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Why people are afraid of universal health care

Loren Pechtel

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Short version:
Suspicious spot on her mammogram. Six months in and she's had an ultrasound but not yet a biopsy.

My wife has been down that road--suspicious spot/ultrasound/biopsy. It took less than two hours. We were arguing with the insurance about it six months later but that was just because we didn't realize the futility of trying to get it fixed by talking to the billing people. When we turned it around and took it up with the organization up the tree they realized that the denial was stupid and fixed it. (Somebody entered the wrong date for the authorization.)
 
I can't even.

What has to be broken in a person's brain for them to think that one fairly trivial story of a short delay in getting a diagnostic procedure - something that also occasionally happens for fully insured patients in the US system - somehow outweighs all of the horrific consequences of the US system, and is therefore a reason to fear universal health care?

How long do uninsured women in the US have to wait for a biopsy? Is waiting their biggest problem? Do they even get a biopsy at all?

Is the whole business of being an uninsured patient in the US, who suspects she might have cancer, such a stress free stroll in the park that nobody would swap it for the hellish nightmare of the system in Canada (which is, of course, indistinguishable from the completely different UHC systems in other OECD nations - basically there are two healthcare regimes: The American Way and The Wrong Way).

FFS. I seriously can't even.

What is wrong with you?? Who would post this story with that as the headline, other than as a woefully bad attempt at satire?

And to then include this gem as an aside in the anecdote about how much better the US system is:

We were arguing with the insurance about it six months later

I have never argued with health insurance about anything, ever. No insurer has ever told me what treatment I can or can't have, or which hospitals or clinics I can or can't attend. If I need a diagnostic test, I get one. And am out of pocket no more than the cost of parking at the hospital (which is admittedly hair-raisingly expensive, but we are talking tens of dollars, not thousands).
 
Last edited:
I can't even.
. . .
Is the whole business of being an uninsured patient in the US, who suspects she might have cancer, such a stress free stroll in the park that nobody would swap it for the hellish nightmare of the system in Canada (which is, of course, indistinguishable from the completely different UHC systems in other OECD nations - basically there are two healthcare regimes: The American Way and The Wrong Way).

FFS. I seriously can't even.

What is wrong with you?? Who would post this story with that as the headline, other than as a woefully bad attempt at satire?

I find myself agreeing with bilby totally.

From thread title I expected more serious discussion of Why some Americans are afraid of universal health care?
AFAICT the answer to THAT question includes two major points:

(1) Some white Americans would rather do without health care than to know that black people, immigrants, and other undeserving people are being treated by the taxpayer's bond-buyer's dime. Sounds ridiculous, but there is much anecdotal evidence for this.
(2) American companies with an interest AGAINST public funding have billions to spend on propaganda. For example, they've created an often-believed myth that VA Health care has major problems. Instead, the reality is that VA patient satisfaction is on a par with that of patients with high-quality private insurance plans.

. . .
And am out of pocket no more than the cost of parking at the hospital (which is admittedly hair-raisingly expensive, but we are talking tens of dollars, not thousands).

On my first visit to London I stepped on a nail at a sauna, and thought it wise to stop at an ER for a tetanus booster. After minimal wait I got my shot. I asked what I owed and ... they just looked at me funny, what a stupid question!

In Thailand I needed aspirins and stopped to buy them at the local public hospital. I made the mistake of mentioning chest pains and they rushed me to ER for an EKG. As I was paying for my aspirins, a doctor rushed over to add $7 to the bill. He'd overlooked that I was a foreigner so not entitled to a free EKG!

(But if you're in Thailand and need expert care, do NOT go to a public hospital. The most expensive private hospitals here are the best in the region and charge only a fraction of what U.S. hospitals charge. Pay 100% for excellent care -- it may be less than the CO-pay in U.S. with enough left over for airfare and a wonderful holiday!)
 
Insurance is all about pool size, right?
The more in the pool the better coverage.
What if everyone paid what I pay for Medicare each month?
Families with kids would be more.
The pool would be like 200,000,000.
Could it work?
 
I can't even.

What has to be broken in a person's brain for them to think that one fairly trivial story of a short delay in getting a diagnostic procedure - something that also occasionally happens for fully insured patients in the US system - somehow outweighs all of the horrific consequences of the US system, and is therefore a reason to fear universal health care?
Conservatives tend to have nothing but logical fallacies for their arguments.
 
Conservatives tend to have nothing but logical fallacies for their arguments.
Hmmm. They have their logical fallacies PLUS untold ill-gotten billions to back it up. It’s a piece of cake to sell their logical fallacies to the collective drooling moron that is the American public.
 
Conservatives tend to have nothing but logical fallacies for their arguments.
Hmmm. They have their logical fallacies PLUS untold ill-gotten billions to back it up. It’s a piece of cake to sell their logical fallacies to the collective drooling moron that is the American public.

"See, the left is as bad as the right! They insult the other side too!!! WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??"
 

Short version:
Suspicious spot on her mammogram. Six months in and she's had an ultrasound but not yet a biopsy.
Your OP forgot to mention the disparity of breast cancer detections, successful treatments, and deaths between UHC nations and the United States.

I'm certain it was a silly oversight on your part and that you weren't actually trying to base your opinion on large scale medical outcomes between private and UHC funded Health Care systems simply on anecdotal evidence presented on a blog.
 
I can't even.

What has to be broken in a person's brain for them to think that one fairly trivial story of a short delay in getting a diagnostic procedure - something that also occasionally happens for fully insured patients in the US system - somehow outweighs all of the horrific consequences of the US system, and is therefore a reason to fear universal health care?
If it is cancer six months is a huge delay. But since it isn't confirmed cancer it's low priority.

What is wrong with you?? Who would post this story with that as the headline, other than as a woefully bad attempt at satire?
You think them basically playing Russian Roulette with her life is a reasonable approach?? Because that's what they are doing. (The odds that a biopsy finds cancer are about the odds in Russian Roulette--and finding it early is the key with cancer.)

I have never argued with health insurance about anything, ever. No insurer has ever told me what treatment I can or can't have, or which hospitals or clinics I can or can't attend. If I need a diagnostic test, I get one. And am out of pocket no more than the cost of parking at the hospital (which is admittedly hair-raisingly expensive, but we are talking tens of dollars, not thousands).
Just because everything happens behind the scenes in your system doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
 

Short version:
Suspicious spot on her mammogram. Six months in and she's had an ultrasound but not yet a biopsy.
Your OP forgot to mention the disparity of breast cancer detections, successful treatments, and deaths between UHC nations and the United States.

I'm certain it was a silly oversight on your part and that you weren't actually trying to base your opinion on large scale medical outcomes between private and UHC funded Health Care systems simply on anecdotal evidence presented on a blog.
Strangely, not something they crow about. My memory is that they're more likely to find it, we are more likely to cure it if found.
 
I can't even.

What has to be broken in a person's brain for them to think that one fairly trivial story of a short delay in getting a diagnostic procedure - something that also occasionally happens for fully insured patients in the US system - somehow outweighs all of the horrific consequences of the US system, and is therefore a reason to fear universal health care?
If it is cancer six months is a huge delay. But since it isn't confirmed cancer it's low priority.

What is wrong with you?? Who would post this story with that as the headline, other than as a woefully bad attempt at satire?
You think them basically playing Russian Roulette with her life is a reasonable approach?? Because that's what they are doing. (The odds that a biopsy finds cancer are about the odds in Russian Roulette--and finding it early is the key with cancer.)

I have never argued with health insurance about anything, ever. No insurer has ever told me what treatment I can or can't have, or which hospitals or clinics I can or can't attend. If I need a diagnostic test, I get one. And am out of pocket no more than the cost of parking at the hospital (which is admittedly hair-raisingly expensive, but we are talking tens of dollars, not thousands).
Just because everything happens behind the scenes in your system doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
My mum had a routine mammogram - bulk billed and so free - which found a spot….within three months it was biopsied, radiation seeded and removed and 6 weeks of radiation therapy completed. All covered by our UHC.

Australia doesn’t fuck around with shit like that.

Personally I had problems with my periods…when I got a dr to listen to me, I was ultrasounded, sent to a gyno and operated on within 2 weeks.

As I said Australia doesn’t fuck around with trivial nonsense like who’s going to pay….. they just get it done!

FFS, I had 3 knee surgeries in a private hospital with a private surgeon over a 5 month period…total co-pay (as you call it) was $250 excess on the hospital. Insurance paid around $18000 IIRC. And I only know that because they sent us a statement.

It’s reassuring knowing I can go to the dr, or ER, And get treatment and not worry about the cost.

So I pay an extra $1000 in taxes per year for this health care…. I don’t care…if it helps people stay well then what’s $1000 to me?
 
I don't understand why anyone could oppose universal healthcare and say the incident in the op is a rare occasion.

I'd like to know if legally speaking if anyone I know is against universal healthcare ends up getting hurt or their spouse or kids or needs some sort of help if I could just ignore them and let them die, or if I have to do something legally what the bare minimum is. That's how I'm starting to think. If you don't think your fellow man deserves health care you don't deserve life or care if in need yourself. In no way am I saying do anything illegal but my patience is at an end.
 
I've heard many similar stories. Canuckistanians go to US for doctor appointments because wait is too long.
I think health care is ripe for massive AI replacement of human doctors.
AI can go through symptoms and make a correct determination way more accurate than average doctor.
 

Short version:
Suspicious spot on her mammogram. Six months in and she's had an ultrasound but not yet a biopsy.
Your OP forgot to mention the disparity of breast cancer detections, successful treatments, and deaths between UHC nations and the United States.

I'm certain it was a silly oversight on your part and that you weren't actually trying to base your opinion on large scale medical outcomes between private and UHC funded Health Care systems simply on anecdotal evidence presented on a blog.
Strangely, not something they crow about. My memory is that they're more likely to find it, we are more likely to cure it if found.*
* claim unsubstantiated
 
Let me get the OP straight. There is an anecdotal horror story under private for-profit health insurance, so people are afraid of public universal non-profit health insurance?

I am sorry, but that does not make much sense to me. Would someone please provide a rational explanation?
 
I've heard many similar stories. Canuckistanians go to US for doctor appointments because wait is too long.
I think health care is ripe for massive AI replacement of human doctors.
AI can go through symptoms and make a correct determination way more accurate than average doctor.
More Americans go to Mexico than Canadians come to the US.
 
I've heard many similar stories. Canuckistanians go to US for doctor appointments because wait is too long.
I think health care is ripe for massive AI replacement of human doctors.
AI can go through symptoms and make a correct determination way more accurate than average doctor.
More Americans go to Mexico than Canadians come to the US.
Yes, americans go for cheaper price and canadians go for urgency.
 
I've heard many similar stories. Canuckistanians go to US for doctor appointments because wait is too long.
I think health care is ripe for massive AI replacement of human doctors.
AI can go through symptoms and make a correct determination way more accurate than average doctor.
More Americans go to Mexico than Canadians come to the US.
Yes, americans go for cheaper price and canadians go for urgency.
So it's only rich Canadians doing it.
 
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