Why not Male Lives Matter?

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This goes twice to basic biology.

1. Males really ARE more violent as a group. So this is the ultimate case of judging people by their group rather than as individuals.

2. Men really ARE expendable regarding breeding and continuing the species. You only need one man to fertilize hundreds of women, so if population numbers are down and your goal is to continue the species, men are pretty worthless for that. There was a time in human history when this mattered, and maybe that is why human minds continue to think this way.

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How do you figure women would react to a protest group going around shouting "MALE LIVES MATTER"? Would the response be that these men are misogynists and that "ALL LIVES MATTER"?

The fact that males as a group are more violent does not legitimize the police summarily executing unarmed men.

You seem to be blaming the victims here.

Do you have statistics on this

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This goes twice to basic biology.

1. Males really ARE more violent as a group. So this is the ultimate case of judging people by their group rather than as individuals.

2. Men really ARE expendable regarding breeding and continuing the species. You only need one man to fertilize hundreds of women, so if population numbers are down and your goal is to continue the species, men are pretty worthless for that. There was a time in human history when this mattered, and maybe that is why human minds continue to think this way.

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How do you figure women would react to a protest group going around shouting "MALE LIVES MATTER"? Would the response be that these men are misogynists and that "ALL LIVES MATTER"?

The fact that males as a group are more violent does not legitimize the police summarily executing unarmed men.

You seem to be blaming the victims here.

Really? How did you get that impression from what I wrote?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The proportion of males, including unarmed males, killed by police is far greater, in proportion to their population, than the amount of females killed by police.

A staggering 95% of those killed by police are male, compared to being 49% of the population.

Males are also profiled and stopped much more frequently compared to females.

There is a systematic and institutional bias against men by the police and the criminal justice system. Over 90% of incarcerated individuals are men.

Where is the "male lives matter" movement to protest against this greater injustice?

Why don't males organize and protest the injustice of it?

if you don't have one, start one.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Maybe they will stop standing for the flag at football games until this is fixed.

 

[iolo]

Young male lives have always been expendable, because they don't have babies and seldom think deeply. They can therefore be used in armies or gangs to serve whatever evil bugger thinks it worth his while to fire 'em up.

I think his point is that should change.

Easier said than done, I think. In Sparta there was a rule that the only people who got individual gravestones were women who died in childbirth and men who died in battle, and I think that sort of view is traditional in all property-owning societies. The old men who control things don't need the competition, whereas they do 'need' to spread their genes, apparently, and most young men feel they have nothing to lose, have no vote, and go in for adventure. Think how many were wiped out for profit in World War 1 before anyone began to kick, and how that hugely reduced the talent available to run the failing European States and Empires.

 

[arkirk]

A quick answer...the cops have been killing black women too! Real simple THE PROBLEM IS BEING BLACK AND OUT WHERE WHITE AND SOMETIMES EVEN BLACK COPS CAN BE FRIGHTENED BY YOU...MAN OR WOMAN...IT HARDLY MATTERS.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

A quick answer...the cops have been killing black women too! Real simple THE PROBLEM IS BEING BLACK AND OUT WHERE WHITE AND SOMETIMES EVEN BLACK COPS CAN BE FRIGHTENED BY YOU...MAN OR WOMAN...IT HARDLY MATTERS.

For every black woman killed by cops many more non-black men are killed. Gender is a bigger gap than black and other races. So if you are going to put any emphasis on black women, you should probably put emphasis on victims of other races too. Better yet, why not just fight police brutality period, and stop being racist about it?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A quick answer...the cops have been killing black women too! Real simple THE PROBLEM IS BEING BLACK AND OUT WHERE WHITE AND SOMETIMES EVEN BLACK COPS CAN BE FRIGHTENED BY YOU...MAN OR WOMAN...IT HARDLY MATTERS.

For every black woman killed by cops many more non-black men are killed. Gender is a bigger gap than black and other races.

A couple of days ago I asked Axulus for statistics and *crickets*. From your claims, you should have them. Could you submit the statistics to the thread for all of us?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

For every black woman killed by cops many more non-black men are killed. Gender is a bigger gap than black and other races.

A couple of days ago I asked Axulus for statistics and *crickets*. From your claims, you should have them. Could you submit the statistics to the thread for all of us?

I suppose I could go look up stats... but it hardly seems worthwhile. Are you really doubting that non-black male victims outnumber female black victims? Do the news reports alone, the threads on here alone, and any reporting you have ever heard really leave any room for doubt on this? Who were the past five martyrs for BLM? All male? Ya.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A couple of days ago I asked Axulus for statistics and *crickets*. From your claims, you should have them. Could you submit the statistics to the thread for all of us?

I suppose I could go look up stats... but it hardly seems worthwhile. Are you really doubting that non-black male victims outnumber female black victims? Do the news reports alone, the threads on here alone, and any reporting you have ever heard really leave any room for doubt on this? Who were the past five martyrs for BLM? All male? Ya.

There are different conclusions one can reach based on the statistics, i.e, different statistical inferences...some I can see that neither you nor Axulus have thought of. Plus, it's not like I am so creative to come up with all the ideas a priori either. Therefore, I'd like to see the statistics.

 

[RVonse]

This goes twice to basic biology.

1. Males really ARE more violent as a group. So this is the ultimate case of judging people by their group rather than as individuals.

2. Men really ARE expendable regarding breeding and continuing the species. You only need one man to fertilize hundreds of women, so if population numbers are down and your goal is to continue the species, men are pretty worthless for that. There was a time in human history when this mattered, and maybe that is why human minds continue to think this way.

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How do you figure women would react to a protest group going around shouting "MALE LIVES MATTER"? Would the response be that these men are misogynists and that "ALL LIVES MATTER"?

+1 This

I would also add that scientifically on average, more males are born than females due only to effects of nature and biology being smart enough to know that males get killed much more often.

So it is an exclusive male privilege to be able to die sooner and more frequently than women.

 

[Mumbles]

The proportion of males, including unarmed males, killed by police is far greater, in proportion to their population, than the amount of females killed by police.

A staggering 95% of those killed by police are male, compared to being 49% of the population.

Males are also profiled and stopped much more frequently compared to females.

There is a systematic and institutional bias against men by the police and the criminal justice system. Over 90% of incarcerated individuals are men.

Where is the "male lives matter" movement to protest against this greater injustice?

Why don't males organize and protest the injustice of it?

if you don't have one, start one.

This should have ended it.

Also, the fact that Black Lives Matter was started by three black women - in response to Zimmerman's killing Trayvon Martin - may have had something to do with their emphasis on Black Lives.

It's not like too many folks rush out to condemn police that beat/rape/kill black women either, after all. I seem to remember a lot of mess about Sandra Bland, that teenager in the bikini that got slammed in Texas, that girl that got flung across her classroom by a cop...

Jeremy Mardis, however, got no such mess when he was killed, in fact the Black Lives Matter folks were pretty respectful. They indicted those two black cops who killed him pretty quick, too.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

So one black woman flung, and a dozen black men shot dead. You make the point of gender disparity. But all lives matter; male and female both and all races.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So one black woman flung, and a dozen black men shot dead. You make the point of gender disparity. But all lives matter; male and female both and all races.

No, all lives are supposed to matter, but they don't, and that's the point.

 

[iolo]

So one black woman flung, and a dozen black men shot dead. You make the point of gender disparity. But all lives matter; male and female both and all races.

No, all lives are supposed to matter, but they don't, and that's the point.

Particularly in a society that makes it an important constitutional right that nutters should easily obtain the means to kill

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

So one black woman flung, and a dozen black men shot dead. You make the point of gender disparity. But all lives matter; male and female both and all races.

No, all lives are supposed to matter, but they don't, and that's the point.

So you do share the concern in the OP over men being killed by police far more often than women are. Good to hear. Will you join the OP in doing something about it?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No, all lives are supposed to matter, but they don't, and that's the point.

So you do share the concern in the OP over men being killed by police far more often than women are. Good to hear. Will you join the OP in doing something about it?

You problem isn't with me, your problem is with the OTHER MALES doing to the shooting and killing.

What exactly is the OP doing about anything?

 

[laughing dog]

So one black woman flung, and a dozen black men shot dead. You make the point of gender disparity. But all lives matter; male and female both and all races.

Other than posting condescending drivel in forums, what action are you taking to right this terrible wrong?

 

[Malintent]

... it reminds them that men black people as a group are a bit more violent and dangerous than women white people. And any actual differences between the genders races (like this) might justify different social roles in society that they object to.

Like that?

If not, then how different?

 

[Malintent]

First of all, questions such as these are predicated on a false premise, namely that the phrase "black lives matter" actually means "ONLY black lives matter". It doesn't. Implicit in the why not of the OP is the requirement that BLM should ensure that every group with a legitimate grievance is encompassed by their motto. This requirement does not seem to extend to all other groups who claim they are discriminated against. For instance, I've never heard of anybody ask: "why not have a HUMAN anti-defamation league?" For some reason, the "_____ lives matter" meme has provoked a reaction that interprets it as an exclusionary statement, rather than a plea for inclusion.

I'd really like to be able to agree with you on this point... which is to say, I wish that were true.

I do not believe it is.

The kind of racism I have personally been victim of from black people (male and female), the prevalence of that racism, and the reaction of other black people to that racism has very clearly, with no shadow of a doubt at all, indicated to me that, without question, "black lives matter" is certainly a continuation of the long-standing form of "reverse racism" that is widely considered "OK" by that community.

How hard would it have been for the slogan to be "Black Lives Matter Too" or "BLM2".

It is clearly intentionally exclusive.