Windows 11

[The Colourful Jester]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5egaM2hibs


Minimum system requirements
Processor 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or System on a Chip (SoC)
Memory 4 GB RAM
Storage 64 GB or larger storage device
System firmware UEFI, Secure Boot capable
TPM Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0

Graphics card DirectX 12 compatible graphics / WDDM 2.x
Display >9” with HD Resolution (720p)
Internet connection Microsoft account and internet connectivity required for setup for Windows 11 Home
Certain features require specific hardware, see detailed system requirements.

------------

So, what are we thinking?

 

[steve_bank]

Alls I care about s a browser and running a few apps.

What it does, as usual, potentially forces major software developers to make changes. And users to pay the
Microsoft Tax' in upgrades when their SW no longer runs.

To me W10 is no better than W7. pm W10 I deleted or disabled most of the apps that were installed. Turned off all unnecessary services.

MS has to turn things over, otherwise they hit market saturation.

 

[ZiprHead]

Pardon me for invoking a deity but, Oh, good lord!

 

[steve_bank]

With its global installed base and major sw invested ed in it, MS has us all by the balls, so to speak.

Windows is a framework to channel sales to MS. A bitter, harsh, unrelenting, winner take all,kill or be killed. take no prisoners reality.

Love Microsoft, errr Big Brother?

End of rant and venting.

 

[bilby]

With its global installed base and major sw invested ed in it, MS has us all by the balls, so to speak.

Not me. I don't use any of their software. Haven't for years.

 

[bigfield]

My work probably won't upgrade to WIn11 until 2025, when Microsoft ends support for Win10.

It looks like Win11 introduces an improved virtual desktop switcher.

https://www.windowslatest.com/2021/06/24/whats-new-in-windows-11-arriving-later-this-year/

I've been using a similar feature in Xfce for a few years now called Workspace Switcher: I have three "desktops" which I can switch between using small controls on the panel (taskbar) or by using Ctrl+F1, Ctrl+F2, Ctrl+F3. I put my dev tools on #1, Spotify and webmail on #2, and #3 is for random crap. It's also easy to move windows between workspaces (drag-and-drop). The only serious limitation is that I can't dedicate monitors to separate workspaces.

It bugged me that I couldn't set up the same thing on Win7, and I just never bothered to look for it in Win10. I don't get any use of out the task view in Win10, and never even realised I could use it to create multiple desktops.

 

[fromderinside]

I accomplish most of that to which you refer just by using a cloud.

 

[DBT]

Winq11? I thought Win10 was supposed to be upgraded indefinitely.

 

[bigfield]

Winq11? I thought Win10 was supposed to be upgraded indefinitely.

That's the impression I got, too, and that's what a lot of people were saying, at least before Windows 11 was announced.

Windows 10 users will be able to upgrade to Windows 11 for free, provided that their PC meets the minimum hardware requirements.

This is how some people moved from Win7 to Win10 (including me). Before Win10, Windows users couldn't upgrade to a new major version; they had to wipe their hard drive and reinstall the new OS as a fresh installation. So from a user's point of view, WIndows 7, Windows Vista and Windows 8 were entirely different operating systems, despite having a lot in common and being basically the same OS in most ways.

After Windows 11, there will be a 12, and a 13 and so on, but there will most likely be a relatively clean and simple upgrade path to move from one to the next. So from the user's point of view, Windows 10, 11, 12, 13 etc. will all just be the same OS, but with changes in the user interface and both new and deprecated features,

My point being, it's a matter of semantics: the Windows operating system can now be upgraded indefinitely without having to wipe your PC and start afresh, and the Windows version number will change whenever they make a bunch of major changes (and hire a graphic designer to make a new logo and desktop background).

I believe macOS works this way: users upgrade to the latest OS until their machine no longer meets the hardware requirements.

Some Linux distros work this way, too: Linux Mint and Ubuntu periodically release new major versions and you have to do an upgrade. Mind you, these version upgrades don't tend to result in dramatic changes to the user interface, you just get newer versions of apps and various bits and pieces that make up the operating system.

Other distros (like Arch Linux) do a rolling release, which is a great way for users to waste huge amounts of time dealing with broken experimental software.

 

[bilby]

Winq11? I thought Win10 was supposed to be upgraded indefinitely.

That's the impression I got, too, and that's what a lot of people were saying, at least before Windows 11 was announced.

Windows 10 users will be able to upgrade to Windows 11 for free, provided that their PC meets the minimum hardware requirements.

This is how some people moved from Win7 to Win10 (including me). Before Win10, Windows users couldn't upgrade to a new major version; they had to wipe their hard drive and reinstall the new OS as a fresh installation. So from a user's point of view, WIndows 7, Windows Vista and Windows 8 were entirely different operating systems, despite having a lot in common and being basically the same OS in most ways.

After Windows 11, there will be a 12, and a 13 and so on, but there will most likely be a relatively clean and simple upgrade path to move from one to the next. So from the user's point of view, Windows 10, 11, 12, 13 etc. will all just be the same OS, but with changes in the user interface and both new and deprecated features,

My point being, it's a matter of semantics: the Windows operating system can now be upgraded indefinitely without having to wipe your PC and start afresh, and the Windows version number will change whenever they make a bunch of major changes (and hire a graphic designer to make a new logo and desktop background).

I believe macOS works this way: users upgrade to the latest OS until their machine no longer meets the hardware requirements.

Some Linux distros work this way, too: Linux Mint and Ubuntu periodically release new major versions and you have to do an upgrade. Mind you, these version upgrades don't tend to result in dramatic changes to the user interface, you just get newer versions of apps and various bits and pieces that make up the operating system.

Other distros (like Arch Linux) do a rolling release, which is a great way for users to waste huge amounts of time dealing with broken experimental software.

It's that 'minimum hardware requirements' that's the kicker. If your hardware doesn't have at least an Intel 8th Gen Core or AMD Ryzen 2000 chipset; or doesn't have TPM2.0, then it doesn't matter whether the upgrade path is via a free download and update or a complete reinstall - Win11 won't work.

I foresee a lot of Linux users in the not too distant future. Most (but not all) hardware originally sold with Win10 should be compatible, but if you have older hardware that was upgraded to 10, it's quite likely that it won't.

Given the choice of buying an expensive new computer, or switching to a free OS that doesn't try to fuck you over every few years, the latter strikes me as preferable - particularly now that even older hardware has plenty of grunt. Gamers excepted, who really needs a more powerful computer than their current machine? For most non-gaming users, network latency and bandwidth are the major constraint on user experience, and those are almost certainly unaffected by the computer hardware or software itself.

 

[bigfield]

It's that 'minimum hardware requirements' that's the kicker. If your hardware doesn't have at least an Intel 8th Gen Core or AMD Ryzen 2000 chipset; or doesn't have TPM2.0, then it doesn't matter whether the upgrade path is via a free download and update or a complete reinstall - Win11 won't work.

I foresee a lot of Linux users in the not too distant future. Most (but not all) hardware originally sold with Win10 should be compatible, but if you have older hardware that was upgraded to 10, it's quite likely that it won't.

Given the choice of buying an expensive new computer, or switching to a free OS that doesn't try to fuck you over every few years, the latter strikes me as preferable - particularly now that even older hardware has plenty of grunt. Gamers excepted, who really needs a more powerful computer than their current machine? For most non-gaming users, network latency and bandwidth are the major constraint on user experience, and those are almost certainly unaffected by the computer hardware or software itself.

Besides gamers, I can think of a couple of other groups of users who will not switch to Linux:
1. People who use Windows at work, where the business decides which OS to use.
2. Casual home users, who will just stick with Windows 10 if they can't upgrade and then fork out for a new device sooner or later.

Which covers pretty much everyone with a PC who isn't already using Linux.

The thing about Linux is that while it's "a free OS that doesn't try to fuck you over every few years", pretty much every Linux distro accidentally fucks you over from time to time. Printer and scanner drivers, sound drivers, video drivers, fancy keyboard drivers, all of which are potential a headache at one point or another. I'm a competent computer user and I haven't figured out how to use the scanner on my Brother MFC with my PC. I also need to buy a USB webcam later this year but I'm paralysed because I have no idea which ones will work.

 

[fromderinside]

The history of coding applications are histories of increasing code, workarounds, and patches correcting something that wasn't properly analyzed during initial design phases due to cost and need to get something out.

Structured design loses to demand for product now every time. Back in the day I was in position where I could more or less force absolute adherence to structured development and design and development at an SSSA at Point Mugu.

Then I went to commercial design and development. Same control of process until I wasn't because some admiral got a bug put up his ass put there by influential voter - someone on a customer's board of trustees complaining they couldn't meet schedule or maintenance because they didn't have enough trained staff.

At the time most of those in decision making positions were post Korea seat-of-the pants look-out-the-windscreen pilots and captains. Similarly projects within company at MDC and Boeing were resisting any increase in design and support talent because it costs-too-much.

MDC was particularly bad. They resorted to artists drawings rather that train and equip design efforts with knowledgeable up to date CAD, engineering and management. all for the wont of software that supported three D loft. End result a $2 billion dollar penalty and reduction in number of planes contracted in 1990. Hurt the company, hurt the AF and Navy, hurt our readiness for conflict.

For anyone interested you can go back to the seventies and read the case of the death of IBM's system 370 and the law of diminishing effectiveness of systems with increase in code.

 

[steve_bank]

Don't get me wrong, Windows is a staggering achievment.

Ass from different sources freely interact with data. Copy and paste across apps. A decto global platform.

Windows is an asynchrounous system. meaning inputs and evets are not preditable.


When I took a class at Intel someone questioned the Intel 64k memory segmentaion. The instructor said 'anyone who writes more than 64k of code is in the mad scientist category'. There was a saying code expands to fill memory.

I'd say the problem with Windows is they keep adding functionality. The amot of disk space is ridiculous. Also unless you disable update Windows is constantly updating, consuming data usage.

An OS is simply file mangemet and program exexution. MS tries to make it do everything anybody coud possible want.
It is very difficult to validate, it cam not be dome analysticaly. You have to run test cases.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So will Windows 11 not be one-click away from compromising your entire Operating System?

Regarding the minimum requirement for the space of Windows 11, my work Windows 10 is a gargantuan behemoth on the hard drive, over 100 GB (Windows Directory). For the life of me, I have no idea what Windows 10 provided that 7 didn't. And now 11 is coming out.

 

[ZiprHead]

Disk space really shouldn't be an issue nowadays. There's a lot of computers out there that are not TPM* equipped though. None of mine have it.

*Trusted Platform Module

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Disk space really shouldn't be an issue nowadays. There's a lot of computers out there that are not TPM* equipped though. None of mine have it.

*Trusted Platform Module

Yeah. Other than the TPM issue any machine that doesn't meet these specs isn't worth having in the first place.

I can't see why they're trying to force TPM, though.

 

[ZiprHead]

Disk space really shouldn't be an issue nowadays. There's a lot of computers out there that are not TPM* equipped though. None of mine have it.

*Trusted Platform Module

Yeah. Other than the TPM issue any machine that doesn't meet these specs isn't worth having in the first place.

I can't see why they're trying to force TPM, though.

Your status as a wealthy person is showing through again.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Disk space really shouldn't be an issue nowadays. There's a lot of computers out there that are not TPM* equipped though. None of mine have it.

*Trusted Platform Module

Yeah. Other than the TPM issue any machine that doesn't meet these specs isn't worth having in the first place.

I can't see why they're trying to force TPM, though.

Huh? I like to drag the rotting corpses of my older computers as far as I can before giving them up. Having something that is a 7th gen Intel processor or older isn't exactly stone age tech.

Regarding TPM, I think they might actually be trying to make computers more secure by adding the hardware element to it. But I was busy shoo'ing kids off my lawn when someone explained what TPM was.

Hard to tell, but I think my computer has the UEFI boot thing and TPM, but I have no idea what version. I've got an 8th Gen I5, but it sounds like even 8th gen might not be enough.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Disk space really shouldn't be an issue nowadays. There's a lot of computers out there that are not TPM* equipped though. None of mine have it.

*Trusted Platform Module

Yeah. Other than the TPM issue any machine that doesn't meet these specs isn't worth having in the first place.

I can't see why they're trying to force TPM, though.

Your status as a wealthy person is showing through again.

Any machine that doesn't meet those specs will make a snail look fast.

 

[atrib]

Disk space really shouldn't be an issue nowadays. There's a lot of computers out there that are not TPM* equipped though. None of mine have it.

*Trusted Platform Module

Yeah. Other than the TPM issue any machine that doesn't meet these specs isn't worth having in the first place.

I disagree. For a vast majority of things I use my computers for, a quad-core Intel 4790K is more than fast enough, and a current generation i7 processor provides no additional benefit. And that is a fourth generation Core i7 processor. I suspect the same can be said for a vast majority of people who use computers today for personal and work reasons. Heck, a much older Intel E8400 clocked to 4 GHz still works fine for most things people do today. Drawing an arbitrary line at the 8th Generation i7 processor makes no sense, other than to force people to buy new computers that provide no real benefit to them over what they use right now. I suspect MS is going to repeal this requirement.