Why are illegal migrants being brought to Italy?

[Derec]

That's right. If you want to invade a country, fuck your own country over and send over people who are desperate to leave and have no resources except smuggled drugs and ivory. Then have them take over the new country.

The individual migrants are going because of economic motives. But the effect of European countries being slowly taken over by 3rd world, mostly Muslim, migrants is still the same. And it's not like Muslim leaders did not foresee Muslim invasion of Europe.

 

[laughing dog]

Very few of the African migrants are actual refugees. Most are economic migrants.

That is up to the Italian or European authorities to determine.

Refugees are a subset of migrants. But vast majority of these people are not refugees. Besides, even if they were legit refugees, Europe cannot reasonably accommodate tens of millions of them.

That is up to the Europeans to determine, not you.

 

[Derec]

That is up to the Italian or European authorities to determine.

Refugees are a subset of migrants. But vast majority of these people are not refugees. Besides, even if they were legit refugees, Europe cannot reasonably accommodate tens of millions of them.

That is up to the Europeans to determine, not you.

So we are not allowed to discuss matters outside US in this forum? Or what is the purpose of your statement?

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Oh don't worry. I'm sure Derec wants to dump Cubans and other brown people back in the ocean, too.

Why are you all obsessed with them being "brown"? Do you really think US and Europe should take in all those who want to migrant into Europe/US even if that means the end of Europe or US as a western society?
Do you agree with European leftists that all borders should be abolished?

 

[laughing dog]

That is up to the Italian or European authorities to determine.
That is up to the Europeans to determine, not you.

So we are not allowed to discuss matters outside US in this forum?

Huh?

Or what is the purpose of your statement?

Unlike your blathering nonsense, it is a statement of fact.

 

[Derec]

Huh?

What does it matter if something is "for Europeans to determine". I can still have an opinion on it, and discuss it here.

Unlike your blathering nonsense, it is a statement of fact.

Actually your statement is blathering nonsense. This is Political Discussions. Matter that are up to other people to determine, not us, are routinely discussed here.

 

[Derec]

If Italian rescue crew brought them into Italy, then they are in a country that allowed them in.

Which is exactly why they should deposit them back where they came from. Allowing them (and giving them a free passage) is merely encouraging more migrants to come. How many boatloads are behind those who have already crossed?
I think many far-leftists hate western society and would want to see it defeated. Why else are they so eagerly aiding and abetting Qaddafi's plan?

 

[laughing dog]

What does it matter if something is "for Europeans to determine". I can still have an opinion on it, and discuss it here.

No one said otherwise. No one is stopping you from embarrassing yourself with your boring and persistent whines about refugees, migrants, black men/thugs, etc..... It appears you wish to keep people who disagree with you from discussing.

Actually your statement is blathering nonsense.

Not to anyone who can think.

This is Political Discussions. Matter that are up to other people to determine, not us, are routinely discussed here.

And you are blathering about this because....?

 

[Derec]

Your argument seems to depend almost entirely on on adolescent name calling. On calling refugees "invaders," "smugglers," "illegals," etc.

First of all, that is not "adolescent name calling" but more accurate depiction of what is going on than PC term "refugees". Very few, if any, of those crossing from north Africa are refugees. Most are economic migrants. They seek to enter EU illegally and participate in what is in effect a slow motion invasion which will make, in a few decades, Europe majority Muslim and have Europeans be minorities in their own countries.
Smugglers refers to those who (as the name says) smuggle these people into Europe. But they do not have to do that any more. All they have to do is set these migrants afloat off the African coast and European vessels will safely bring them most of the way free of charge. That keeps smugglers' cost down and enables them to do the same for millions more migrants. Out of misplaced compassion Europe is aiding its own destruction.

Let's just consider your favorite pejorative "illegals." Your knowledge of Italian law, assumed by your use of this tag, must be greater than mine. How do you know that it is illegal to enter Italy without proper immigration clearances?

That is a reasonable assumption. Do you have any evidence to the contrary.

It is not even certain that it is illegal in Italy to enter the country without going through proper immigration clearances. In the US, for example, it wasn't against the law until 1964. And then it was made only a federal class 3 misdemeanor, a lesser crime than speeding or depositing household trash in a federal government trash container.

I think it should be made a much greater offense, but that is beside the point. It is still illegal.

Rather than arresting the violators of this law, they would be issued a ticket and told to either pay the fine or to appear before a magistrate on a certain date. The US and I would believe most countries prefer to exercise the administrative alternative of deportation and to not charge the offenders under the law. They are no more an illegal or a criminal than the person who goes one mile an hour over the speed limit or who makes a turn without signaling.

Illegal turn is still an illegal turn. Illegal migration is still illegal migration, even if woefully underenforced and underpunished.

So what do you think EU should do? Allow everybody (10s of millions at least) who wants to come in from Africa to come in without restrictions? Give them free passage from north African shores to Italy?
I can't believe there are those on this, supposedly free thinking, forum that support this.

 

[fromderinside]

Europeans are wussies who, because they accept people into their homes, become victims of refugees.

So it is your theory then that the Mongols succeeded invading Europe because they fled from the Chinese who chased them back to the arid steppes thence to become refuges in an accepting dark age Europe?

Wow. History Derec style.

 

[laughing dog]

First of all, that is not "adolescent name calling" but more accurate depiction of what is going on than PC term "refugees".

Then you will stop complaining when people refer to your views as "misogynistic" or "racist".

 

[Derec]

No one said otherwise. No one is stopping you from embarrassing yourself with your boring and persistent whines about refugees, migrants, black men/thugs, etc..... It appears you wish to keep people who disagree with you from discussing.

You are not interested in discussing, you are only interested in insulting.
You really have no meaningful opinion on this (or many other topics) you are reflexively taking the position opposite to mine.

And you are blathering about this because....?

I am discussing this because it is an important topic. It is an existential threat to Europe in particular and the western world in general.

 

[fromderinside]

Then you will stop complaining when people refer to your views as "misogynistic" or "racist".

Good analysis laughing dog

 

[Derec]

So it is your theory that the Mongols succeeded invading Europe because they fled from the Chinese who chased them back to the arid steppes thence to become refuges in an accepting dark age Europe?

Did I say Mongol invasion of Europe is similar to what is going on today? No. So you are speaking nonsense.
But this Muslim invasion of Europe is much more dangerous because there are so many in Europe (and on this forum too) who just want to open the gates wide open and invite in all comers.

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Good analysis laughing dog

There was no analysis there, just insults and sticking one's head in the sand.

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Then you will stop complaining when people refer to your views as "misogynistic" or "racist".

Since my views are neither, no I will not.

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As generous as the policy toward fleeing Cubans was, even the US did not take Cubans who were caught with their feet wet.

But we did not let them sink and die if we could save them as you seem to be advocating:

In effect, these "rescues" are aiding and abetting smugglers and making their jobs easier - their flimsy vessels do not have to reach Italy, just float long enough for migrants to be 'rescued'.

No, I did not advocate letting them sink. If they are in genuine distress, rescue them and bring them back to where they stated from. This will keep them safe but will not make the crossing a success, so it will be less of an incentive for more migrants to try to cross.

 

[laughing dog]

Since my views are neither, no I will not.

Actually, there is more evidence to support those descriptions of your views than there is to support your claims about the refugees/migrants. Your double standard is obvious. You are not fooling anyone.

You are not interested in discussing, you are only interested in insulting.
You really have no meaningful opinion on this (or many other topics) you are reflexively taking the position opposite to mine.

That is untrue. What do your passive aggressive insults mean?

I am discussing this because it is an important topic. It is an existential threat to Europe in particular and the western world in general.

You are evading the point. I was specifically responding to your blather of

This is Political Discussions. Matter that are up to other people to determine, not us, are routinely discussed here.

No one is stopping you from discussing anything. However, when someone points out simple facts that shouldn't upset anyone, you throw a tantrum and make specious claims.

 

[fromderinside]

Did I say Mongol invasion of Europe is similar to what is going on today? No. So you are speaking nonsense.
But this Muslim invasion of Europe is much more dangerous because there are so many in Europe (and on this forum too) who just want to open the gates wide open and invite in all comers.

Seems you were characterizing the character of europeans a accepting dupes. All I did was carry it back to a previous invasion of europe. If you can characterize refugees as invaders then I can characterize invaders as refugees Its only fair.

 

[Derec]

I believe the reason Italy brings these refugees/migrants to Italy is that their previous policy of sending them back resulted in some drowning tragedies.

No, it is their attempts to cross the Mediterranean which result in drowning tragedies, not sending them back.
In fact, the opposite is true. Not sending them back encourages more crossings, putting more people at risk of drowning.

These people cannot possibly be illegal migrants. They are being brought into Italy by the government - which makes them legal migrants until otherwise determined.

This shysterism is all the more reason not to bring them into Italy.

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If you can characterize refugees as invaders then I can characterize invaders as refugees Its only fair.

That's what the left is already doing.

 

[Derec]

Actually, there is more evidence to support those descriptions of your views than there is to support your claims about the refugees/migrants.

No there isn't. I have explained why mass migration is a very bad thing. Those who deny it either have their heads stuck in the sand or actually want to damage/destroy western civilization (probably the latter for far left groups).

However, when someone points out simple facts that shouldn't upset anyone, you throw a tantrum and make specious claims.

Those are "facts" only in your mind. As is your characterization of my claims as "specious". But what else is new?

 

[fromderinside]

If you can characterize refugees as invaders then I can characterize invaders as refugees Its only fair.

That's what the left is already doing.

No that's what the world is doing. You are trying to turn being a refugee on its head, arm it, send them out to rape , kill, and pillage. Clearly you are trying to turn grief, dispossession, hardship, and being terrorized into resolve to kill the good Samaritans for some megalomaniac conservative adventure.

 

[laughing dog]

No there isn't.

Nope.

I have explained why mass migration is a very bad thing. Those who deny it either have their heads stuck in the sand or actually want to damage/destroy western civilization (probably the latter for far left groups).

You certainly have presented your fear-induced bigoted explanation.

Those are "facts" only in your mind.

The facts I stated is that is for the Europeans to determine what they will do about these refugees/migrants. You are losing whatever grip on reality you ever had.

 

[laughing dog]

No, it is their attempts to cross the Mediterranean which result in drowning tragedies, not sending them back.
In fact, the opposite is true. Not sending them back encourages more crossings, putting more people at risk of drowning.

Really, do you have any actual evidence to support your claims of fact?

This shysterism is all the more reason not to bring them into Italy.

That makes no sense. What else is new?