# Woke is white arrogance

#### laughing dog

##### Contributor
He expressed an opinion at his place of work, while wearing his work uniform. He should have expressed his opinions (i.e. that police and prisons should be abolished etc.) on his own time.

To me, this was the only real problem. There's plenty of behavior that's perfectly acceptable, just not at work. And if I understand correctly, at least some of the management changed their minds. At which point, my only real objection went away. I saw Kaep as more like a Christian that makes his work fellows uncomfortable by going on and on about Jesus and getting everyone Saved. It's an opinion he is free to hold, but not make it an issue in the office. Same thing here.

And the fact is, Kaep has the money, looks, and fame that could make him a huge draw. He could have raised conciousness with rallies and interviews and all kinds of stuff. Using the team was counterproductive. Hypocritical as it is, the same guys who'll go fetch beer and snacks during the anthem will be pissed off by someone on the field behaving in a disrespectful way.

This just isn't that hard to understand..
Tom
Your posts are evidence to the contrary.

#### laughing dog

##### Contributor
Imagine that, Fox News sensationally misrepresented a story

Did not. The guy hates white people, as does the Afrikaner he approvingly quotes.
Note that the university (being a Catholic one) was only defending him stating that he did not mean the suicide (being against the Catechism) part literally. They did not even attempt to defend him on his anti-white racism, because they can't.
Perhaps they correctly perceived he did not display any anti-white racism.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
He expressed an opinion at his place of work, while wearing his work uniform. He should have expressed his opinions (i.e. that police and prisons should be abolished etc.) on his own time.

To me, this was the only real problem. There's plenty of behavior that's perfectly acceptable, just not at work. And if I understand correctly, at least some of the management changed their minds. At which point, my only real objection went away. I saw Kaep as more like a Christian that makes his work fellows uncomfortable by going on and on about Jesus and getting everyone Saved. It's an opinion he is free to hold, but not make it an issue in the office. Same thing here.

And the fact is, Kaep has the money, looks, and fame that could make him a huge draw. He could have raised conciousness with rallies and interviews and all kinds of stuff. Using the team was counterproductive. Hypocritical as it is, the same guys who'll go fetch beer and snacks during the anthem will be pissed off by someone on the field behaving in a disrespectful way.

This just isn't that hard to understand..
Tom
Your posts are evidence to the contrary.

Why would you post that without backing it up with anything?

Exactly what are my posts evidence of? Contrary to what?

Tom

#### laughing dog

##### Contributor
Your posts are evidence to the contrary.

Why would you post that without backing it up with anything?
I gave the presumption of rationality on the part of the reader.
Exactly what are my posts evidence of? Contrary to what?

Tom
Your posts are evidence that it is hard to understand because your posts are evidence you don't get it.

. Mr. Kaepernick was not offered a contract of any type by any team in the NFL despite the clear evidence he was sufficiently skilled to be a NFL quarterback. There is no evidence he priced himself out of the market. There is no evidence that his teammates or prospective teammates were uncomfortable with his beliefs or actions. None.

If you had bothered to read the Wikilink I posted twice, you'd have read that after his lawsuit was settled, one coach admitted it was a mistake to have not offered him a contract. Given Mr. Kaepernick's bona fides and the relative dearth of quarterback skill in the NFL, it is reasonable to conclude that the NFL owners colluded to keep him out of the NFL. The rationale for doing so is not known. But it is reasonable to conclude that it was not for football reasons. And, even though you have been asked repeatedly to produce evidence that it was for financial reason, you have produced none.

My conjecture is that the NFL over-reacted to a small but vocal minority of jackasses, bigots and Trumptards - it was easier to quiet that mob and send a message to the players by making an example of Mr. Kaepernick (a high profile player) than to live up the ideals of the United States of America. Of course, that is just a guess on my part.

Your responses on this topic show no recognition of any of that.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
I gave the presumption of rationality on the part of the reader.
Like Limbaugh, Trump, and MTG.

People who feel free to say things without bothering to support it, because "rational people" already know the truth.

Tom

#### Toni

##### Contributor
I gave the presumption of rationality on the part of the reader.
Like Limbaugh, Trump, and MTG.

People who feel free to say things without bothering to support it, because "rational people" already know the truth.

Tom

Actually, Trump, Limbaugh, and MTG and many others absolutely count on the unwillingness and inability of some people to actually read or understand what they read or to think rationally.

I do find your posts pretty inconsistent and often not easy to understand.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
Your posts are evidence that it is hard to understand because your posts are evidence you don't get it.

That's not at all specific.

Feel free to be specific about your claims, and not just assume that that the TFT community will support your assertions.
Tom

#### TSwizzle

##### Let's Go Brandon!
The woke have canceled Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown;

Roy 'Chubby' Brown fans have branded those who called for the Sheffield gig to be cancelled as "snowflakes".

North Yorkshire comedian Roy 'Chubby' Brown's show in the city was axed after thousands signed a petition calling for it to be cancelled. Sheffield City Hall then decided his comedy was not suited to the venue and scrapped the show.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/sheffields-fury-woke-decision-axe-21464729

This statement pretty much captures the putrid essence of woke;

Councillor Terry Fox, leader of Sheffield City Council, added: “The council wholeheartedly supports Sheffield City Trust’s decision to remove the booking for Roy Chubby Brown’s January show. Sheffield is a City of Sanctuary, with diverse communities and the content of this show is unlikely to reflect Sheffield’s inclusive values.”

What a trumpet.

#### laughing dog

##### Contributor
I gave the presumption of rationality on the part of the reader.
Like Limbaugh, Trump, and MTG.

People who feel free to say things without bothering to support it, because "rational people" already know the truth.

Tom
As usual, you miss the point. The presumption of rationality on the part of the reader means one assumes the reader can figure out what is being said, regardless of whether it is true or not.

I noticed you did not address the part that you asked for.

#### Loren Pechtel

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
The NFL blackballed him because almost all the owners are old white men.

His problem was that he played politics instead of just football. Any controversial message would have been a problem no matter where the owners stood on that position.

He wasn't playing politics. He was playing football. He expressed an opinion quietly and respectfully. It was an opinion the rightwingers didn't want to hear so they raised a huge stink and scared off potential employers.

Kaepernick knew going down on one knee during the anthem was likely to result in some pretty stiff consequences up to and including the end of his career, which is why he's admired for having courage as well as convictions. What I'd like to know is, is he woke?

He's not considered white in American culture, wasn't being arrogant or overbearing, and appears to be very sincere. He only seems to fit the first definition of 'woke' but according to DrZoidberg the first definition isn't definitive.

He used football for his message, not for their message.

If you get your boss in the news other than in a good way, expect it to be career-limiting.

Whether his bosses agreed with his position or not is irrelevant.

#### Loren Pechtel

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Cognitive ability is a powerful predictor of political tolerance

Cognitive ability was the single strongest predictor of political tolerance, with larger effects than education, openness to experience, ideology, and threat. The cognitively demanding nature of tolerance judgments was further supported by results showing cognitive ability predicted tolerance best when extending such tolerance was hardest.

In other words, Republicans are stupid.

Be careful of what you wish for!

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
I gave the presumption of rationality on the part of the reader.
Like Limbaugh, Trump, and MTG.

People who feel free to say things without bothering to support it, because "rational people" already know the truth.

Tom

Actually, Trump, Limbaugh, and MTG and many others absolutely count on the unwillingness and inability of some people to actually read or understand what they read or to think rationally.

I see a bunch of TFT's also count on that. It's a pandemic.
People believe whatever floats their boat, and just ignore facts that get in the way.

I do find your posts pretty inconsistent and often not easy to understand.
You could ask me what I meant. I try to be clear, even though I don't fit either the conservative or liberal norms.
Tom

#### Derec

##### Contributor

I have. The guy quoted anti-white racist shit approvingly.

Turn the races around. How many nanoseconds would it take a university to fire a professor talking about how there is something ethical in black people killing themselves, that black culture is black supremcism, that blackness should be castrated, that black people should give up their blackness etc.

So if it is abhorrent when said about blacks, why is it ok when this hate is targeting whites?

Perhaps they correctly perceived he did not display any anti-white racism.
That is bullshit, as he definitely did. Again, replace races. Do you still find it ok?

#### Derec

##### Contributor
That's the way you do it when you totally aren't a conservative, eh? Just can't bring yourself to admit you were wrong.
I am not a conservative and I am not wrong.

I never said it was an obscure term, and where I come from it has been in constant use for those decades,
It was definitely an obscure term. You may have heard it used in the radical lefty circles you move in, but it was not in widespread, and certainly not in mainstream, use until Ferguson rioters and activists popularized it.

gradually gaining more and more use as a compliment until the right-wing (I mean the totally not right-wing like Derec) noticed and had to turn it into a pejorative.

Those opposed to the left wing (not all of those are right-wing!) only started using it as a pejorative after it came into common usage via Ferguson insurrectionists. And there was nothing gradual about it either.

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
He wasn't playing politics. He was playing football. He expressed an opinion quietly and respectfully. It was an opinion the rightwingers didn't want to hear so they raised a huge stink and scared off potential employers.

Kaepernick knew going down on one knee during the anthem was likely to result in some pretty stiff consequences up to and including the end of his career, which is why he's admired for having courage as well as convictions. What I'd like to know is, is he woke?

He's not considered white in American culture, wasn't being arrogant or overbearing, and appears to be very sincere. He only seems to fit the first definition of 'woke' but according to DrZoidberg the first definition isn't definitive.

He used football for his message, not for their message.

If you get your boss in the news other than in a good way, expect it to be career-limiting.

Whether his bosses agreed with his position or not is irrelevant.

And we clearly see who you consider the slaves.

Black players.

How many crazy anti-vaxx white players are being blackballed for their dangerous ideas?

Kaepernick quietly knelt.

If a person has a problem with that they also have other serious problems.

#### DrZoidberg

##### Contributor
BTW Zizek is a supporter and fan of that long deceased Freudian con and fraud Lacan--so yeah, i want to dismiss him.

I wish I could argue against this. But I've read Lacan. He's got problems. Just because what he says is logical doesn't mean it makes sense. There's a lot of weak propositions with strong conclusions in his work. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a fraud. His Objet petit a model of desire is pretty spot on IMHO.

I read Lacan in formative years. I think it's good training in doing philosophy in general.

I think Zizek's life's work is to salvage what is good and reject that which is weak. I think he does a good job of that.

To quote Zizek. "The role of a philosopher isn't to come with answers. It's to come with new questions"

#### DrZoidberg

##### Contributor
“Gay” used to mean happy. Then it was coopted to mean something else.

It still means happy.

#### DrZoidberg

##### Contributor
The woke have canceled Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown;

Roy 'Chubby' Brown fans have branded those who called for the Sheffield gig to be cancelled as "snowflakes".

North Yorkshire comedian Roy 'Chubby' Brown's show in the city was axed after thousands signed a petition calling for it to be cancelled. Sheffield City Hall then decided his comedy was not suited to the venue and scrapped the show.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/sheffields-fury-woke-decision-axe-21464729

This statement pretty much captures the putrid essence of woke;

Councillor Terry Fox, leader of Sheffield City Council, added: “The council wholeheartedly supports Sheffield City Trust’s decision to remove the booking for Roy Chubby Brown’s January show. Sheffield is a City of Sanctuary, with diverse communities and the content of this show is unlikely to reflect Sheffield’s inclusive values.”

What a trumpet.

Isn't the lack of ticket sales all the petitions you need? If you need to make a petition to stop a guy from performing at a paid gig you've already lost the popular appeal. It's an activity intended to prevent something enough people are cool with, but this dick wants to use local government power, to stop it anyway. The fact that anybody has bought any tickets means that they should back off and let him perform. What a bunch of assholes.

BTW, I've seen one of his shows. I sat the whole time in shocked disbelief at the things that guy was saying. Not a progressive guy. I turned it off. I think this guy is a racist. I still think he should be allowed to perform. I'm completely cool about people not agreeing with me and my values.

#### laughing dog

##### Contributor

I have. The guy quoted anti-white racist shit approvingly.
You are mistaken.
Turn the races around. How many nanoseconds would it take a university to fire a professor talking about how there is something ethical in black people killing themselves, that black culture is black supremcism, that blackness should be castrated, that black people should give up their blackness etc.
Since no one said such things about white people, I fail to see what you are literally babbling about. The professor was quoting someone who was specifically talking about white people in South Africa. The professor said there was something psychologically ethical about the person's statement about white people in South Africa committing suicide. Finally, we have no idea how any of the comments fit in the context of his entire speech. For all we know, he was speaking figuratively not literally. After all, it is not literally possible to castrate whiteness. You are raving about something you don't understand.
That is bullshit, as he definitely did. Again, replace races. Do you still find it ok?
Fox reported quotes of a lecture and left the context out. You have misinterpreted some quotes and misrepresented some others.

I am not making stuff up without regards to the truth, so my response is not bullshit.

#### TSwizzle

##### Let's Go Brandon!
The woke have canceled Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown;

Roy 'Chubby' Brown fans have branded those who called for the Sheffield gig to be cancelled as "snowflakes".

North Yorkshire comedian Roy 'Chubby' Brown's show in the city was axed after thousands signed a petition calling for it to be cancelled. Sheffield City Hall then decided his comedy was not suited to the venue and scrapped the show.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/sheffields-fury-woke-decision-axe-21464729

This statement pretty much captures the putrid essence of woke;

Councillor Terry Fox, leader of Sheffield City Council, added: “The council wholeheartedly supports Sheffield City Trust’s decision to remove the booking for Roy Chubby Brown’s January show. Sheffield is a City of Sanctuary, with diverse communities and the content of this show is unlikely to reflect Sheffield’s inclusive values.”

What a trumpet.

Isn't the lack of ticket sales all the petitions you need? If you need to make a petition to stop a guy from performing at a paid gig you've already lost the popular appeal. It's an activity intended to prevent something enough people are cool with, but this dick wants to use local government power, to stop it anyway. The fact that anybody has bought any tickets means that they should back off and let him perform. What a bunch of assholes.

A bunch of woke assholes to be precise. What a crazy place the UK is. Years ago there used to be a busybody called Barbara Whitehouse who would try to censor this type of thing from people’s sensitive ears. She was mocked and ridiculed mercilessly. She’d be a hero to today’s wokesters.

Reminds me of when a certain Radio One DJ refused to play “Relax” by Frankie Goes To Hollywood. The song spent weeks at number one and the BBC wouldn’t allow them to perform on TOTP. The single was going nowhere until the ban.

BTW, I've seen one of his shows. I sat the whole time in shocked disbelief at the things that guy was saying. Not a progressive guy. I turned it off. I think this guy is a racist. I still think he should be allowed to perform. I'm completely cool about people not agreeing with me and my values.

I heard a recording of one of his performances many years ago but I don’t remember much about it. I believe his low brow humor appeals the lower classes and I suspect this is why he comes in for woke ire. They despise the dirty working class.

#### Loren Pechtel

##### Super Moderator
Staff member

And we clearly see who you consider the slaves.

Black players.

How many crazy anti-vaxx white players are being blackballed for their dangerous ideas?

Kaepernick quietly knelt.

If a person has a problem with that they also have other serious problems.

This has nothing to do with slavery, just normal expectations for employment.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness

And we clearly see who you consider the slaves.

Black players.

How many crazy anti-vaxx white players are being blackballed for their dangerous ideas?

Kaepernick quietly knelt.

If a person has a problem with that they also have other serious problems.

This has nothing to do with slavery, just normal expectations for employment.

Isn't it a hoot?
Kaep earns $5M/year playing ball. But then, when he can't do whatever he wants at work, suddenly the issue is slavery. Tom #### untermensche ##### Contributor Your master/slave mentality is noted. And we clearly see who you consider the slaves. Black players. How many crazy anti-vaxx white players are being blackballed for their dangerous ideas? Kaepernick quietly knelt. If a person has a problem with that they also have other serious problems. This has nothing to do with slavery, just normal expectations for employment. You want the employer to be able to force people to not kneel quietly during the national anthem. You want employees treated as slaves. Again, if a person has a problem with Kaepernick quietly kneeling they have a serious problem. #### untermensche ##### Contributor Your master/slave mentality is noted. And we clearly see who you consider the slaves. Black players. How many crazy anti-vaxx white players are being blackballed for their dangerous ideas? Kaepernick quietly knelt. If a person has a problem with that they also have other serious problems. This has nothing to do with slavery, just normal expectations for employment. Isn't it a hoot? Kaep earns$5M/year playing ball. But then, when he can't do whatever he wants at work, suddenly the issue is slavery.
Tom

This is about quietly kneeling during the national anthem.

It has nothing to do with Kaepernick's job as a QB.

If a person has a problem with Kaepernick quietly kneeling they have a serious problem.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
This is about quietly kneeling during the national anthem.

No it isn't.
Kaep could do that a dozen times a week. Nobody would care.

It was doing it on camera, in uniform, representing the folks paying him huge bucks that was the problem.

He can do it now all he wants and the NFL won't care.
Tom

Staff member

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
This is about quietly kneeling during the national anthem.

No it isn't.
Kaep could do that a dozen times a week. Nobody would care.

It was doing it on camera, in uniform, representing the folks paying him huge bucks that was the problem.

He can do it now all he wants and the NFL won't care.
Tom

Anybody who has a problem with a man quietly kneeling during the national anthem has a serious problem.

Being an employee is not being a slave even if some think it is.

Those people paying him are making money off him and living as a parasite off the talent of others.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
This is about quietly kneeling during the national anthem.

No it isn't.
Kaep could do that a dozen times a week. Nobody would care.

It was doing it on camera, in uniform, representing the folks paying him huge bucks that was the problem.

He can do it now all he wants and the NFL won't care.
Tom

Anybody who has a problem with a man quietly kneeling during the national anthem has a serious problem.

Being an employee is not being a slave even if some think it is.

I don't, as long as everyone else is OK with it.
Tom

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
Anybody who has a problem with a man quietly kneeling during the national anthem has a serious problem.

Being an employee is not being a slave even if some think it is.

I don't, as long as everyone else is OK with it.
Tom

There is nothing to have a problem with.

Forced patriotism is what totalitarian nations do.

Freedom means you don't have to stand for the stupid song.

Things only get better when people can freely protest.

If he interrupted the game, or even the song, that would be a different story.

But if a person has a problem with a man quietly kneeling they have more serious problems and should be opposed.

Kaepernick went to a veteran that was his friend to decide what to do. Kneeling quietly is a sign of respect.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
.Freedom means you don't have to stand for the stupid song.

I quite agree here.
Why is the anthem played at a ball game?
I think it's a holdover from McCarthy era politics.

But I couldn't care less about pro sports. The people who buy. The people who play. The people who own. The whole thing seems stupid to me.

Well,
If those big burly dudes started grabbing each other's tackle and piling on each other in skimpy outfits like girls wear, yeah. I'd be interested.
Tom

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
I staunchly supported Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.

I would also oppose a professional ball player wearing a "Vote Hillary" t-shirt on the field.
Tom

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
I staunchly supported Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.

I would also oppose a professional ball player wearing a "Vote Hillary" t-shirt on the field.
Tom

Quietly kneeling is not the same thing.

The players have to wear a specific uniform. That is the rules of the game not something dictated by owners.

You know what UNI FORM means right?

#### Trausti

##### Deleted
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.

If Kaepernick did not follow the plays sent in by the coach he could be fired.

The national anthem is not part of his job.

If a person has a problem with Kaepernick silently kneeling they have control issues.

#### Trausti

##### Deleted
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.

If Kaepernick did not follow the plays sent in by the coach he could be fired.

The national anthem is not part of his job.

If a person has a problem with Kaepernick silently kneeling they have control issues.

Was he wearing the uniform? On the field?

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
If Kaepernick did not follow the plays sent in by the coach he could be fired.

The national anthem is not part of his job.

If a person has a problem with Kaepernick silently kneeling they have control issues.

Was he wearing the uniform? On the field?

I hope so.

His job is to be a QB between the whistles.

Can people in uniform kneel on the sidelines when not playing?

#### laughing dog

##### Contributor
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.
If my memory is correct, Mr. Kaepernick's protest caused a larger furor than Tommy Smith and John Carlos's did in 1968.

It seems we haven't come as far in race relations as many people believe.

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.
If my memory is correct, Mr. Kaepernick's protest caused a larger furor than Tommy Smith and John Carlos's did in 1968.

It seems we haven't come as far in race relations as many people believe.

Underneath all this criticism of Kaepernick is racism and the mentality of white control over uppity black people and not much more.

#### DrZoidberg

##### Contributor
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.
If my memory is correct, Mr. Kaepernick's protest caused a larger furor than Tommy Smith and John Carlos's did in 1968.

It seems we haven't come as far in race relations as many people believe.

Surely the larger the protest the more the belief is mainstream? If Kaepernick's protest led to more protest doesn't it mean that race relations have improved? The intensity of the protest means that the sense of threat is greater. I'm pretty sure that in 1968 racists and white supremacists didn't feel particularly threatened. They had less reasons to show their anger. Fury is more a result of somebody feeling pushed into a corner rather than them feeling secure in their power. Not to mention Kaepernick had a greater fan club than Smith and Carlos did. The beatniks and hippies were a tiny tiny part of society. The wokes are the dominant power player in current politics.

No?

#### Jarhyn

##### Wizard
Pro sports is entertainment, like opera or a rap concert.

No form of entertainment is liked by everybody.

But the issue is a man quietly kneeling and fascists that have a problem with it.

Many that are racists.

An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.
If my memory is correct, Mr. Kaepernick's protest caused a larger furor than Tommy Smith and John Carlos's did in 1968.

It seems we haven't come as far in race relations as many people believe.

The individual you replied to just today dropped a deuce in another thread decrying progressives' lack of desire to discriminate racially "because genetics".

The script he wants them to follow is one pointedly written by old racists.

#### Don2 (Don1 Revised)

##### Contributor
An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.

I know this is hard for conservatives to understand because they think everything is fixed, but athletes are not actors. Athletes are professional sports players who try very hard to win. They have to practice a lot off-season and in-season, work out, etc. They can add some spice to what they do, like hanging after a slam dunk in basketball or like dancing after a touchdown, normal play is very rigid and often boring. Their contracts do not include acting. You must be thinking of professional wrestling. Spoiler Alert:

Professional wrestlers are in fact actors, but they are the EXCEPTION!

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.

I know this is hard for conservatives to understand because they think everything is fixed, but athletes are not actors. Athletes are professional sports players who try very hard to win. They have to practice a lot off-season and in-season, work out, etc. They can add some spice to what they do, like hanging after a slam dunk in basketball or like dancing after a touchdown, normal play is very rigid and often boring. Their contracts do not include acting. You must be thinking of professional wrestling. Spoiler Alert:

Professional wrestlers are in fact actors, but they are the EXCEPTION!

Professional wrestlers also suffer serious injuries live in pain and tend to die young.

Unlike mere actors.

#### Don2 (Don1 Revised)

##### Contributor
An athlete is an actor on a stage. Follow the script or we'll get someone else.

I know this is hard for conservatives to understand because they think everything is fixed, but athletes are not actors. Athletes are professional sports players who try very hard to win. They have to practice a lot off-season and in-season, work out, etc. They can add some spice to what they do, like hanging after a slam dunk in basketball or like dancing after a touchdown, normal play is very rigid and often boring. Their contracts do not include acting. You must be thinking of professional wrestling. Spoiler Alert:

Professional wrestlers are in fact actors, but they are the EXCEPTION!

Professional wrestlers also suffer serious injuries live in pain and tend to die young.

Unlike mere actors.

Yes, they do, and the athletes in context of what Trausti posted are not wrestlers. Professional wrestlers are more like actors than say professional football players. It doesn't make sense to call football players actors! It makes more sense to call wrestlers as actors. Football players are not taking steroids and doing dramatic skits as half the job, but wrestlers are. Either "sport" might be called entertaining and therefore, the players entertainers, but football is far more real. There isn't an actor's "script" mentioned in a contract or implied, but instead a simple appropriateness of behavior. Kneeling is respectful and therefore does not violate the contract of football players, at least at the time of the context of the discussion. Labeling the football players as "actors" is a false oversimplification to try to just sweep away these facts.

#### untermensche

##### Contributor
Professional wrestlers also suffer serious injuries live in pain and tend to die young.

Unlike mere actors.

Yes, they do, and the athletes in context of what Trausti posted are not wrestlers. Professional wrestlers are more like actors than say professional football players. It doesn't make sense to call football players actors! It makes more sense to call wrestlers as actors. Football players are not taking steroids and doing dramatic skits as half the job, but wrestlers are. Either "sport" might be called entertaining and therefore, the players entertainers, but football is far more real. There isn't an actor's "script" mentioned in a contract or implied, but instead a simple appropriateness of behavior. Kneeling is respectful and therefore does not violate the contract of football players, at least at the time of the context of the discussion. Labeling the football players as "actors" is a false oversimplification to try to just sweep away these facts.

They are not actors but sports is entertainment.

All entertainment is not acting.

#### Loren Pechtel

##### Super Moderator
Staff member

And we clearly see who you consider the slaves.

Black players.

How many crazy anti-vaxx white players are being blackballed for their dangerous ideas?

Kaepernick quietly knelt.

If a person has a problem with that they also have other serious problems.

This has nothing to do with slavery, just normal expectations for employment.

You want the employer to be able to force people to not kneel quietly during the national anthem.

You want employees treated as slaves.

Again, if a person has a problem with Kaepernick quietly kneeling they have a serious problem.

When you're on the clock you do what the boss tells you to do unless it's dangerous or illegal.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
When you're on the clock you do what the boss tells you to do unless it's dangerous or illegal.

If you want a football team to pay you $5M a year you gotta do what the management says, while in uniform, in front of fans. That's it. You can do anything you want the rest of the time. You could hold a rally for BLM with a spectacular finish, shooting bottle rockets at an American flag until it catches fire! No problem. It's just feeling entitled to do whatever you want at work that's the problem. Apparently, Mr. Kaepernik feels so entitled by his combination of 1% privileges and black privileges that rules don't apply to him. Why would they? Tom #### Don2 (Don1 Revised) ##### Contributor Professional wrestlers also suffer serious injuries live in pain and tend to die young. Unlike mere actors. Yes, they do, and the athletes in context of what Trausti posted are not wrestlers. Professional wrestlers are more like actors than say professional football players. It doesn't make sense to call football players actors! It makes more sense to call wrestlers as actors. Football players are not taking steroids and doing dramatic skits as half the job, but wrestlers are. Either "sport" might be called entertaining and therefore, the players entertainers, but football is far more real. There isn't an actor's "script" mentioned in a contract or implied, but instead a simple appropriateness of behavior. Kneeling is respectful and therefore does not violate the contract of football players, at least at the time of the context of the discussion. Labeling the football players as "actors" is a false oversimplification to try to just sweep away these facts. They are not actors but sports is entertainment. All entertainment is not acting. Right........ which is why I wrote that football players are not actors. ...to Trausti. ? That said, part of the wrestling job is in fact acting....but it's not part of football. #### Alcoholic Actuary ##### Senior Member When you're on the clock you do what the boss tells you to do unless it's dangerous or illegal. Really, I don't see what's difficult about this. If you want a football team to pay you$5M a year you gotta do what the management says, while in uniform, in front of fans.
That's it. You can do anything you want the rest of the time. You could hold a rally for BLM with a spectacular finish, shooting bottle rockets at an American flag until it catches fire! No problem.

It's just feeling entitled to do whatever you want at work that's the problem.
Apparently, Mr. Kaepernik feels so entitled by his combination of 1% privileges and black privileges that rules don't apply to him.

Why would they?
Tom

There's quite a bit more nuance to it than that. It's not like there is another 'National Football League' that Kaepernik could go to to play. The NFL is recognized as basically a monopoly (or more accurately a cartel of 32 independent actors "That are capable of conspiring under the Sherman Act")

To be sure, Kaep doesn't need yours or LP's or SF's or the NFL's permission to protest. But hypothetically - if I'm one of 32 employers within a cartel that hires primarily jewish bakers (and there is no other market for such), and I (and all other 32 owners) made all employees salute a nazi flag before work everyday, and I have this dude who vehemently protests doing so. So I fire her because her attention is bad for business and all 32 other owners know the same and so also don't hire her.

Am I justified in doing so? What is the difference if she could actually easily be hired (for roughly the same wages) under a different culture? Given the circumstances outlined, would you consider her brave or 'entitled'? For what position are you actually advocating?

aa