without medical intervention, and an intervention not all women are able to tolerate.

Men, on the other hand, are in control over when, where and whether they ejaculate.
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
4,232
Location
It's a desert out there
Gender
Agenderist
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Toni: Well if Men don't A.
TSwizzle: Well if Woman don't B.

Toni didn't say not B'ing, she said not A'ing. B'ing is possible without A'ing. In fact, a lot of B'ing can happen without any A'ing. B'ing without A'ing isn't a guaranteed sure thing, but it notably reduces the risk, and effectively eliminates it if suited up.

Toni effectively said, one should buckle up to avoid getting hurt/killed in car accident, where as TSwizzle says don't drive in a car. It really is silly.
Solid Analogy!
 

Tigers!

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
3,060
Location
On the wing waiting for a kick.
Basic Beliefs
Bible believing revelational redemptionist (Baptist)
What is so hard about the concept of both parties being responsible?
Alright. Let's unpack this.

In your view, what actions should each party take to be responsible and prevent an unwanted pregnancy? What actions do you expect a responsible woman to take, and what actions do you expect a responsible man to take?
Men:
1. Ask the woman is the time of her cycle such that pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility. If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or when a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

Women:
You are most familiar with your cycle. Are you using some from of birth control?
1. Is pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility? If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or man wears a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

In all instances no sex for a time will kill no one.
 

Jarhyn

Wizard
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
10,614
Gender
Androgyne; they/them
Basic Beliefs
Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.
Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?
Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.
I’m totally on topic. Men ejaculating in or near vaginas is what causes pregnancy.

Yes, women must be ovulating or have just ovulated or be just about to ovulate—a biological process women cannot control without medical intervention, and an intervention not all women are able to tolerate.

Men, on the other hand, are in control over when, where and whether they ejaculate.
I will take only the slightest moment to recognize, and recognize also how unimportant it is that this is not always true.

Particular folks have no control, on occasion, over certain spontaneous ejaculations.

It is unimportant owing to the fact that almost universally, this event happens while their pants are zipped up, before it gets anywhere close to a vagina.
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,682
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.
Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}
You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.
I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.
Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?
Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.
I’m totally on topic. Men ejaculating in or near vaginas is what causes pregnancy.

Yes, women must be ovulating or have just ovulated or be just about to ovulate—a biological process women cannot control without medical intervention, and an intervention not all women are able to tolerate.

Men, on the other hand, are in control over when, where and whether they ejaculate.

If woman doesn't want to get pregnant she needs to not be having the penis in the vagina sexy time. She is responsible for the vagina and the egg.
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
4,232
Location
It's a desert out there
Gender
Agenderist
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

No, that is not what Toni (or I) want. The reality right now is that women bear the physical responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. And additionally women bear the social responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. Women are *expected* to take the pill, and if they don't, then they are considered to be "responsible" for "getting themselves" pregnant. In this very thread, it has been stated that it's really easy for a woman to not get pregnant - just don't have sex. The responsibility for avoiding a pregnancy is placed almost entirely on the women. We have to take pills that mess with our cycles, give us migraines, increase our risk of stroke, make us gain weight, and cause depression and anxiety. We have to go to a doctor and get a prescription in order to take those pills. We have to go to a pharmacist to get those pills. We have to take them every day without fail for them to work properly. The responsibility that women are expected to take in order to avoid pregnancy is something that affects us every single day regardless of whether we're actually having sex or not. And it comes with increased health risks.

What we're asking for is that men ALSO are *expected* to be responsible for the avoidance of pregnancy. Especially when the responsibility that men would need to take is so miniscule in comparison. You can buy a condom any time, at many locations, without a prescription or a doctor's visit. You can stock them up. You don't need to use them every day, you can easily just use them when you are about to have sex. They don't cause you ANY health risks or side effects at all.

It's monumentally easier for men to be responsible for avoiding a pregnancy.

And yet... the social expectation is that women take the responsibility, so that... men don't have to lose a teensy bit of sensation during sex, or be inconvenienced by thinking about it.

FFS, "So girls, keep your panties on and legs closed" is something you say without batting an eye. Why the fuck aren't you ALSO saying "so boys, keep it zipped and in your pants"?

It takes both a male and a female to fertilize an egg, you're right. But only one of us can actually, literally control where their gamete is deposited. Easily, with very little effort. But it's the other one - the one of us who cannot control where our gametes go - we're the ones expected to either forego sex or be 100% responsible for not "falling pregnant".
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
What is so hard about the concept of both parties being responsible?
Alright. Let's unpack this.

In your view, what actions should each party take to be responsible and prevent an unwanted pregnancy? What actions do you expect a responsible woman to take, and what actions do you expect a responsible man to take?
Men:
1. Ask the woman is the time of her cycle such that pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility. If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or when a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

Women:
You are most familiar with your cycle. Are you using some from of birth control?
1. Is pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility? If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or man wears a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

In all instances no sex for a time will kill no one.
Not every woman, particularly young women or women in peri menopause, know when they ovulate. Ovulation can be affected by a number of factors such as stress, diet, general health.

This is why the rhythm method fails

Of course women could monitor their ovulation by expensive kits. Or men could just not ejaculate inside or near a vagina.
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
4,232
Location
It's a desert out there
Gender
Agenderist
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
4,232
Location
It's a desert out there
Gender
Agenderist
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Not every woman, particularly young women or women in peri menopause, know when they ovulate. Ovulation can be affected by a number of factors such as stress, diet, general health.
No kidding. I've been swinging wildly between 22 and 32 days for the last year. It's anybody's guess when I'm ovulating now.
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,682
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

No, that is not what Toni (or I) want. The reality right now is that women bear the physical responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. And additionally women bear the social responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. Women are *expected* to take the pill, and if they don't, then they are considered to be "responsible" for "getting themselves" pregnant. In this very thread, it has been stated that it's really easy for a woman to not get pregnant - just don't have sex. The responsibility for avoiding a pregnancy is placed almost entirely on the women. We have to take pills that mess with our cycles, give us migraines, increase our risk of stroke, make us gain weight, and cause depression and anxiety. We have to go to a doctor and get a prescription in order to take those pills. We have to go to a pharmacist to get those pills. We have to take them every day without fail for them to work properly. The responsibility that women are expected to take in order to avoid pregnancy is something that affects us every single day regardless of whether we're actually having sex or not. And it comes with increased health risks.

What we're asking for is that men ALSO are *expected* to be responsible for the avoidance of pregnancy. Especially when the responsibility that men would need to take is so miniscule in comparison. You can buy a condom any time, at many locations, without a prescription or a doctor's visit. You can stock them up. You don't need to use them every day, you can easily just use them when you are about to have sex. They don't cause you ANY health risks or side effects at all.
Boo-hoo. That's the price women pay if they want the penis in the vagina sexy time. I've had a vasectomy so I did my part along with millions of other men.

It's monumentally easier for men to be responsible for avoiding a pregnancy.

And yet... the social expectation is that women take the responsibility, so that... men don't have to lose a teensy bit of sensation during sex, or be inconvenienced by thinking about it.

FFS, "So girls, keep your panties on and legs closed" is something you say without batting an eye. Why the fuck aren't you ALSO saying "so boys, keep it zipped and in your pants"?

Generally speaking, men do keep their penis in their pants. Until the woman's vagina becomes available for the sex and the fun begins. But sure, blame the man.

It takes both a male and a female to fertilize an egg, you're right. But only one of us can actually, literally control where their gamete is deposited. Easily, with very little effort. But it's the other one - the one of us who cannot control where our gametes go - we're the ones expected to either forego sex or be 100% responsible for not "falling pregnant".
No, not 100% responsible for "falling pregnant" but complicit when allowing the penis in vagina sexy time.
 

Metaphor

Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
11,298
Gender
None. on/ga/njegov
Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".
A woman engaged in consensual behaviour that caused her to be pregnant.

Why do you appear so hostile to the fact that eggs are as necessary as sperm in creating a pregnancy? I honestly don't understand it.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".
A woman engaged in consensual behaviour that caused her to be pregnant.

Why do you appear so hostile to the fact that eggs are as necessary as sperm in creating a pregnancy? I honestly don't understand it.
Any hostility on my part is purely imaginary.

Male hostility to the simple statement: Every pregnancy is the result of a man ejaculating, OTOH: That’s pretty substantial.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
31,190
Location
Frozen in Michigan
Gender
Old Fart
Basic Beliefs
Democratic Socialist Atheist
merry-go-round-jurgen-lorenzen.jpg
 

Metaphor

Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
11,298
Gender
None. on/ga/njegov
Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".
A woman engaged in consensual behaviour that caused her to be pregnant.

Why do you appear so hostile to the fact that eggs are as necessary as sperm in creating a pregnancy? I honestly don't understand it.
Any hostility on my part is purely imaginary.

Male hostility to the simple statement: Every pregnancy is the result of a man ejaculating, OTOH: That’s pretty substantial.
Every pregnancy is the result of a woman ovulating.
 

Bomb#20

Contributor
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
6,425
Location
California
Gender
It's a free country.
Basic Beliefs
Rationalism
... I’ve stated a simple fact of biology: every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating. That is what causes pregnancy.

Men are losing their minds over some woman having the unmitigated gall to state that simple fact of biology. ...
"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true." - Lewis Carroll

Toni, you keep saying that over and over. And IIRC you said you're a scientist. So you should know better than to make unscientific claims like that one and try to cloak them in the authority of science. What you are doing here is no different from what Christians are doing when they claim it's a simple fact of biology that a human life begins at conception. Life is a cycle. It goes in a circle. A circle has no beginning and no end. There is no scientific basis whatsoever for picking one event in the life cycle and claiming that that's where the cycle starts. Such claims are metaphysics. They're religion.

If you disagree, show your work. By all means, please explain to the board how your claim "every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating" is falsifiable. If that's a "fact of biology", then what biological experiment could we possibly do that would falsify your claim if it were to come out a certain way? If Metaphor says a pregnancy begins with an ovulation and you say it begins with an ejaculation and Tom says it begins with a fertilization and Emily says it begins with an implantation, what distinguishable predictions of observable events are implied by all your distinct claims about what every single pregnancy begins with?
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".
A woman engaged in consensual behaviour that caused her to be pregnant.

Why do you appear so hostile to the fact that eggs are as necessary as sperm in creating a pregnancy? I honestly don't understand it.
Any hostility on my part is purely imaginary.

Male hostility to the simple statement: Every pregnancy is the result of a man ejaculating, OTOH: That’s pretty substantial.
Every pregnancy is the result of a woman ovulating.
So, involuntary process on the part of woman > voluntary action on part of man.

Got it.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,961
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
Any hostility on my part is purely imaginary.

Male hostility to the simple statement: Every pregnancy is the result of a man ejaculating, OTOH: That’s pretty substantial.
Every pregnancy is the result of a woman ovulating.
So, involuntary process on the part of woman > voluntary action on part of man.

Got it.
I think they are saying they are equal.
 

bigfield

the baby-eater
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
4,577
Location
Straya
Basic Beliefs
yeah nah
If you disagree, show your work. By all means, please explain to the board how your claim "every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating" is falsifiable. If that's a "fact of biology", then what biological experiment could we possibly do that would falsify your claim if it were to come out a certain way? If Metaphor says a pregnancy begins with an ovulation and you say it begins with an ejaculation and Tom says it begins with a fertilization and Emily says it begins with an implantation, what distinguishable predictions of observable events are implied by all your distinct claims about what every single pregnancy begins with?
Aren't they all true? Pregnancy begins with an ovulation, an ejaculation, fertilisation and an implantation.

Surely the obvious point is that ejaculation is a necessary part of causing a pregnancy and it's a part of a pregnancy that the father must contribute.

On top of that, biology has empowered men to choose when and where they ejaculate. They forgo a lot of other ejaculatory destinations when they choose to ejaculate inside or near a vagina. If nothing else, I'd say that means it's pretty foolish for a man to risk causing a pregnancy he doesn't want to happen when it's a risk so easily avoided.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,961
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
It seems the argument is if the woman consents, the man is powerless to do it anywhere else. It seems a dubious thing.

Thread itself seems ridiculously dubious. Who is responsible... like we are an insurance company trying to assess blame for the pregnancy accident.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
If you disagree, show your work. By all means, please explain to the board how your claim "every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating" is falsifiable. If that's a "fact of biology", then what biological experiment could we possibly do that would falsify your claim if it were to come out a certain way? If Metaphor says a pregnancy begins with an ovulation and you say it begins with an ejaculation and Tom says it begins with a fertilization and Emily says it begins with an implantation, what distinguishable predictions of observable events are implied by all your distinct claims about what every single pregnancy begins with?
Aren't they all true? Pregnancy begins with an ovulation, an ejaculation, fertilisation and an implantation.

Surely the obvious point is that ejaculation is a necessary part of causing a pregnancy and it's a part of a pregnancy that the father must contribute.

On top of that, biology has empowered men to choose when and where they ejaculate. They forgo a lot of other ejaculatory destinations when they choose to ejaculate inside or near a vagina. If nothing else, I'd say that means it's pretty foolish for a man to risk causing a pregnancy he doesn't want to happen when it's a risk so easily avoided.
Exactly.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
It seems the argument is if the woman consents, the man is powerless to do it anywhere else. It seems a dubious thing.

Thread itself seems ridiculously dubious. Who is responsible... like we are an insurance company trying to assess blame for the pregnancy accident.
I never intended my initial statement: ‘Every pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation’ to be a derail or to spark this long pointless contentious thread. I thought I was making a simple, factual declaration.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,961
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
It seems the argument is if the woman consents, the man is powerless to do it anywhere else. It seems a dubious thing.

Thread itself seems ridiculously dubious. Who is responsible... like we are an insurance company trying to assess blame for the pregnancy accident.
I never intended my initial statement: ‘Every pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation’ to be a derail or to spark this long pointless contentious thread. I thought I was making a simple, factual declaration.
You should know better. :D

Reminds me of an alleged Native saying about the why you were shot with an arrow is less important than the fact that there is an arrow in your chest. A woman is pregnant. NOW WHAT?! I suppose 7 to 8 more months of arguing and bitching about who is to blame could be an answer.

And right now, women are facing the risk of hemorrhaging to death in lieu of going through a pregnancy because if she goes to a hospital, she'll be caught with SCOTUS deciding that the state should decide what a pregnant woman can do with her body, not her.

But please, let's get back to women being just as responsible for being pregnant due to consensual sex terms... because she'll be responsible for about every physical, mental hardship of pregnancy without any other options (excluding hemorrhaging). Where as the guy... might need to open his wallet... or make with a shotgun wedding.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
... I’ve stated a simple fact of biology: every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating. That is what causes pregnancy.

Men are losing their minds over some woman having the unmitigated gall to state that simple fact of biology. ...
"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true." - Lewis Carroll

Toni, you keep saying that over and over. And IIRC you said you're a scientist. So you should know better than to make unscientific claims like that one and try to cloak them in the authority of science. What you are doing here is no different from what Christians are doing when they claim it's a simple fact of biology that a human life begins at conception. Life is a cycle. It goes in a circle. A circle has no beginning and no end. There is no scientific basis whatsoever for picking one event in the life cycle and claiming that that's where the cycle starts. Such claims are metaphysics. They're religion.

If you disagree, show your work. By all means, please explain to the board how your claim "every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating" is falsifiable. If that's a "fact of biology", then what biological experiment could we possibly do that would falsify your claim if it were to come out a certain way? If Metaphor says a pregnancy begins with an ovulation and you say it begins with an ejaculation and Tom says it begins with a fertilization and Emily says it begins with an implantation, what distinguishable predictions of observable events are implied by all your distinct claims about what every single pregnancy begins with?
How is the statement: ‘Every pregnancy begins with some man ejaculating’ false, from a biological standpoint?

I made no claim that ejaculation was sufficient; merely that it is necessary.

A woman can ovulate every month for 40 years or longer and never become pregnant without a man ejaculating. This is true even if her eggs are harvested. It’s true whether or not she consents to any sexual contact. Ever.

Sperm production is equivalent to ovulation in terms of producing gametes.

Ejaculating is necessary to release sperm to fertilize the ova. Ejaculation is voluntary under most circumstances as is the choice of where to ejaculate. A woman can be impregnated whether or not she chooses to have a penis inserted into her vagina and whether or not she agrees to have a man ejaculate inside or near her vagina.

Yes, women can block ovulation by taking the pill, assuming that they are medically able to do so safely, have the finances to pay for the medical visit and prescription, and is willing to tolerate whatever side effects that may result from taking the pill. These side effects can range from beneficial to mild to extremely disruptive.

A man can use a condom, which is inexpensive, available without a prescription and immediately restores his ability to impregnate a woman simply by not using one. Or he can ejaculate not inside or near her vagina.

All of those statements are absolutely factual.

Obviously ovulation plus ejaculation are both necessary for a pregnancy to occur. They are not sufficient, however.
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
4,232
Location
It's a desert out there
Gender
Agenderist
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Every pregnancy is the result of a woman ovulating.
Let's try an analogy. Maybe I can put this in terms that resonate with you.

Every anal tear a guy experiences is the result of a man being gay.

Anal tearing is a risk with anal sex. The risk is increased if the anal sex is rough, or if there isn't sufficient lubrication. Obviously, not all anal sex will result in tearing. And also obviously, it takes two to engage in anal sex, so it's consensual.

Is it the responsibility of the bottom to ensure that the top doesn't get rough? Is it the responsibility of the bottom to ensure that the top uses sufficient lube and adds more as needed to stay safe?

Even if the bottom takes all the right steps - tells their partner to use lots of lube, insists on him not being rough, etc. - if tearing occurs, that harm is born entirely by the bottom, isn't it? If the bottom takes all the responsible steps he can, and still ends up torn, who is responsible for that tear?

Does the top have any responsibility to care for the health and wellbeing of his partner? Does he have any responsibility of his own to make sure that he doesn't cause a tear?
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
4,232
Location
It's a desert out there
Gender
Agenderist
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
I think they are saying they are equal.

I get that's what's being said. I'm saying they are NOT equal.

In current culture, women have complete responsibility for something that they have no control over. Men have no responsibility for something that they have complete control over. It takes both a sperm and an egg, but only one party has control over where their gametes are deposited. And that party is the one who is not expected to be responsible for their gametes.

That's NOT equal.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,331
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
It seems the argument is if the woman consents, the man is powerless to do it anywhere else. It seems a dubious thing.

Thread itself seems ridiculously dubious. Who is responsible... like we are an insurance company trying to assess blame for the pregnancy accident.
I never intended my initial statement: ‘Every pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation’ to be a derail or to spark this long pointless contentious thread. I thought I was making a simple, factual declaration.
Yeah, but that fact made some penises shrink, hence the outcry.
 

TomC

Celestial Highness
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
4,561
Location
Midwestern USA
Gender
Faggot
Basic Beliefs
Agnostic deist
they all true? Pregnancy begins with an ovulation, an ejaculation, fertilisation and an implantation.
You missed the crucial part.
Pregnancy begins when two gametes merge to form a new human being. All the ovulation and sperm production in the world won't result in a pregnancy, except under very specific and well understood conditions.

If that happens without mutual consent, we have a word for it. An ugly crime. It's rape.
If nothing else, I'd say that means it's pretty foolish for people to risk causing a pregnancy they doesn't want to happen when it's a risk so easily avoided.
Fixed that for you, making it non sex bigoted.
People risk pregnancy, not just men. And it is avoidable, by means of an available, safe, and 100% effective birth control method.

There are birth control methods nearly as effective, although not quite. If the woman is on The Pill and the man is rubbered up and it's a "safe" time in her menstrual cycle...

Not all of these things are as widely available around the globe as they are here in the USA. So, the USA is all I'm talking about.
Tom
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,961
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
I think they are saying they are equal.

I get that's what's being said.
Great, I was replying to Toni's post.
I'm saying they are NOT equal.

In current culture, women have complete responsibility for something that they have no control over. Men have no responsibility for something that they have complete control over. It takes both a sperm and an egg, but only one party has control over where their gametes are deposited. And that party is the one who is not expected to be responsible for their gametes.
And ultimately, this is the log jam.

Some guys: But she said I could do B, so she is equally responsible.
Gals: But you didn't have to B.
Some guys: But she said I could.

Those three lines have effectively taken 290 posts of this thread.

Ultimately, it is up to the guy (gals point). The woman... she can't do much with the ovulation thing, without going sterile. So, that risk in sorts a bit mitigatable, but ultimately, it is always shrouded in some level of gray. The guy, it isn't gray. How the semen are dealt with is pretty much 100% controllable. Some guys here want to mitigate that risk by blaming the woman for allowing him to introduce sperm into the equation, and there is some logic to that. But ultimately, if a guy doesn't want to get a woman pregnant... that is in his hands. Consent to be allowed to do something is not a pregnancy mitigation.

Kind of like driving a car and there is a situation where another car does something wrong, and you get into an accident, it is their fault... but if you hit the brakes, you avoid the accident. In the end, while the accident being their fault, your car was totaled. And that is quite the inconvenience.

Saying the woman is responsible because of consent post pregnancy isn't particularly helpful is PREVENTING A PREGNANCY!
 

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
6,682
Location
West Hollywood
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
In current culture, women have complete responsibility for something that they have no control over. Men have no responsibility for something that they have complete control over.
I don't think that is true nor is that what people are saying in regards to getting pregnant. I've certainly not said that. If a woman gets pregnant she is somewhat responsible for getting pregnant which is different to responsible for the consequences which does fall mostly (unfairly) on the woman.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
36,961
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
In current culture, women have complete responsibility for something that they have no control over. Men have no responsibility for something that they have complete control over.
I don't think that is true nor is that what people are saying in regards to getting pregnant. I've certainly not said that. If a woman gets pregnant she is somewhat responsible for getting pregnant which is different to responsible for the consequences which does fall mostly (unfairly) on the woman.
Today on the dumbest distinctions.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,331
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
If nothing else, I'd say that means it's pretty foolish for people to risk causing a pregnancy they doesn't want to happen when it's a risk so easily avoided.
Fixed that for you, making it non sex bigoted.
People risk pregnancy, not just men.
Men do not risk pregnancy. Men risk the potential consequencies of pregnancy. Only females risk pregnancy.
 

Toni

Contributor
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
15,551
Location
NOT laying back and thinking of England
Basic Beliefs
Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
If nothing else, I'd say that means it's pretty foolish for people to risk causing a pregnancy they doesn't want to happen when it's a risk so easily avoided.
Fixed that for you, making it non sex bigoted.
People risk pregnancy, not just men.
Men do not risk pregnancy. Men risk the potential consequencies of pregnancy. Only females risk pregnancy.
Men do not risk pregnancy. Men risk some of the potential consequences of pregnancy--they might have to pay child support. OTOH, married men and married men with children typically out-earn single men. Only women risk pregnancy. Women risk the physical complications and repercussions of pregnancy, as well as economic, educational and social consequences of pregnancy.
 

Metaphor

Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
11,298
Gender
None. on/ga/njegov
Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".
A woman engaged in consensual behaviour that caused her to be pregnant.

Why do you appear so hostile to the fact that eggs are as necessary as sperm in creating a pregnancy? I honestly don't understand it.
Any hostility on my part is purely imaginary.

Male hostility to the simple statement: Every pregnancy is the result of a man ejaculating, OTOH: That’s pretty substantial.
Every pregnancy is the result of a woman ovulating.
So, involuntary process on the part of woman > voluntary action on part of man.

Got it.
No, you don't have it. I don't know what your use of the greater than symbol means, but I'm certain it's wrong.

Every conception is the result of the fusion of a sperm and an egg. Unless nonconsent is involved, she is as responsible for the conception as the man is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom