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Will the Trump cult destroy the GOP?

SLD

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So Liz Cheney has been kicked out of the Republican Party. Hardly surprising. It seems the litmus test for Republicans these days is whether you’re willing to say Trump won the election or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is no longer welcome in the party, a litmus test that could break their power. The problem is that not all Republicans support this view. Various polls show that between 25-35% of Republicans believe Biden won fair and square. Most independents do too. So given the razor thin margins in many key races these days, can the Republican Part afford to alienate so many voters? Not that they’ll vote Democrat, but they may not show up. or they may vote third party.

I note specifically the governor‘s race in Georgia, where Kemp is in trouble over the election results. Trump is unhappy so Kemp will likely face a challenger in the primary with Trump’s backing, probably Sen. Perdue. He could lose for that reason. But he only narrowly defeated Stacy Abrams In 2018. So I wonder how that will impact the race. Abrams will have a tougher time this go round with a Dem in the White House.

I wonder if this issue will play all the way out over the long term and rot the party from the inside? Trump may fire up a base, but he may also burn down the GOP entirely while doing so.
 

marc

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He is alienating the saner republicans and independents. By politicizing the pandemic he is killing off some of his supporters, and probably alienating some of the survivors and loved ones of those that didn't survive. Plus the endless pushing of the lie that the voting system is rigged may encourage others to not bother voting.

This however will be offset by all the efforts to rig elections in states controlled by republicans. Hard to say if those efforts will be enough to maintain power, but they are likely never going to see a popular vote win again.
 

ZiprHead

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Either that, or they will destroy the country.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I thought W was pulling the GOP too far right. Sen. Jeffords jumped shipped... the ship was sinki... no wait... it right'd itself.

The base has been skewing towards insanity since Schmidt made the dumbass idea of naming firebrand / political new-comer and short lived failure Sarah Palin to McCain's ticket. 2012, the base was falling over itself to not nominate Romney... and in 2016, they found their anti-Christ in Trump. Oddly, even if this movement did ultimately ruin the GOP, I don't think it will before it ruins our democracy in general, the GOP made its mark in the courts and SCOTUS. That victory is what has ensured at least a decent measure of enduring right-wing to far right-wing influence for a while, because now the Democrats can pass legislation the courts can just do away with because "unconstitutional".

Trump's victory in 2016, along with McConnell's shrewdness ensured a legacy of remarkable influence for at least a decade or two.

That said, Roe v Wade is going to be the wild card and the outcome of SCOTUS's act at erasing parts (or all of) it is entirely unpredictable. Might end up a whimper at the polls or there could be a wave that'd make 1984 look like a birthday party for the Dems.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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He is alienating the saner republicans and independents.
This is the mistaken take in all of this. Trump's presidency was a Broadway folly, except the courts. And that is where the legacy exists. Trump didn't accomplish nearly anything except signing off on a major corporate tax cut and GOP's judicial selections including 3 SCOTUS picks, one of which was illegitimate.

The funny thing is the intellectual right-wing kind of gets its cake and has it too. They aren't voting for the Democrat(s), so they can talk all they want about how Trump isn't right, but they'll vote for him, almost all of them did, and get the judicial appointments that push their agendas... while getting to pretend they were against Trump the whole time.
 

TomC

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I don't think that Trump is the illness, I think he's a symptom of a bigger problem.

I think the real problem is the culture of victimhood and entitlement, here in the U.S. If things don't work out the way we want them to work out, we're victims and entitled to something we do prefer. We believe that we're victims of some conspiracy or another, from Deep State to systemic racism, it's all over the place. If you're unhappy about how things are, the answer is to make other people change.

Take, as an example, the premise that a political candidate was too popular to lose. Their failure to attain office had to be a result of a conspiracy to commit fraud. The system is rigged. "Stop The Steal"! It isn't just the Trumpistas claiming this. The Sanderistas did as well.

Their candidates couldn't have lost because their candidates are too extreme for the bulk of the USA electorate. That cannot be possible, at least not for people who live in ideological bubbles, where "everybody knows" which candidate truly represents real Americans.

It gets old, for us nonpartisan centrists who just want a functional government.
Tom
 

RVonse

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So Liz Cheney has been kicked out of the Republican Party. Hardly surprising. It seems the litmus test for Republicans these days is whether you’re willing to say Trump won the election or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is no longer welcome in the party, a litmus test that could break their power. The problem is that not all Republicans support this view. Various polls show that between 25-35% of Republicans believe Biden won fair and square. Most independents do too. So given the razor thin margins in many key races these days, can the Republican Part afford to alienate so many voters? Not that they’ll vote Democrat, but they may not show up. or they may vote third party.

I note specifically the governor‘s race in Georgia, where Kemp is in trouble over the election results. Trump is unhappy so Kemp will likely face a challenger in the primary with Trump’s backing, probably Sen. Perdue. He could lose for that reason. But he only narrowly defeated Stacy Abrams In 2018. So I wonder how that will impact the race. Abrams will have a tougher time this go round with a Dem in the White House.

I wonder if this issue will play all the way out over the long term and rot the party from the inside? Trump may fire up a base, but he may also burn down the GOP entirely while doing so.
Is Liz Cheney being kicked out for her stance with Trump or is she being kicked out because she is not towing the party line? And if she is not helping to tow the party line (for whatever reason that might be) is it not reasonable to ask why she even wants to be a republican?

The reason I ask this is because most of my working life I have belonged to a trade union and there have been times that my union does things I do not like. But when that happens, I do still pay my dues and still support my union because that is what belonging to an organization has to be about. If you want to be a Republican you have to support the goals of that party even if they are doing things you do not like.

Otherwise, people going in all different directions is what really will doom the Republican party.
 

ZiprHead

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So Liz Cheney has been kicked out of the Republican Party. Hardly surprising. It seems the litmus test for Republicans these days is whether you’re willing to say Trump won the election or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is no longer welcome in the party, a litmus test that could break their power. The problem is that not all Republicans support this view. Various polls show that between 25-35% of Republicans believe Biden won fair and square. Most independents do too. So given the razor thin margins in many key races these days, can the Republican Part afford to alienate so many voters? Not that they’ll vote Democrat, but they may not show up. or they may vote third party.

I note specifically the governor‘s race in Georgia, where Kemp is in trouble over the election results. Trump is unhappy so Kemp will likely face a challenger in the primary with Trump’s backing, probably Sen. Perdue. He could lose for that reason. But he only narrowly defeated Stacy Abrams In 2018. So I wonder how that will impact the race. Abrams will have a tougher time this go round with a Dem in the White House.

I wonder if this issue will play all the way out over the long term and rot the party from the inside? Trump may fire up a base, but he may also burn down the GOP entirely while doing so.
Is Liz Cheney being kicked out for her stance with Trump or is she being kicked out because she is not towing the party line? And if she is not helping to tow the party line (for whatever reason that might be) is it not reasonable to ask why she even wants to be a republican?

The reason I ask this is because most of my working life I have belonged to a trade union and there have been times that my union does things I do not like. But when that happens, I do still pay my dues and still support my union because that is what belonging to an organization has to be about. If you want to be a Republican you have to support the goals of that party even if they are doing things you do not like.

Otherwise, people going in all different directions is what really will doom the Republican party.
LC voted along the party line 93%. She's one of the most conservative members of congress. The difference is she is ethical and the rest of the party is not.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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So Liz Cheney has been kicked out of the Republican Party. Hardly surprising. It seems the litmus test for Republicans these days is whether you’re willing to say Trump won the election or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is no longer welcome in the party, a litmus test that could break their power. The problem is that not all Republicans support this view. Various polls show that between 25-35% of Republicans believe Biden won fair and square. Most independents do too. So given the razor thin margins in many key races these days, can the Republican Part afford to alienate so many voters? Not that they’ll vote Democrat, but they may not show up. or they may vote third party.

I note specifically the governor‘s race in Georgia, where Kemp is in trouble over the election results. Trump is unhappy so Kemp will likely face a challenger in the primary with Trump’s backing, probably Sen. Perdue. He could lose for that reason. But he only narrowly defeated Stacy Abrams In 2018. So I wonder how that will impact the race. Abrams will have a tougher time this go round with a Dem in the White House.

I wonder if this issue will play all the way out over the long term and rot the party from the inside? Trump may fire up a base, but he may also burn down the GOP entirely while doing so.
Is Liz Cheney being kicked out for her stance with Trump or is she being kicked out because she is not towing the party line?
The first one.
And if she is not helping to tow the party line (for whatever reason that might be) is it not reasonable to ask why she even wants to be a republican?
Donald Trump's lie on the 2020 Election isn't the Republican Party. Though some in the GOP seem to feel it is.
 

prideandfall

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Donald Trump's lie on the 2020 Election isn't the Republican Party. Though some in the GOP seem to feel it is.
i'm sorry, but it absolutely is - for decades now a central political tenet of the GOP has been the blocking of voting rights for as many people as possible and rigging districting and such in order to fix the voting process to win elections.
just refusing to accept the results of a vote count and then insisting that you won no matter what is simply the next inevitable phase of a party where free and open voting is not a goal.

trump didn't change the GOP, this whole "trump's republican party" line is nonsense.
trump is the conservative ideology manifested into physical reality, he's everything that conservatives are and have always been, the *only* difference is that the slimy veneer of professional decorum that establishment politicos, such mcconnel and ryan and the like, keep up for the sake of appearances.

that lack of saying the quiet part quiet is the only thing separating trump from the GOP, because they are 100% lockstep in every other way.
everything trump does and says is the culmination of the last 60 years of conservative values, he's the heart of the political movement made flesh.
acting like there are 'sane' GOP members is a fantasy, they are all trump, he's just what happens when they stop trying to hide behind a decaying skin suit.
 

Politesse

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To say that Trump, an actor and a con man, is the true driving force behind this movement is absurd, as it suggests that he has a very compelling political ideology with which he can swing people away from their party. He doesn't; most of the time he transparently lets the conservative media determine his talking points for the day, and lets the conservative desire for a wealthy bellwether paper over whatever parts of the message he gets wrong as he fumbles around in his trademark salad of toddler words. This machine of outrage preceded him, and he doesn't steer it so much as capitalize on the directions it steers him.
 

funinspace

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So Liz Cheney has been kicked out of the Republican Party. Hardly surprising. It seems the litmus test for Republicans these days is whether you’re willing to say Trump won the election or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is no longer welcome in the party, a litmus test that could break their power. The problem is that not all Republicans support this view. Various polls show that between 25-35% of Republicans believe Biden won fair and square. Most independents do too. So given the razor thin margins in many key races these days, can the Republican Part afford to alienate so many voters? Not that they’ll vote Democrat, but they may not show up. or they may vote third party.

I note specifically the governor‘s race in Georgia, where Kemp is in trouble over the election results. Trump is unhappy so Kemp will likely face a challenger in the primary with Trump’s backing, probably Sen. Perdue. He could lose for that reason. But he only narrowly defeated Stacy Abrams In 2018. So I wonder how that will impact the race. Abrams will have a tougher time this go round with a Dem in the White House.

I wonder if this issue will play all the way out over the long term and rot the party from the inside? Trump may fire up a base, but he may also burn down the GOP entirely while doing so.
Is Liz Cheney being kicked out for her stance with Trump or is she being kicked out because she is not towing the party line?
The first one.
And if she is not helping to tow the party line (for whatever reason that might be) is it not reasonable to ask why she even wants to be a republican?
Donald Trump's lie on the 2020 Election isn't the Republican Party. Though some in the GOP seem to feel it is.
^Yup!

So RVonse, just what part of the GOP party line is Liz Cheney not supporting? The only thing I see the very conservative Repug Liz not supporting is the Clownstick cult and his non-stop lies about the 2020 election. She supports democracy over fascism. Or is fascism a new Repug party platform?
 

SLD

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So Liz Cheney has been kicked out of the Republican Party. Hardly surprising. It seems the litmus test for Republicans these days is whether you’re willing to say Trump won the election or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is no longer welcome in the party, a litmus test that could break their power. The problem is that not all Republicans support this view. Various polls show that between 25-35% of Republicans believe Biden won fair and square. Most independents do too. So given the razor thin margins in many key races these days, can the Republican Part afford to alienate so many voters? Not that they’ll vote Democrat, but they may not show up. or they may vote third party.

I note specifically the governor‘s race in Georgia, where Kemp is in trouble over the election results. Trump is unhappy so Kemp will likely face a challenger in the primary with Trump’s backing, probably Sen. Perdue. He could lose for that reason. But he only narrowly defeated Stacy Abrams In 2018. So I wonder how that will impact the race. Abrams will have a tougher time this go round with a Dem in the White House.

I wonder if this issue will play all the way out over the long term and rot the party from the inside? Trump may fire up a base, but he may also burn down the GOP entirely while doing so.
Is Liz Cheney being kicked out for her stance with Trump or is she being kicked out because she is not towing the party line?
The first one.
And if she is not helping to tow the party line (for whatever reason that might be) is it not reasonable to ask why she even wants to be a republican?
Donald Trump's lie on the 2020 Election isn't the Republican Party. Though some in the GOP seem to feel it is.
^Yup!

So RVonse, just what part of the GOP party line is Liz Cheney not supporting? The only thing I see the very conservative Repug Liz not supporting is the Clownstick cult and his non-stop lies about the 2020 election. She supports democracy over fascism. Or is fascism a new Repug party platform?
Yeah, but the point is she’s been kicked out of the party for this particular stand despite agreeing with them on every other stand. The lie is the Republican Party. It’s the litmus test of what makes you a Republican at this point.

But definitely not all Republicans believe this shit. And I for one hope they screw over the party as a result.
 

TomC

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Is Liz Cheney being kicked out for her stance with Trump or is she being kicked out because she is not towing the party line? And if she is not helping to tow the party line (for whatever reason that might be) is it not reasonable to ask why she even wants to be a republican?
I've been watching this attitude growing in the GOP since the 90s. Folks who are experienced, effective, conservative and bipartisan getting labeled DINO and booted out. If a candidate cares more about the best for the country than the best for the Republican elite they get trashed.
I've got opinions about why this has happened, but it definitely has.

It's why, despite opposing many planks in the Democratic platform, I've become a straight ticket Democrat voter. Because, icky as they are, Democrats still put country first. Republicans put party first.

If gerrymandering and voter suppression helps the Party, then fuck democracy. If lying about the election helps the Party, then fuck basic U.S. institutions. Fiscal sanity went out the window years ago. So did personal integrity.

I'm one of those people who did not leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me.

Tom
 

funinspace

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Is Liz Cheney being kicked out for her stance with Trump or is she being kicked out because she is not towing the party line? And if she is not helping to tow the party line (for whatever reason that might be) is it not reasonable to ask why she even wants to be a republican?
I've been watching this attitude growing in the GOP since the 90s. Folks who are experienced, effective, conservative and bipartisan getting labeled DINO and booted out. If a candidate cares more about the best for the country than the best for the Republican elite they get trashed.
I've got opinions about why this has happened, but it definitely has.

It's why, despite opposing many planks in the Democratic platform, I've become a straight ticket Democrat voter. Because, icky as they are, Democrats still put country first. Republicans put party first.

If gerrymandering and voter suppression helps the Party, then fuck democracy. If lying about the election helps the Party, then fuck basic U.S. institutions. Fiscal sanity went out the window years ago. So did personal integrity.

I'm one of those people who did not leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me.

Tom
DINO or RINO...LOL

Anywho, though I've changed from my younger years becoming more liberal, from my libertarian leaning Republicanism, back in the 1990's I felt the Repugs leaving my views as much as me leaving them.

And though I also don't agree with many Democratic platform ideas, I agree with far more liberals/Democratic views than almost any Republican views/lies today.
 
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