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Why YEC can seem plausible

I claimed humans didn't all simultaneously appear in multiple places.



I made this definitive statement - Humans didn't all simultaneously appear in multiple places.
They share a common ancestry.

or discuss the facts presented in the link...

Yep. Facts.
Which verify my claim.

- which he likely believes adds up to plausible deniability if he is challenged.

If I'm challenged?
Sure. I'll wait. Lemme know if you got anything that amounts to a 'challenge' to my factual claim.

Hints and innuendo, that is all he does.

So far you're the one doing all the hinting - about some forthcoming 'challenge'. It's your game of innuendo pal.
Why don't you use the quote function instead of oblique references to some "earlier claim" and what you imagine I'm 'suggesting' and what you believe it all... adds up to.

Lets do that.

LionIRC claims that modern humans are all descended from the survivors of Noah's ark:
We can argue about that but why bother? If we want to conjure up multiple ancestors rather than a single common ancestory for all humans in Genesis it's a short-lived ancestry because Noah's Ark hits the reset button.

Said claim is challenged and refuted:
Ummm, no. The Noachian flood story is demonstrably untrue. There is no evidence of a Noachian flood in the geology record. None at all. Even more damning for your case, there is no evidence of a genetic bottleneck in humans or other lifeforms on the planet consistent with a Noachian flood type global extermination event. Noah's flood is a made up story, at least on the planetary scale described in the Bible. Did you really not know that?

LionIRC responds:
Humans didn't all simultaneously appear in multiple places.
They share a common ancestry.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

This post is clearly in response to the refutation of the claim that all humans are descended from Noah's ark. There is no other context that LionIRC's post can be viewed in. LionIRC does NOT DIRECTLY state that his link was provided to support his earlier claim, but that is strongly implied. The link does NOT support LionIRC's claim, and this is pointed out by myself and by Rhea.

Humans didn't all simultaneously appear in multiple places.
They share a common ancestry.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

It sounds like you are claiming Eve lived 155,000 years ago.

According to your link, she was also not the FIRST woman, and she was also not the ONLY woman a the time, and she is also not the ONLY female ancestor of all women. And moreover “she” is not one person, she is an ever moving target, as some of her branches die out, then a more recent woman becomes the ancestor of all.

She is the most recent woman for whom there is an unbroken matrilineal line. But, also accoding to the article, there are women alive today who descended from other women as well, just not in an inbroken line.


Is this what you meant with your link, then? That you “Eve” lived 155,000 years ago (oh, and your “Adam” another 30K years before that, according to your link, and so obvioulsy not her mate,) and that she doesn’t represent a specific person?


So interesting.

He is not claiming anything. He is posting a link that is unrelated to his earlier claim in an attempt to suggest that the two are somehow related, and that the link provides evidence to support his position. Which it doesn't. He is careful not to make any definitive statements or discuss the facts presented in the link - which he likely believes adds up to plausible deniability if he is challenged. Hints and innuendo, that is all he does.


As predicted in Post 167, we see LionIRC's latest Post #170, which demonstrates the very behavior that was predicted earlier. LionIRC tried to deceive us by implying that his claims related to the Noachian flood are supported by scientific evidence. When it is pointed out that that is not true, he falls back to his default position of denying that he ever made such a claim, or implied such a connection, again, not directly, but by attacking something irrelevant to the core discussion, that all humans descended from Noah's ark. Hints and innuendo, that is all he has. Its all a game of deception through diversion.

And we are still waiting for LionIRC to explain why there is no evidence in the geologic and genetic record for a Noachian flood. That is what we should be talking about, but LionIRC is not going to touch this live rail, because that would be fatal for his cause.
 
.....There is no evidence of a Noachian flood in the geology record. None at all.....
A fossil of a fish still eating:

https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fascinating-fossils-glimpse-creation-museum-collection/
fossil-fish.jpg


See also post #142

These things are seen as evidence by YECs even if they might technically not be evidence.

Do you believe that this fossil should be considered evidence for a global extinction event from just a few thousand years ago in which all life on the planet was exterminated, save for those present on a wooden boat? Are you unable to come up with a naturalistic explanation as to how such a fossil may have originated, assuming this fossil is even real? Otherwise, why bring it up? There are a lot of batshit-crazy people in the world who believe all manner of batshit-crazy things. Should we spend a lot of time and effort assessing such claims?
 
...
And we are still waiting for LionIRC to explain why there is no evidence in the geologic and genetic record for a Noachian flood. That is what we should be talking about, but LionIRC is not going to touch this live rail, because that would be fatal for his cause.

It's easy to explain why there is no geological or genetic evidence for the flood of Genesis. It never happened.

Anyone who claims there is such evidence is either deluded or being disingenuous. Physical evidence which might fit their scenario is shoe horned into the story and anything which conflicts is simply ignored. It's truly one of the most pointless debates ever proposed.
 
Obviously we can't watch any footage of the flood, but really... Is it that hard to believe seriously, as a valid theory when 72% of the Earth is covered by water?

Yes, it's that hard to believe.

The continents are mostly above sea level, and (apart from a tiny littoral fraction) have been since the first liquid water began to pool on the Earth.

When the Earth solidified, the crust was basically Basaltic rock, with some lighter Granitic inclusions. These Granitic rocks are lighter than the Basaltic rock, so they float on it and sit higher above the centre of mass of the planet. They also tend not to subduct at plate boundaries - the Basaltic plates push this Granitic debris around, and it gets swept into great mounds we call continents.

At no time since the surface cooled to below the boiling point of water has there been enough water on Earth to completely cover this higher floating continental material.

Even the most cursory understanding of the structure of the Earth's surface, and the major components of that surface (initially just Basaltic rocks, Granitic rocks, and later liquid water) makes it apparent that there have always been areas of rocky surface not covered by liquid water.

The amount of additional water that would be required to raise ocean levels to the height of the highest mountains is literally astronomical.

The whole YEC position is predicated on a credulity and lack of understanding in so many disparate fields as to be beyond laughable. If geology was the one area where experts disagreed with creationists, then it might be possible to imagine that it is the geologists who are mistaken. But YEC ideas are demonstrably at odds with not just geology, but also paeleontology, hydrology, genetics, meteorology, history, radioactivity, molecular biology, physical law, common sense, logic, and humility. And probably several others that don't immediately spring to mind.

Any one of those fields can tell you that YEC is wrong. Each on its own should be sufficient. But you're not up against any one of these. To justify YEC, you must dismiss major components of them all.
 
...
And we are still waiting for LionIRC to explain why there is no evidence in the geologic and genetic record for a Noachian flood. That is what we should be talking about, but LionIRC is not going to touch this live rail, because that would be fatal for his cause.

It's easy to explain why there is no geological or genetic evidence for the flood of Genesis. It never happened.

Anyone who claims there is such evidence is either deluded or being disingenuous. Physical evidence which might fit their scenario is shoe horned into the story and anything which conflicts is simply ignored. It's truly one of the most pointless debates ever proposed.


I have no expectation that the poster I was responding to is going to engage in any conversation resembling a debate. I was pointing out the flaws in his claims, and drawing attention to the deceptive practices he apparently employs to support them.
 
LionIRC responds:
Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
Humans didn't all simultaneously appear in multiple places.
They share a common ancestry.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
This post is clearly in response to the refutation of the claim that all humans are descended from Noah's ark. There is no other context that LionIRC's post can be viewed in. LionIRC does NOT DIRECTLY state that his link was provided to support his earlier claim, but that is strongly implied.

Obviously you don't believe anything written in the bible. I thought you were willing and able to engage in a theoretical discussion ad arguendo about a MCRA whom we shall call 'Eve'.

Did you not realise this thread is about YEC theories and whether or not the text of Genesis allows scope for the possibility that Adam and Eve were not the first and only first parents of all decendant humans...that Cain didn't necessarily marry a blood relative.

Did you miss the discussion about Nephilim?

Even if you didn't think all humans came from such a single maternal DNA bottleneck, (as per the bible,) the same bottleneck is presented by a global flood event (Noah).

I know you're busting to start a derail about geology and debunking the biblical Flood but that's off topic and irrelevant because...

Addressing the OP:

There is no need to give counter-arguments for these things - I am already aware of that. And creationists have counter-counter-arguments for just about everything... even regarding the main reason I gave up on YEC, the Green River Formation.
 
Even if you didn't think all humans came from such a single maternal DNA bottleneck, (as per the bible,)

The bible doesn't mention DNA.

And mitochondrial Eve doesn't represent a DNA bottleneck; She was a part of a large genetic pool of humans who coexisted with her, and who contributed to the genetic makeup of her offspring. They didn't contribute mitochondrial DNA, but that's a minuscule fraction of the human genome. Every current gene has a singular common ancestor, but all of them are likely widely disparate in place and/or time from one another. The only thing "special" about mitochondrial DNA is that it is only inherited from one parent, making it possible to estimate the date at which a most recent common ancestor might have lived. Y-chromosomes are the only other genetic material that can be traced in a similar way, and such tracing demonstrates that Y-chromosomal Adam never met Mitochondrial Eve, because they lived tens of thousands of years apart.

Similar separation in time would no doubt be found were it possible to date the MRCA for other chromosomes and individual genes or gene fragments. Indeed, some highly conserved genes (ones that code for life critical proteins where few mutations are survivable) can be traced to common ancestors that lived well before humans, primates, and in some cases mammals, even existed.

The bible is, as usual, wrong in every significant respect. You can believe any old crap if you ignore all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
.....There is no evidence of a Noachian flood in the geology record. None at all.....
A fossil of a fish still eating:

https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fascinating-fossils-glimpse-creation-museum-collection/
fossil-fish.jpg


See also post #142

These things are seen as evidence by YECs even if they might technically not be evidence.

That isn't evidence for a flood.
You mean not a global flood. My point is that YECs think things like the rapid burial of the fish and the things in post #142 are good evidence of a global flood.
Have you ever studied how a fossil made? Floods leave behind very distinctive layers that are very easily identified. I studied it in college in Pacific NW. We were able to very easily identify several large local floods in several different beaches in the NW. But there is no evidence of a large global flood. There is evidence of a large regional flood in the middle east around 7,500 years ago which would coincide with the biblical flood story. If you're curious, here's a great story on it:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/evidence-for-a-flood-102813115/
Thanks for the link!
 
.....There is no evidence of a Noachian flood in the geology record. None at all.....
A fossil of a fish still eating:

https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fascinating-fossils-glimpse-creation-museum-collection/
fossil-fish.jpg


See also post #142

These things are seen as evidence by YECs even if they might technically not be evidence.

Do you believe that this fossil should be considered evidence for a global extinction event from just a few thousand years ago in which all life on the planet was exterminated, save for those present on a wooden boat? Are you unable to come up with a naturalistic explanation as to how such a fossil may have originated, assuming this fossil is even real?
I don't believe in a global flood
Otherwise, why bring it up? There are a lot of batshit-crazy people in the world who believe all manner of batshit-crazy things. Should we spend a lot of time and effort assessing such claims?
Well I used to be a YEC but eventually became open minded. I looked at anti creationist books but YEC books I had read had what seemed like good counterarguments to those books. Eventually I was deconverted by a former YEC, Ed Babinski. BTW a significant number of people with scientific qualifications believe in YEC. (at least compared to flat earth) Their qualifications and arguments impress less qualified YECs...
 
Obviously we can't watch any footage of the flood, but really... Is it that hard to believe seriously, as a valid theory when 72% of the Earth is covered by water?

Yes, it's that hard to believe.

The continents are mostly above sea level, and (apart from a tiny littoral fraction) have been since the first liquid water began to pool on the Earth.

When the Earth solidified, the crust was basically Basaltic rock, with some lighter Granitic inclusions. These Granitic rocks are lighter than the Basaltic rock, so they float on it and sit higher above the centre of mass of the planet. They also tend not to subduct at plate boundaries - the Basaltic plates push this Granitic debris around, and it gets swept into great mounds we call continents.

At no time since the surface cooled to below the boiling point of water has there been enough water on Earth to completely cover this higher floating continental material.

I'm not sure this is a logical proposition seeing it that way, when looking from the 'spatial reasoning' context. Meaning the proportionate size in volume on the grand scale. The oceans in scale compared with the earth land mass. You are talking from a small scale perspective, like an ant sees volumes of water in great big puddles, wondering that many puddle-sized volumes of water would be so great, in order to flood the earth (for lack of a better analogy).

On the grandest of scale, seeing from outside shall we say - you could estimate the picture in scale e.g., the water required to cover ALL of the land would be like a thin layer in proportion to the earths land-mass, size and depth. So in proportionate comparisons in scale, NOT MUCH water is actually required to cover the whole Earth.

Transition-zone-diamond-volcano-moltan-eruption-shows-moisture-water-under-the-crust-ocean-rare-.jpg
 

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And we are still waiting for LionIRC to explain why there is no evidence in the geologic and genetic record for a Noachian flood. That is what we should be talking about, but LionIRC is not going to touch this live rail, because that would be fatal for his cause.

It's easy to explain why there is no geological or genetic evidence for the flood of Genesis. It never happened.

Anyone who claims there is such evidence is either deluded or being disingenuous. Physical evidence which might fit their scenario is shoe horned into the story and anything which conflicts is simply ignored. It's truly one of the most pointless debates ever proposed.

I'd be a little bit careful here. It does seem incredibly unlikely that there was a global flood. We don't see any evidence of it. And it would stick out like a sore thumb. But we should be careful to point out that our side can be convinced with evidence. And it can be falsified. The "other side" (poor choice of words) doesn't have evidence for it's claims and probably can't be falsified.
 
Obviously we can't watch any footage of the flood, but really... Is it that hard to believe seriously, as a valid theory when 72% of the Earth is covered by water?

Yes, it's that hard to believe.

The continents are mostly above sea level, and (apart from a tiny littoral fraction) have been since the first liquid water began to pool on the Earth.

When the Earth solidified, the crust was basically Basaltic rock, with some lighter Granitic inclusions. These Granitic rocks are lighter than the Basaltic rock, so they float on it and sit higher above the centre of mass of the planet. They also tend not to subduct at plate boundaries - the Basaltic plates push this Granitic debris around, and it gets swept into great mounds we call continents.

At no time since the surface cooled to below the boiling point of water has there been enough water on Earth to completely cover this higher floating continental material.

I'm not sure this is a logical proposition seeing it that way, when looking from the 'spatial reasoning' context.
It has fuck all to do with context. There's not enough water on or in the planet to cover the highest parts of the continental crust.
Meaning the proportionate size in volume on the grand scale. The oceans in scale compared with the earth land mass. You are talking from a small scale perspective, like an ant sees volumes of water in great big puddles, wondering that many puddle-sized volumes of water would be so great, in order to flood the earth (for lack of a better analogy).
No, I am saying that the total amount of water isn't sufficient to do the job. It's completely irrelevant what perspective you take; It's a brute fact.
On the grandest of scale, seeing from outside shall we say - you could estimate the picture in scale e.g., the water required to cover ALL of the land would be like a thin layer in proportion to the earths land-mass, size and depth. So in proportionate comparisons in scale, NOT MUCH water is actually required to cover the whole Earth.
Whether you say 'a lot' or 'not much', it's still 'more than exists on the planet'.

Yeah, some water ends up in the mantle at subduction zones. But not much, and certainly not nearly as much as the volume of Granitic rock that emerges from the mid-oceanic ridges and is eventually added to the continents via tectonic motion.

Your "argument" here seems to be along the lines of "If you know as little about geology as I do, then you might be able to convince yourself that there is a non-zero possibility that enough water exists on Earth to completely cover the continents".

It's literally an argument from ignorance, seasoned with the desperate hope that everyone else is equally ignorant, and so won't dismiss your position for the handwaved nonsense that it actually is.

Not that it would help much. Even if I were sufficiently badly informed as to give credence to your claim that there is sufficient water hidden in the mantle to cover the continents, I would still need a reason to believe that it all came out into the oceans (via rainfall, allegedly), at some point in the last few thousand years; AND that it then returned to the mantle via subduction within forty days. Which is bug nuts crazy.

And even were I to accept all of the necessary geological insanity you propose to get the water on to the surface, and then off it again, you still need to explain why these dramatic changes left no trace whatsoever in the geological record.

And all of that only addresses the geologists objections to the overall claim of a global flood. The objections from paeleontology, hydrology, genetics, meteorology, history, radioactivity, molecular biology, physical law, common sense, logic, and humility still need to be considered.

To the OP question, 'plausibile' implies either 'doesn't contradict anything already held to be true' or 'provides adequate evidence to justify overturning pre-existing beliefs that contradict the claim'. To someone who knows nothing, nothing is implausible. But the more you know, the fewer plausible claims there are. YEC contradicts vast swathes of human knowledge, most of which has been thoroughly tested against reality. It's possible to find YEC plausible ONLY by discarding those vast swathes of human knowledge; Or by deliberately avoiding learning them. The number of educational fields that you must be hugely ignorant of in order to find YEC plausible is astonishing. Geology is just one of those many fields.
 
....To the OP question, 'plausibile' implies either 'doesn't contradict anything already held to be true' or 'provides adequate evidence to justify overturning pre-existing beliefs that contradict the claim'. To someone who knows nothing, nothing is implausible. But the more you know, the fewer plausible claims there are. YEC contradicts vast swathes of human knowledge, most of which has been thoroughly tested against reality. It's possible to find YEC plausible ONLY by discarding those vast swathes of human knowledge; Or by deliberately avoiding learning them. The number of educational fields that you must be hugely ignorant of in order to find YEC plausible is astonishing. Geology is just one of those many fields.
I think it is a bit more complicated than that. When I was in high school I had a lot of YEC books and magazines.... one was a 400 page book devoted to "ape-man" fossils....
104241.jpg


Another was a book full of counter-arguments called the Answers book.

Here is the latest version of that:
https://answersingenesis.org/store/product/new-answers-book-combo/
That collection has more than 100 counter-arguments to common objections to YEC.

In 1996 the local library had two anti-YEC books. The first one was professional but I didn't find it persuasive because I was already familiar with related counter-arguments.

The other book was the Australian anti-YEC book, "Telling Lies for God". I criticized it on my "dirt or slime" website:
https://web.archive.org/web/2000030...cities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4123/HYPMAIN.HTM

I wrote "...I only give a few examples for each catergory of error to reduce loading times and personal effort....." (and I was being serious)

Also:
Anti-Creationists quoted about "Telling Lies For God"
"...the book really is riddled with errors and omissions of crucial facts." - Jim Lippard
"...Plimer's new book is a shoddily-written polemic that, in places, verges on the hysterical." - Jeffrey Shallit

These are all problems that I found as a first year university math student.

Even though I'm no longer a YEC I think I am good at rapidly finding YEC counter-arguments for most anti-YEC topics....
 
...
And we are still waiting for LionIRC to explain why there is no evidence in the geologic and genetic record for a Noachian flood. That is what we should be talking about, but LionIRC is not going to touch this live rail, because that would be fatal for his cause.

It's easy to explain why there is no geological or genetic evidence for the flood of Genesis. It never happened.

Anyone who claims there is such evidence is either deluded or being disingenuous. Physical evidence which might fit their scenario is shoe horned into the story and anything which conflicts is simply ignored. It's truly one of the most pointless debates ever proposed.

I'd be a little bit careful here. It does seem incredibly unlikely that there was a global flood. We don't see any evidence of it. And it would stick out like a sore thumb. But we should be careful to point out that our side can be convinced with evidence. And it can be falsified. The "other side" (poor choice of words) doesn't have evidence for it's claims and probably can't be falsified.

Unlike a lot of the people who comment on these things, I don't care if a creationist's mind is changed by anything I say. My statement on the matter is a creationist is either intellectually deficient, or intellectually dishonest. Winning them over is not on my list of things to do today, and tomorrow doesn't look good, either.
 
....To the OP question, 'plausibile' implies either 'doesn't contradict anything already held to be true' or 'provides adequate evidence to justify overturning pre-existing beliefs that contradict the claim'. To someone who knows nothing, nothing is implausible. But the more you know, the fewer plausible claims there are. YEC contradicts vast swathes of human knowledge, most of which has been thoroughly tested against reality. It's possible to find YEC plausible ONLY by discarding those vast swathes of human knowledge; Or by deliberately avoiding learning them. The number of educational fields that you must be hugely ignorant of in order to find YEC plausible is astonishing. Geology is just one of those many fields.
I think it is a bit more complicated than that. When I was in high school I had a lot of YEC books and magazines.... one was a 400 page book devoted to "ape-man" fossils....
104241.jpg


Another was a book full of counter-arguments called the Answers book.

Here is the latest version of that:
https://answersingenesis.org/store/product/new-answers-book-combo/
That collection has more than 100 counter-arguments to common objections to YEC.

In 1996 the local library had two anti-YEC books. The first one was professional but I didn't find it persuasive because I was already familiar with related counter-arguments.

The other book was the Australian anti-YEC book, "Telling Lies for God". I criticized it on my "dirt or slime" website:
https://web.archive.org/web/2000030...cities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4123/HYPMAIN.HTM

I wrote "...I only give a few examples for each catergory of error to reduce loading times and personal effort....." (and I was being serious)

Also:
Anti-Creationists quoted about "Telling Lies For God"
"...the book really is riddled with errors and omissions of crucial facts." - Jim Lippard
"...Plimer's new book is a shoddily-written polemic that, in places, verges on the hysterical." - Jeffrey Shallit

These are all problems that I found as a first year university math student.

Even though I'm no longer a YEC I think I am good at rapidly finding YEC counter-arguments for most anti-YEC topics....

Reality isn't a debating society, and arguments don't stand or fall based on how convincing they sound, but only on how well they conform with observation.

The body of knowledge we call 'science' is massively interconnected, and the scientific method consists of maximising its conformity to observation, and maximising its internal consistency. Any claim that contradicts observation, or that contradicts any part of the existing structure of knowledge, requires investigation and testing - ideally against observation.

Over four centuries of applying this method has created a massive body of knowledge, and claims (such as a young Earth) that contradict large numbers of disparate parts of this body of knowledge require massive and compelling evidence to even be worthy of serious consideration. No such evidence exists for the age of the Earth to be less than several thousand million years, and a considerable number of independent approaches to determining upper and lower bounds for possible ages of the Earth produce compatible results.

The only way to overturn these results is to produce compelling evidence in the form of observation, and of theory that conforms with both new and historical observations, for a different result.

It's not an impossible task in principle; But YECs haven't even attempted it, instead relying on emotional appeals, arguments from ignorance, and attempts to sway opinion via rhetoric rather than logic, reason, and observation.

Until they make a serious effort to do actual science, rather than producing cargo-cult claims that vaguely resemble science to audiences unfamiliar with what the scientific method entails, claims of plausibility are a pathetic joke.

They're claiming victory, without even bothering to learn the rules of the game, much less to play it. It's utterly sad and lame, but there's plenty of people who assume (incorrectly) that they can tell truth from falsehood without learning how to do that - or worse, after learning techniques that cannot possibly be effective - to keep the stupidity alive.

The ultimate test though is utility. Science works, bitches. No amount of sophistry can obscure that inconvenient fact.

Arguing against little bits and pieces is meaningless. Sure, you might find an apparently compelling diatribe against, say, radiometric dating; But for radiometric dating to be flawed doesn't only imply that our established age for the Earth is wrong - it implies that the whole of Quantum theory is deeply wrong. And it's not - we checked. If it were wrong, wrong enough to discredit radiometric dating and open up the possibility that the Earth is young, then a whole swathe of superficially unrelated ideas would also have to be wrong. Which would imply that all the massive technological progress of the twentieth century, which we based on those theories, worked by pure dumb luck. Which is complete madness.

The technology that makes this conversation possible couldn't exist if our understanding of how everything behaves was sufficiently flawed as to render radiometric dating valueless.

A young Earth is, as I said earlier, only plausible to people who know very little (or nothing) about how reality actually works. Such ignorance was excusable a thousand years ago; And was understandable (though less excusable) a hundred and fifty years ago. But it really isn't today.

We know stuff. We don't expect anyone to believe it, because we can show them how to check for themselves. We can stand on the shoulders of giants, and see further and better than at any time in the history of humanity. And yet so many people are still grubbing in the dirt our ancestors left behind, pretending that their vision is as far ranging as anyone's. Because they know how to sound "clever" for an ignorant audience, and can win debates by acclaim, despite having zero solid basis for their beliefs.

It's not just pathetic; It's insulting.
 
.....No such evidence exists for the age of the Earth to be less than several thousand million years, and a considerable number of independent approaches to determining upper and lower bounds for possible ages of the Earth produce compatible results.

The only way to overturn these results is to produce compelling evidence in the form of observation, and of theory that conforms with both new and historical observations, for a different result.
If people trust the YEC sources they would think there are some good reasons to think that the earth might be relatively young:
https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth
https://answersingenesis.org/age-of-the-earth/how-old-earth/
https://www.icr.org/article/young-age-for-moon-earth
Until they make a serious effort to do actual science, rather than producing cargo-cult claims that vaguely resemble science to audiences unfamiliar with what the scientific method entails, claims of plausibility are a pathetic joke.
Well they have "journals":
https://creation.com/journal-of-creation-archive-index

Anyway I think many of their counter-arguments are clever like I've mentioned.... same with the whole Mount St Helens thing:
https://creation.com/lessons-from-mount-st-helens
Which involves vertical logs like this:
1280px-Lycopsid_joggins_mcr1.JPG


Their interpretation of the geological column:
geologic-timescale-converter.jpg


Though of course I guess there are aquatic mammals near the top, etc.
 
The YEC look at the Behemoth in Job is a strong argument.... it seems that only a dinosaur has a tail like a cedar....
(kids song about that)
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TitCoikDJ40[/YOUTUBE]
Though now I think "tail" is just a euphemism for penis....

More YEC info about dinosaurs:
https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/dinosaurs-and-the-bible/
 
.....No such evidence exists for the age of the Earth to be less than several thousand million years, and a considerable number of independent approaches to determining upper and lower bounds for possible ages of the Earth produce compatible results.

The only way to overturn these results is to produce compelling evidence in the form of observation, and of theory that conforms with both new and historical observations, for a different result.
If people trust the YEC sources...
Trust is the exact opposite of science. If you are doing trust, you are asking to be bilked.

A scientific paper consists largely of detailed instructions on how to check the work done by the authors, so that you don't need to trust them - you can repeat their experiments and observations and see for yourself whether their conclusions are valid.
Until they make a serious effort to do actual science, rather than producing cargo-cult claims that vaguely resemble science to audiences unfamiliar with what the scientific method entails, claims of plausibility are a pathetic joke.
Well they have "journals":
Yeah, cargo cult science. A radar built out of palm fronds might look like the real thing to a person who has no idea how radar is supposed to work, but it won't attract cargo planes no matter how similar it's appearance to the real thing.

Creationist "journals" only look like scientific journals to people who don't know what a scientific journal is meant to do, how they work, or what peer review and impact factor imply.

Journals are a tool used by and for science, but they are not, in themselves, science.
Anyway I think many of their counter-arguments are clever like I've mentioned

Clever isn't science either. Rigorous, comprehensive, and repeatable are science. Clever is for debating society trophies. Science is for finding out about reality.
 
Trust is the exact opposite of science. If you are doing trust, you are asking to be bilked.

A scientific paper consists largely of detailed instructions on how to check the work done by the authors, so that you don't need to trust them - you can repeat their experiments and observations and see for yourself whether their conclusions are valid.....
Ken Ham would say that this kind of repeatable science is different from "historical" science (where you can't truly repeat history)
https://answersingenesis.org/what-is-science/two-kinds-of-science/
....Clever isn't science either. Rigorous, comprehensive, and repeatable are science. Clever is for debating society trophies. Science is for finding out about reality.....
Clever is related to how persuasive arguments can be.... and how plausible they seem - though the person might not have a solid foundation in science.... but be aware of many of the key evolutionist arguments....
 
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