Why YEC can seem plausible

[funinspace]

Just remember to take a towel with you...

I don't think I'll bother. Every continent except Australia has a highest point above 5km...<lots of real science type stuff>

I guess I should have added a big grin...glad I didn't bring up the improbability drive.

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Towel

A towel is the most important item a Hitchhiker can carry. Ford Prefect and his fellow hitchhiker and friend Roosta both emphasise the importance of towels throughout Hitchhiker's and are both known to carry one with them at all times. Although towels are repeatedly mentioned in every version of Hitchhiker's, they are only seen visually in the television series and 2005 film.

Back to the regularly scheduled sparing on the 69 unmentioned biblical miracles needed to keep the Noah whale tale afloat...

The part I find easiest to bring up is the uninterrupted 10,000 years of tree ring research that has no Noachian floody, the 100,000 plus years of undestisturbed reef history that has no Noachian floody; and lastly the 600,000 years of ice rings without any Noachian floody. So just when did this tale happen in human history again? Even C.S. Lewis called it a fairy tale.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I guess I should have added a big grin...glad I didn't bring up the improbability drive.

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Towel

A towel is the most important item a Hitchhiker can carry. Ford Prefect and his fellow hitchhiker and friend Roosta both emphasise the importance of towels throughout Hitchhiker's and are both known to carry one with them at all times. Although towels are repeatedly mentioned in every version of Hitchhiker's, they are only seen visually in the television series and 2005 film.

Back to the regularly scheduled sparing on the 69 unmentioned biblical miracles needed to keep the Noah whale tale afloat...

The part I find easiest to bring up is the uninterrupted 10,000 years of tree ring research that has no Noachian floody, the 100,000 plus years of undestisturbed reef history that has no Noachian floody; and lastly the 600,000 years of ice rings without any Noachian floody. So just when did this tale happen in human history again? Even C.S. Lewis called it a fairy tale.

I've always wondered how the Chinese survived the flood? It's hard to understand how they didn't even notice despite the fact that they existed a group far earlier than flood. Dang they are clever!

 

[funinspace]

I guess I should have added a big grin...glad I didn't bring up the improbability drive.

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Towel

A towel is the most important item a Hitchhiker can carry. Ford Prefect and his fellow hitchhiker and friend Roosta both emphasise the importance of towels throughout Hitchhiker's and are both known to carry one with them at all times. Although towels are repeatedly mentioned in every version of Hitchhiker's, they are only seen visually in the television series and 2005 film.

Back to the regularly scheduled sparing on the 69 unmentioned biblical miracles needed to keep the Noah whale tale afloat...

The part I find easiest to bring up is the uninterrupted 10,000 years of tree ring research that has no Noachian floody, the 100,000 plus years of undestisturbed reef history that has no Noachian floody; and lastly the 600,000 years of ice rings without any Noachian floody. So just when did this tale happen in human history again? Even C.S. Lewis called it a fairy tale.

I've always wondered how the Chinese survived the flood? It's hard to understand how they didn't even notice despite the fact that they existed a group far earlier than flood. Dang they are clever!

Them and the Sumerians, who we have simple writings from 5000 years ago...never mind the Egyptians. But some Christians go thru some linguistic gymnastics to put the floody further back in time to try and make the fairy tale hold water...

 

[DrZoidberg]

I've always wondered how the Chinese survived the flood? It's hard to understand how they didn't even notice despite the fact that they existed a group far earlier than flood. Dang they are clever!

Them and the Sumerians, who we have simple writings from 5000 years ago...never mind the Egyptians. But some Christians go thru some linguistic gymnastics to put the floody further back in time to try and make the fairy tale hold water...

The Noah flood is originally Sumerian (Utnapishtim). Its a, reworking of it. The Chinese have the Gun-Yu flood story. It's a very different story. But it's fundamental to ancient Chinese religion.

Since all early civilisations were first established on flood plains I'm willing to bet its a narrative we can find in every early culture, if we look hard enough.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I've always wondered how the Chinese survived the flood? It's hard to understand how they didn't even notice despite the fact that they existed a group far earlier than flood. Dang they are clever!

Them and the Sumerians, who we have simple writings from 5000 years ago...never mind the Egyptians. But some Christians go thru some linguistic gymnastics to put the floody further back in time to try and make the fairy tale hold water...

The Noah flood is originally Sumerian (Utnapishtim). Its a, reworking of it. The Chinese have the Gun-Yu flood story. It's a very different story. But it's fundamental to ancient Chinese religion.

Since all early civilisations were first established on flood plains I'm willing to bet its a narrative we can find in every early culture, if we look hard enough.

The difference being that religious Christians/Jews demand that we accept the Noah story as fact, despite no evidence. I've never heard a Chinese person demanding that the Gun-Yu story is fact. American Indians also have many creation/flood types of stories, and yet they don't demand that these stories be taught in public schools.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The Noah flood is originally Sumerian (Utnapishtim). Its a, reworking of it. The Chinese have the Gun-Yu flood story. It's a very different story. But it's fundamental to ancient Chinese religion.

Since all early civilisations were first established on flood plains I'm willing to bet its a narrative we can find in every early culture, if we look hard enough.

The difference being that religious Christians/Jews demand that we accept the Noah story as fact, despite no evidence. I've never heard a Chinese person demanding that the Gun-Yu story is fact. American Indians also have many creation/flood types of stories, and yet they don't demand that these stories be taught in public schools.

I think that's a bit unfair. Fundamentalists have never been the majority of Christians. It's always been a loony fringe part of Christianity. Most Christians, especially the ancient, have always understood how religious myths work.

I've always disliked atheists attacking Christianity because of things it's dumbest members believe. YEC and fundamentalism is just this IMHO.

 

[James Brown]

The largest Tsunami recorded was about 30m high...

Erm...the bible records mountain tops being swamped.

And how was that measured? Who was present to make the readings? Per the story, every human being was drowned or had more important things to do than race up to the top of Everest with a measuring tape. Noah and his family were buttoned up inside a hollow block of wood, which somehow survived these eight-kilometer-high waves.

 

[Elixir]

The largest Tsunami recorded was about 30m high...

Erm...the bible records mountain tops being swamped.

And how was that measured? Who was present to make the readings? Per the story, every human being was drowned or had more important things to do than race up to the top of Everest with a measuring tape. Noah and his family were buttoned up inside a hollow block of wood, which somehow survived these eight-kilometer-high waves.

“Swamped”?
Lol! It shows evidence of being sea bottom for millions of years.
Extreme swampedness indeed.

 

[funinspace]

I've always wondered how the Chinese survived the flood? It's hard to understand how they didn't even notice despite the fact that they existed a group far earlier than flood. Dang they are clever!

Them and the Sumerians, who we have simple writings from 5000 years ago...never mind the Egyptians. But some Christians go thru some linguistic gymnastics to put the floody further back in time to try and make the fairy tale hold water...

The Noah flood is originally Sumerian (Utnapishtim). Its a, reworking of it.

Yep. One of the things I found particularly interesting is what happens to be probably the oldest known literary pun...written a millennia before the Hebrews were telling their tales.
https://www.worldhistory.org/Ninhursag/

Orientalist Samuel Noah Kramer writes:

Perhaps the most interesting result of our comparative analysis of the Sumerian poem is the explanation which it provides for one of the most puzzling motifs in the biblical paradise story, the famous passage describing the fashioning of Eve, "the mother of all living", from the rib of Adam - for why a rib? Why did the Hebrew storyteller find it more fitting to choose a rib rather than any other organ of the body for the fashioning of the woman whose name, Eve, according to the biblical notion, means approximately "she who makes live". The reason becomes quite clear if we assume a Sumerian literary background, such as that represented by our Dilmun poem, to underly the biblical paradise tale; for in our Sumerian poem, one of Enki's sick organs is the rib. Now the Sumerian word for "rib" is ti (pronounced tee); the goddess created for the healing of Enki's rib was therefore called in Sumerian Nin-ti "the Lady of the rib". But the Sumerian word ti also means "to make live" as well as "the Lady of the rib". In Sumerian literature, therefore, "the Lady of the rib" came to be identified with "the Lady who makes live" through what may be termed a play on words. It was this, one of the most ancient of literary puns, which was carried over and perpetuated in the biblical paradise story, although there, of course, the pun loses its validity, since the Hebrew words for "rib" and "who makes live" have nothing in common. (149)

 

[Harry Bosch]

The Noah flood is originally Sumerian (Utnapishtim). Its a, reworking of it. The Chinese have the Gun-Yu flood story. It's a very different story. But it's fundamental to ancient Chinese religion.

Since all early civilisations were first established on flood plains I'm willing to bet its a narrative we can find in every early culture, if we look hard enough.

The difference being that religious Christians/Jews demand that we accept the Noah story as fact, despite no evidence. I've never heard a Chinese person demanding that the Gun-Yu story is fact. American Indians also have many creation/flood types of stories, and yet they don't demand that these stories be taught in public schools.

I think that's a bit unfair. Fundamentalists have never been the majority of Christians. It's always been a loony fringe part of Christianity. Most Christians, especially the ancient, have always understood how religious myths work.

I've always disliked atheists attacking Christianity because of things it's dumbest members believe. YEC and fundamentalism is just this IMHO.

In the US, a majority of Christians believe that the bible is literally true. According to the below, 60% of Americans believe that the Noah story is actual events, jot for jot:

https://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/947a1ViewsoftheBible.pdf

 

[Harry Bosch]

And how was that measured? Who was present to make the readings? Per the story, every human being was drowned or had more important things to do than race up to the top of Everest with a measuring tape. Noah and his family were buttoned up inside a hollow block of wood, which somehow survived these eight-kilometer-high waves.

“Swamped”?
Lol! It shows evidence of being sea bottom for millions of years.
Extreme swampedness indeed.

BOLLOCKS! Please sir show your evidence of plate tectonics that could push up the sea bottom. (Actually, disregard, there is so much evidence that it would clog the cloud and the forum!)

 

[Learner]

Thanks for the passionate effort you've put in. I'll copy it for now and read it off-line.

G'night

Focus on this part.

There's not enough water on or in the planet to cover the highest parts of the continental crust.

2/3rds of the globe covered in water.
The average depth of the ocean below sea level is 2.3 miles.

And yet we have scientifically illiterate flood deniers saying there's not enough water to muster up a wave big enough to swamp a few mountain tops. https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts...s 1.7 miles down!,ocean is about 12,100 feet .

Quite a bit of dialogue has taken place since I logged in. But we notice the same area . It's interesting that the idea of "not enough water" kinda suggests that the water levels were "always" at "this level" therefore one can make the conclusion somehow (I say for "arguments" sake), if one is looking at the current oceans on earth, i.e. suggesting "the water's entire volume hasn't changed, from Noahs time to today, hence the conclusion: "that is all there is and ever was etc.."

Besides those undersea buildings and landmarks,you'll find globally, in the 72% water today, would contradict that notion too, indicating there was less of it, in the distant past.

Japans Yonaguni

 

[Harry Bosch]

Focus on this part.



2/3rds of the globe covered in water.
The average depth of the ocean below sea level is 2.3 miles.

And yet we have scientifically illiterate flood deniers saying there's not enough water to muster up a wave big enough to swamp a few mountain tops. https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts...s 1.7 miles down!,ocean is about 12,100 feet .

Quite a bit of dialogue has taken place since I logged in. But we notice the same area . It's interesting that the idea of "not enough water" kinda suggests that the water levels were "always" at "this level" therefore one can make the conclusion somehow (I say for "arguments" sake), by looking at the current oceans on earth, i.e. the water's entire volume hasn't changed, from Noahs time to today? Besides those undersea buildings and landmarks around the world would contradict that too.

View attachment 34201 View attachment 34202

Learner: I'm curious to hear what you thought of that Smithsonian article that I linked? Did you read it? Secondly, putting aside the issue of whether or not there was sufficient water to cover all the mountains 4,000 years ago, is it your opinion that the possibility of that amount of water existing is positive evidence for Noah's flood?

 

[Learner]

Forgve me, I had to sleep straight after and got distracted with work and people follwing day, it escaped my mind to follow up with Bilbys post and your link. Just bear with me a moment.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Forgve me, I had to sleep straight after and got distracted with work and people follwing day, it escaped my mind to follow up with Bilbys post and your link. Just bear with me a moment.

Where the hell are your priorities!! (just kidding)

 

[funinspace]

Japans Yonaguni

Well, some have claimed its man made...featured on the History Channel’s Ancient Aliens...that settles it LOL
http://www.historynaked.com/yonaguni-monument-japans-atlantis-myth/

In recent years, Yonaguni has been the focus of alternative historians and has even been featured on the History Channel’s Ancient Aliens. (Side note: If you have not seen this show, go now as the main guy’s hair is worth the price of admission. It’s the best unintentional comedy out there.)

Without further study and additional evidence, we cannot definitively say what these structures are. However, at this time neither the Japanese government’s Agency for Cultural Affairs nor the government of Okinawa Prefecture recognize the remains off Yonaguni as an important cultural property, said agency spokesperson Emiko Ishida.

 

[Learner]

I see what you mean 'settled', as the only other alternatives to consider is that aliens made it, or the oceans naturally shaped those rocks into block-shapes "imitating" human design



Funny enough,(just a mention without going off topic), speaking of aliens, there are more Ufo stories seeping into some of the regular daily news channels. Whats happening?

 

[Learner]

Learner: I'm curious to hear what you thought of that Smithsonian article that I linked? Did you read it?

They have their explanations, which are good, in which I won't say I would totally disagree with. What I mean here is: it's not the fact that I'm claiming to know or prove 'this or that' particular section is wrong but rather, I'm not entirely sure how precise those measurements of study made, are that accurate. Like here for example: The publication is dated 21 years ago and there have been some controversies or debates like for example the 'cambrian explosion issue' and the carbon-dating thats mentioned in the article - which may not been quite so reliable because errors can occur, apparently - at least it has been for certain studies (I vaguely recall an issue about dinosaurs or something). With things like this, what it does is, sort of puts a 'spanner in the works' into view, which kept me from not accepting things like the geology records at least in its entirety, so easily. I do recognise the articles scientific discipline, valid & relevant in its foundation, still existing on the smithsonians site, since from April 1st 2000.

On the fun side, I've heard religious researchers joke, "we'd better get to the archeological artifacts before the smithsonians get there" lol.

Secondly, putting aside the issue of whether or not there was sufficient water to cover all the mountains 4,000 years ago, is it your opinion that the possibility of that amount of water existing is positive evidence for Noah's flood?

If it fits the description where it mentions " the water rising above mountains," than that would indicate the bible was right about that event.

 

[bilby]

The largest Tsunami recorded was about 30m high...

Erm...the bible records mountain tops being swamped.

You've also overlooked the fact that not only is average ocean depth far deeper than the average height of land above sea level, but that average depth covers a vastly greater surface area of the globe than the corresponding square kilometres of land area above sea level.

Simply put, if 70% of the Earth's surface is covered by (a volume of) water at a depth far greater than the corresponding height of the remaining 30% - land above sea level - then you have a twofold factor.

Depth (3700 metres) which is deeper than height/elevation ( 800 metres). 3700:800 ratio. And surface area which is a 70:30 ratio.

Is there enough water in Sydney Harbour to fill an Olympic swimming pool?
You do the math.

Er.. You do realise that to raise global sea levels, you need to cover the water as well as the land, right? Water finds its own level. If you put it on the land, it runs off into the ocean.

The larger the ratio of ocean to land, the MORE water you need in order to raise sea level by a given amount.

Perhaps you should have done the math.

 

[Lion IRC]

I see words are difficult for you.
Here. Lemme draw you a picture.

Water defying bilby's mathematics.