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Will democratic political calling out unions help or hurt union or democratic party (you choose)

fromderinside

Mazzie Daius
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Governor Cuomo to challenge school unions on evaluations and charter schools http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/n...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Personally I think its about time that one institution tell another institution that they are on the wrong track and that the outcome of the dispute will improve both the party and union.

Confrontational unions sticking to a purely public education model and sticking with a demonstratively bad seniority policy is keeping educational innovation and public perception of unions negative. What is best for workers is an educational system that is flexible and innovative in bringing in the best available teachers.

A democratic party tied to out of date labor policies and attitudes is contrary to their liberal and progressive instincts. What is best for the democratic party is to demonstrate a unified thoughtful progressive policy where government works rather than imposes.

As you can see I view Governor Cuomo's proposals as a win win all around. You may have other takes. So I provide several options for the progress of this discussion.
 
Window dressing and politics.

Punishing and scapegoating teachers just makes good people not want to go into the profession.

We could learn a lot from Finland.

No child left behind and teaching to tests has done more harm to education than any union.
 
Window dressing and politics.

Punishing and scapegoating teachers just makes good people not want to go into the profession.

We could learn a lot from Finland.

No child left behind and teaching to tests has done more harm to education than any union.

For once we agree on something.

No Child Left Behind is actually a Republican plot to destroy public education.
 
Window dressing and politics.

Punishing and scapegoating teachers just makes good people not want to go into the profession.

We could learn a lot from Finland.

No child left behind and teaching to tests has done more harm to education than any union.

For once we agree on something.

No Child Left Behind is actually a Republican plot to destroy public education.

My bride is a retired educator. She's seen shit that is really harmful to kids legislated to keep things under local control so saying no kid left behind has really got to be something if it worse than unions or overzealous communities.

Personally I think you just let another BS bomb. I see common core as part of NDLB and common core brings a baseline to education. Whether teaching to test as teachers want to do because its a lot less work for them is a bad thing isn't clear when it is compared to the status quo which seems to be most every district being jerked this way or that by whatever group of citizens get the power to set policy on boards.

What I find as the main problem with unions is that they gained control when teachers were being abysmally paid, Ever since priority one has become salary and benefits. That's true even with the NEA which at one time was a professional association , but, it has morphed into NFTA-lite which is an aggressive pay me take care of me biased union.

Unions needn't be bad is they are structured to objectives similar to the business with which they are competing. In education everybody should be on board for the children, but, school boards never have been that way. That system fosters what the community thinks is best for their children which has become very much like what churches want for the children in the community.

Republicans are only a problem with education to the extent that they are controlled by the religious right. Democrats are a problem to education only to the extend they agree with the principle that the government way is right for everything.

I'm not in favor of letting kids grade teachers, I am in favor of letting what interests kids influence the way teachers teach. Right now technology and social interaction structures are what turn on kids. My bet, teachers try to guide kids away from these new processes and practices.

As for NCLB, testing, and CC punishing teachers, they are tools that teachers should do every thing they can to embrace as gateways to getting children to respect what they can learn.
 
For once we agree on something.

No Child Left Behind is actually a Republican plot to destroy public education.

My bride is a retired educator. She's seen shit that is really harmful to kids legislated to keep things under local control so saying no kid left behind has really got to be something if it worse than unions or overzealous communities.

Personally I think you just let another BS bomb. I see common core as part of NDLB and common core brings a baseline to education. Whether teaching to test as teachers want to do because its a lot less work for them is a bad thing isn't clear when it is compared to the status quo which seems to be most every district being jerked this way or that by whatever group of citizens get the power to set policy on boards.

What I find as the main problem with unions is that they gained control when teachers were being abysmally paid, Ever since priority one has become salary and benefits. That's true even with the NEA which at one time was a professional association , but, it has morphed into NFTA-lite which is an aggressive pay me take care of me biased union.

Unions needn't be bad is they are structured to objectives similar to the business with which they are competing. In education everybody should be on board for the children, but, school boards never have been that way. That system fosters what the community thinks is best for their children which has become very much like what churches want for the children in the community.

Republicans are only a problem with education to the extent that they are controlled by the religious right. Democrats are a problem to education only to the extend they agree with the principle that the government way is right for everything.

I'm not in favor of letting kids grade teachers, I am in favor of letting what interests kids influence the way teachers teach. Right now technology and social interaction structures are what turn on kids. My bet, teachers try to guide kids away from these new processes and practices.

As for NCLB, testing, and CC punishing teachers, they are tools that teachers should do every thing they can to embrace as gateways to getting children to respect what they can learn.

Teacher quality in high-performing countries is a result of careful quality control at entry into teaching rather than measuring teacher effectiveness in service.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/05/15/what-if-finlands-great-teachers-taught-in-u-s-schools-not-what-you-think/
 
Personally I think you just let another BS bomb. I see common core as part of NDLB and common core brings a baseline to education. Whether teaching to test as teachers want to do because its a lot less work for them is a bad thing isn't clear when it is compared to the status quo which seems to be most every district being jerked this way or that by whatever group of citizens get the power to set policy on boards.

Don't know where you're getting your information, but no teacher I know likes teaching to the test. Both of my parents are teachers, my brother is a teacher, my wife is a teacher, all four of her siblings are teachers, and all of my college friends went into teaching...so yeah, I'm around a lot of teachers. Teaching to the tests isn't less work, it is more...and it kills the creativity of students and teachers alike.

As for the citizens dictating what students should learn, I agree. There needs to be a common core standard otherwise the religious right would be teaching Creationism as Science. How the teachers teach common core should be up to the teacher...as long as the information is taught.

What I find as the main problem with unions is that they gained control when teachers were being abysmally paid, Ever since priority one has become salary and benefits. That's true even with the NEA which at one time was a professional association , but, it has morphed into NFTA-lite which is an aggressive pay me take care of me biased union.
Pay largely depends on the district and state the teachers live in. Even in New England, my wife gets paid extremely poorly compared to other districts...and even her pay is better than what teachers from the South get paid.

I'm not in favor of letting kids grade teachers, I am in favor of letting what interests kids influence the way teachers teach. Right now technology and social interaction structures are what turn on kids. My bet, teachers try to guide kids away from these new processes and practices.
Again wrong. Teachers I know love to use technology in the classroom, but they are limited by the district budgets. Some districts get to use interactive touch-screen smart boards connected to the internet where they can use Skype and youtube and all sorts of other educational programs. My wife's district on the other hand just got rid of their projectors and transparency papers last year.

As for NCLB, testing, and CC punishing teachers, they are tools that teachers should do every thing they can to embrace as gateways to getting children to respect what they can learn.
What you just said here goes against what you said earlier. NCLB, teaching to the test, etc. are major issues. My wife can't fail a student. Period. No matter how much she tries to help students, even if she writes out the answers to a quiz, gives it to the student, and gives the student plenty of time to finish the quiz with notes, para help, etc...if the student is too lazy to take the quiz, then guess what...he still passes. That is NCLB at its core.
 
OK its what teachers do then.

1. Don't know where you're getting your information, but no teacher I know likes teaching to the test. Both of my parents are teachers, my brother is a teacher, my wife is a teacher, all four of her siblings are teachers, and all of my college friends went into teaching...so yeah, I'm around a lot of teachers. Teaching to the tests isn't less work, it is more...and it kills the creativity of students and teachers alike.

2. As for the citizens dictating what students should learn, I agree. There needs to be a common core standard otherwise the religious right would be teaching Creationism as Science. How the teachers teach common core should be up to the teacher...as long as the information is taught.

3. Pay largely depends on the district and state the teachers live in. Even in New England, my wife gets paid extremely poorly compared to other districts...and even her pay is better than what teachers from the South get paid.

4. Teachers I know love to use technology in the classroom, but they are limited by the district budgets. Some districts get to use interactive touch-screen smart boards connected to the internet where they can use Skype and youtube and all sorts of other educational programs. My wife's district on the other hand just got rid of their projectors and transparency papers last year.

5. What you just said here goes against what you said earlier. NCLB, teaching to the test, etc. are major issues. My wife can't fail a student. Period. No matter how much she tries to help students, even if she writes out the answers to a quiz, gives it to the student, and gives the student plenty of time to finish the quiz with notes, para help, etc...if the student is too lazy to take the quiz, then guess what...he still passes. That is NCLB at its core.

1. I'm getting my information from the same kind of sources you are getting your information. My teacher parents, my teacher/resource/principal/school board president wife, my teacher kinds, my wife's friends, etc. All I can suggest is that there are big differences between education systems and student populations in Mass. and Cal. My experience with unions go way beyond education though so I probably presume that union teachers are much union aerospace engineers which is what I found in California. Since I was involved in developing testing regimes my sense is that these processes are pretty much wrapped up in expected skill levels by grade.

The only teachers I know in California have the standards for accomplishment posted in the room and on computer in the classroom with links to past standards tests and skill item for use by students. That integrated structure is not teaching to the test. It is hard as hell to construct and maintain given the proclivities of school administrations and school boards. It is when teachers mostly ignore standards in the classroom and use test guidelines in their place that I call teaching to the test. Too often I find such is the practice in both engineering and teaching. there seems to be a gravitational draw to concentrate on personnel evaluation items that draws most workers to use them in place of best practices (achievement standards in education, engineering practices in aerospace).

I'm getting pretty tired of the appeal to teacher creativity as an excuse to let teachers do what the damn well please. They are supposed to be professionals, not artists, who have strong training in best teaching and motivational practices for children. We don't conduct classes with gurus in public schools. Rather we hope teachers can handle up to 40 students (6-12), control them, and direct them to use tools and resources, including applied training, to gain understanding and mastery of standards based material so they can, when pumped out of this system operate as informed and competent citizens.

We all have our favorite teacher, the one who got our attention, captured our imagination, and inspired us to excel and find our strong suits for life. This is not what teachers are driven to do. Rather inspiring the individual is what some gifted or common life story teacher we all encounter we describe as reasons for our success. Teachers are happy when they see their students take what has been tasked for the teacher to present and captured it. Many are like kindly nuns in nature.

2. Common core standards in California are drawn against standards for achievement by grade set by the state in most areas of learning. I suspect its similar in Massachusetts. Doing it by school district is rally missing the point of common core. I agree that teachers should have leeway in teaching core, but, it is essential that the teacher have strong links in their programs to state standards which, in the case of California, are research justified by the state.

3. Of course. However pay within districts still primarily guided by who has been there longest which is one of those areas where unions have dug in their heels. If your teaching professional connects standards with tests and reinforces that with hands on applications where students can really discover and master those connections and standards one would hope that that teacher was rewarded. This should be especially true if: that teacher is one who developed software for progress training in a game form suitable for Hispanic English as a second language eighth graders; provided students with individual in-classroom computers out of his own pocket and couple them into a community system in the classroom; got students to master principles of mechanics by having them build and test wooden cars and gain skill in tool use; tied all this to English language standards for eighth graders; and was rewarded by them achieving testing results at par with Beverly Hills. Hell, he's better than that Stand and Deliver guy.

Now if that's what you mean by creative as a normal thing I apologize. Otherwise you have to see my point about rewarding those who outperform all others by some means other than units and years served.

4. Refer back to three. My son pays for the computers inter-connectivity, video, and extra access to internet resources beyond those provided by LAUSD. He feels it is the right of students to have access to what technology is there. Sure some of his computers are a bit out of date, dating back to 2007, sure he's dedicated gamer and programmer, sure he's had four years Spanish training, sure he's an expert in English for Hispanics and yes he only got part of that from university. he's pretty much at war with administration mainly because they can't suck it up and bring the district into the 20th, much less the 21st century. The union is not really his friend, enemy actually, so he just perseveres.

5. Lumping NCLB, testing, core, with seventies don't make him feel bad policy is just keeping the same old dogs to fight new wars. My boy was written up once in about 1997 for failing precious little students. he made his case, got his results and the local administration backed off. Well, not exactly. The gave him low achieving students for two classes for the next three years. The parents all knew his reputation, his standards, and they kept the fire to their kids feet. Result no fails, his kids out performed the advanced class at Barendo MS, and scored well above district average in science and English. Kids can be interested even in gang infested neighborhoods is the takeaway here. I've no sympathy for a teacher who can't get a kid to pay attention obviously.

If one disconnects coddling and satisfying administration political agendas from teaching one will have a much better school system. I've even suggested to my boy that he go visit his kids at home with their parents to establish a better repore. Its a bad gang area, but, he's considering that or finding a way to pick up parents and bring them in to meet twice a year.

Thanks for the post.
 
For once we agree on something.

No Child Left Behind is actually a Republican plot to destroy public education.

My bride is a retired educator. She's seen shit that is really harmful to kids legislated to keep things under local control so saying no kid left behind has really got to be something if it worse than unions or overzealous communities.

I'm not saying there aren't big problems. It's that No-Child-Left-Behind is a critically flawed "fix".

Personally I think you just let another BS bomb. I see common core as part of NDLB and common core brings a baseline to education. Whether teaching to test as teachers want to do because its a lot less work for them is a bad thing isn't clear when it is compared to the status quo which seems to be most every district being jerked this way or that by whatever group of citizens get the power to set policy on boards.

From what I've seen I support common core.

NCLB, however, makes the fundamental assumption that the problem is only the schools and it commits the flaw of thinking that everyone can be at least average--never mind that in the real world 50% of people will be below average.

I'm all for getting rid of bad teachers. However, a teacher isn't bad because they got a bunch of bad students.

One big thing to do: The scores on standardized testing mean basically nothing in evaluating a teacher. Rather, compare how the students did compared to last time. A student that goes from 4 grades behind to 2 grades behind is actually better than one who goes from at level to at level, yet NCLB says the first one is an inferior teacher.


As for students grading teachers--this should be done but with a lot of caution. After all, there will be a trend to give high marks to those who have easier classes.

1) I don't think there should be grades as such. Rather, students should indicate the good points and the bad points. Look for patterns.

2) For the most part they should be looking at the evaluations by the students with the good grades overall. (Not necessarily in that class!)
 
Window dressing and politics.

Punishing and scapegoating teachers just makes good people not want to go into the profession.

We could learn a lot from Finland.

No child left behind and teaching to tests has done more harm to education than any union.

I notice you only mention No Child Left Alone^5^5^5 Behind, and don't also mention Common Core.
 
Window dressing and politics.

Punishing and scapegoating teachers just makes good people not want to go into the profession.

We could learn a lot from Finland.

No child left behind and teaching to tests has done more harm to education than any union.

I notice you only mention No Child Left Alone^5^5^5 Behind, and don't also mention Common Core.

What is your point?

I posted an article on the Finnish system.

As it said, the quality of teachers there is derived from a selection process of who gets into teaching school not a process of grading teachers after they graduate.

In the US, higher education is simply a money making business. Lower standards of acceptance results in poorer teachers.

We need to tighten the standards of getting into teaching school and attract better people by paying teachers more.

Not teach to tests or try to crush unions, which are not the problem at all.
 
Teacher quality in high-performing countries is a result of careful quality control at entry into teaching rather than measuring teacher effectiveness in service.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ers-taught-in-u-s-schools-not-what-you-think/

Thanks for that. Something I believe prevails in those programs where certification really marks the holder qualified to deal with her discipline. the certification generally is marked by meeting near universal standards throughout the profession.
 
What is your point?

That criticisms of a system have more to do with who proposed the system than what the system does.

I'll bet you like Obama-care and hate Romney-care.

No, I'm not as hypocritical and deluded as most on the right who had no problems with Romneycare but claimed Obamacare was the end of civilization.

I'm not a big supporter of Obama.

He is a centrist. I'm on the left. He is only slightly less dangerous than Republicans.
 

Thanks for that. Something I believe prevails in those programs where certification really marks the holder qualified to deal with her discipline. the certification generally is marked by meeting near universal standards throughout the profession.

Some more good quotes from that article.

Research on what explains students’ measured performance in school remains mixed. A commonly used conclusion is that 10% to 20% of the variance in measured student achievement belongs to the classroom, i.e., teachers and teaching, and a similar amount is attributable to schools, i.e., school climate, facilities and leadership. In other words, up to two-thirds of what explains student achievement is beyond the control of schools, i.e., family background and motivation to learn.

...In the United States today, 23 percent of children live in poor homes. In Finland, the same way to calculate child poverty would show that figure to be almost five times smaller. The United States ranked in the bottom four in the recent United Nations review on child well-being. Among 29 wealthy countries, the United States landed second from the last in child poverty and held a similarly poor position in “child life satisfaction.” Teachers alone, regardless of how effective they are, will not be able to overcome the challenges that poor children bring with them to schools everyday.
 
I'm not saying there aren't big problems. It's that No-Child-Left-Behind is a critically flawed "fix".

NCLB, however, makes the fundamental assumption that the problem is only the schools and it commits the flaw of thinking that everyone can be at least average--never mind that in the real world 50% of people will be below average.

I'm all for getting rid of bad teachers. However, a teacher isn't bad because they got a bunch of bad students.

One big thing to do: The scores on standardized testing mean basically nothing in evaluating a teacher. Rather, compare how the students did compared to last time. A student that goes from 4 grades behind to 2 grades behind is actually better than one who goes from at level to at level, yet NCLB says the first one is an inferior teacher.


As for students grading teachers--this should be done but with a lot of caution. After all, there will be a trend to give high marks to those who have easier classes.

1) I don't think there should be grades as such. Rather, students should indicate the good points and the bad points. Look for patterns.

2) For the most part they should be looking at the evaluations by the students with the good grades overall. (Not necessarily in that class!)

I'm thinking some here are confusing NCLB with school performance evaluations. It seems to me that some districts make this mistake as well. For a diverse district to set fire to schools in poverty areas as bad schools and blame teaching is for the bad student performance about as rotten a hoax by those who want to keep power as I've ever witnessed. BTW the goal of NCLB is not to get everyone to some arbitrary level of academic performance, but instead, it is to get all children to the point where they can be successful participants in adult society. Its goal is to instill confidence that a given child can succeed in what she sets out to do with what she had learned. Obviously she need competence in many things and she needs to get the support and tools she needs to have to become competent.

It really doesn't matter much what income levels are when one finds motivated parents throughout a district. The students will perform. It does matter whether the district supports maintaining high interest in parent support. To this end food programs and teacher neighborhood interaction programs are really good even if there need be cops around to protect teachers.

Motivating children is always a problem even when parents are willing to really pitch in. That's where the most important aspect of good teacher comes into play. I'll only talk about two aspects of this necessary good teacher trait. First the teacher needs take advantage of current student interests and attractions integrating them into her teaching method. For instance texting could be incorporated into the teaching process as could social networking. Obviously this is not what typically happens in schools since discipline is the most sought after thing fear oriented districts demand. So unless districts unleash teachers to use really modern methods to attract and cause movement toward knowing more in the kids these tactics will not be used except when a teacher is willing to challenge common understanding of what works. This is the first important attribute for a teacher , an independent child and culture oriented mind set.

The second attribute is the famous performance attribute. If one must lecture it had better be be entertaining and participatory. Bot teacher and student are required to perform. The teacher is responsible for both performances. She must hook the class, everyone and sustain them for whatever time she lectures, probably less than tin minutes in a segment. Second she mush get her students to develop something from the material she presents that the child , her family, and friends can use, enjoy, or brag on. These somethings need to integrate into a learning whole over the term in which a group of concepts are being learned.
 
OK we're going to talk about teachers rather than the political machines teachers find themselves being shuttled between.

So I'll just state for the record that all levels of government find gain in punishing teachers and schools in general. For them its more about what's wrong with you and its not my fault, protecting taxpayers interests, rather than are the kids getting what they need in education.

As for the NEA and AFT they too are in it for their gain rather than for either the teacher's or student's conditions with the main emphasis being on how much the adults get paid. Pushing on them will lead to more focus on satisfaction of their clients in their profession rather than just the salary of their clients. After all the goal of unionism is to assure that the worker has respect and respects herself within the community.

If democrats push on the unions they'll be forced to get back to being progressives finding ways to better educate children which will lead to more interactive school/parent relationships and increasing community confidence in what it can do.
 
OK we're going to talk about teachers rather than the political machines teachers find themselves being shuttled between.

So I'll just state for the record that all levels of government find gain in punishing teachers and schools in general. For them its more about what's wrong with you and its not my fault, protecting taxpayers interests, rather than are the kids getting what they need in education.

As for the NEA and AFT they too are in it for their gain rather than for either the teacher's or student's conditions with the main emphasis being on how much the adults get paid. Pushing on them will lead to more focus on satisfaction of their clients in their profession rather than just the salary of their clients. After all the goal of unionism is to assure that the worker has respect and respects herself within the community.

If democrats push on the unions they'll be forced to get back to being progressives finding ways to better educate children which will lead to more interactive school/parent relationships and increasing community confidence in what it can do.

Reduce poverty.

That will help more than any plan to scapegoat teachers.

But there is one party in Congress that has absolutely no desire to reduce poverty. All they want to do is help the rich get richer.

And the other party doesn't have much of a desire to do it either.
 
My experience with unions go way beyond education though so I probably presume that union teachers are much union aerospace engineers which is what I found in California. Since I was involved in developing testing regimes my sense is that these processes are pretty much wrapped up in expected skill levels by grade.
I am actually a test engineer too (cool;p)...though neither our engineers nor techs are unionized, so I don't have much experience with actual unions (just stories I've heard).
It is when teachers mostly ignore standards in the classroom and use test guidelines in their place that I call teaching to the test. Too often I find such is the practice in both engineering and teaching. there seems to be a gravitational draw to concentrate on personnel evaluation items that draws most workers to use them in place of best practices (achievement standards in education, engineering practices in aerospace).
Sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying here? Do you mean that people tend to follow standards without really thinking about the intention behind the standards?

2. Common core standards in California are drawn against standards for achievement by grade set by the state in most areas of learning. I suspect its similar in Massachusetts. Doing it by school district is rally missing the point of common core. I agree that teachers should have leeway in teaching core, but, it is essential that the teacher have strong links in their programs to state standards which, in the case of California, are research justified by the state.
Common core standards are nation-wide; not by the state or district though, so not sure what you mean?

3. Of course. However pay within districts still primarily guided by who has been there longest which is one of those areas where unions have dug in their heels. If your teaching professional connects standards with tests and reinforces that with hands on applications where students can really discover and master those connections and standards one would hope that that teacher was rewarded. This should be especially true if: that teacher is one who developed software for progress training in a game form suitable for Hispanic English as a second language eighth graders; provided students with individual in-classroom computers out of his own pocket and couple them into a community system in the classroom; got students to master principles of mechanics by having them build and test wooden cars and gain skill in tool use; tied all this to English language standards for eighth graders; and was rewarded by them achieving testing results at par with Beverly Hills. Hell, he's better than that Stand and Deliver guy.

Now if that's what you mean by creative as a normal thing I apologize. Otherwise you have to see my point about rewarding those who outperform all others by some means other than units and years served.
Yes, this is what I mean by stifling creativity when I talk about creativity. Most teachers aren't allowed to do the good things you talked about above for many many reasons. I agree that pay shouldn't be dictated based on time alone (although time definitely gives experience which is beneficial in any job). Still, the way CT just started teacher evaluations without tenure was to have fellow teachers with O92 degrees (administrator degree) rate the teachers. In other words, co-workers are rating you. Not a good model by any means imho.

The union is not really his friend, enemy actually, so he just perseveres.
I agree. I've not been a huge fan of my wife's union rep based on a number of reasons.

5. Lumping NCLB, testing, core, with seventies don't make him feel bad policy is just keeping the same old dogs to fight new wars. My boy was written up once in about 1997 for failing precious little students. he made his case, got his results and the local administration backed off. Well, not exactly. The gave him low achieving students for two classes for the next three years. The parents all knew his reputation, his standards, and they kept the fire to their kids feet. Result no fails, his kids out performed the advanced class at Barendo MS, and scored well above district average in science and English. Kids can be interested even in gang infested neighborhoods is the takeaway here. I've no sympathy for a teacher who can't get a kid to pay attention obviously.
Sounds like your son was lucky and had parent support. That is a rarity in my experience, not the norm. If there is no help from home, or worse, the parents encourage poor behaviors by saying 'not my kid'...then is it still the teacher's fault?

If one disconnects coddling and satisfying administration political agendas from teaching one will have a much better school system. I've even suggested to my boy that he go visit his kids at home with their parents to establish a better repore. Its a bad gang area, but, he's considering that or finding a way to pick up parents and bring them in to meet twice a year.

Thanks for the post.
My dad did something like this years ago. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't allow it these days, but basically he drew up a legal contract with the students that were in danger of dropping out. The parents signed it and agreed to the terms and conditions. One of which was that a student who was misbehaving would stay until they finished a pre-planned discipline. If the student didn't do it, they would be kept at school until the discipline was finished. The parent would have to bring my dad and the student dinner and wait there with their child until the child finished the discipline.

I remember him being home late a hand-ful of times. Then the parents were pissed, whipped the kids into shape, and not a single one of those kids in that program failed when they realized that my dad was willing to work with them if they were willing to work with themselves.

My point though is that the parents need to be involved or else the teacher can only help so much.

Another scenario. A student work from 4-10PM every day throughout high-school because their parents are alcoholics. The student basically puts food on the table and pays the rent as a teenager. Can we really expect this student to function at the same level as his peers, even with a great teacher to motivate him? The answer should be obviously not. Yet in NCLB, it is the teacher's fault.

P.S. That was basically my cousin growing up.


One last thing, the standards are used to create the budgets for the school districts. I don't entirely know how it works, but poorer performing schools don't get as much money I believe (which seems counter-intuitive so I may be wrong here).
 
For instance texting could be incorporated into the teaching process as could social networking. Obviously this is not what typically happens in schools since discipline is the most sought after thing fear oriented districts demand.
The problem here is lawyers. Parents threaten with a law suit and the district gives in almost automatically.

Also, social media can be a very dangerous thing in schools. Students have killed themselves over social-media bullying. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be incorporated, just that there is a reason for the fear that you mention.

The second attribute is the famous performance attribute. If one must lecture it had better be be entertaining and participatory. Bot teacher and student are required to perform. The teacher is responsible for both performances. She must hook the class, everyone and sustain them for whatever time she lectures, probably less than tin minutes in a segment. Second she mush get her students to develop something from the material she presents that the child , her family, and friends can use, enjoy, or brag on. These somethings need to integrate into a learning whole over the term in which a group of concepts are being learned.
My wife has block classes of 90 minutes. While she breaks the class time up, she lectures for much longer than 10 minutes at a time...although her lectures are always conversational and interactive in nature.
 
I'm thinking some here are confusing NCLB with school performance evaluations. It seems to me that some districts make this mistake as well. For a diverse district to set fire to schools in poverty areas as bad schools and blame teaching is for the bad student performance about as rotten a hoax by those who want to keep power as I've ever witnessed. BTW the goal of NCLB is not to get everyone to some arbitrary level of academic performance, but instead, it is to get all children to the point where they can be successful participants in adult society. Its goal is to instill confidence that a given child can succeed in what she sets out to do with what she had learned. Obviously she need competence in many things and she needs to get the support and tools she needs to have to become competent.

The problem is that you are confusing the stated goals with the actual results. The stated goals are laudable.

It really doesn't matter much what income levels are when one finds motivated parents throughout a district. The students will perform. It does matter whether the district supports maintaining high interest in parent support. To this end food programs and teacher neighborhood interaction programs are really good even if there need be cops around to protect teachers.

The really bad schools are because of a lack of motivated parents. The school can't fix this and blaming the school & teachers simply causes massive cheating on whatever your yardstick is. (And I won't blame them--NCLB is basically saying "you failed to work miracles with shit, you're incompetent and fired") It also will ratchet this up and in time destroy all public schools unless it's stopped.

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One last thing, the standards are used to create the budgets for the school districts. I don't entirely know how it works, but poorer performing schools don't get as much money I believe (which seems counter-intuitive so I may be wrong here).

Yeah, that's the idea. Destroy the lowest ranking schools. Now some more schools are lowest, destroy them. Repeat until there are no more public schools.
 
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