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Woman acts out Abraham's Sacrifice - but God doesn't say stop

SLD

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Quite a few acts and actors in the Good Book that would be considered criminals or psychotics today.
Odd this never seems to come up in Sunday sermons.
 

Tom Sawyer

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As much as I'd like to make a post deriding religion here, this is no more the fault of religion than D&D is the fault of kids committing suicide or girls dressing sexy is the fault of guys shooting a bunch of people.

Some people are just crazy and they give their crazy a focus on whatever happens to be a major part of their life. This is a sad story about how mentally ill people can harm those closest to them, not a story about religion.
 

Keith&Co.

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So....
'Gods don't kill people. People kill people,' sort of thing, that's what you're saying Tom?
 

Rhea

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As much as I'd like to make a post deriding religion here, this is no more the fault of religion than D&D is the fault of kids committing suicide or girls dressing sexy is the fault of guys shooting a bunch of people.

Some people are just crazy and they give their crazy a focus on whatever happens to be a major part of their life. This is a sad story about how mentally ill people can harm those closest to them, not a story about religion.

Unlike D&D, religion actually works hard to convince it's adherents to follow the precepts without questioning them. Some of them threaten you with shunning and excommunication if you don't believe "enough." The deliberately try to convince people that these deeds are Good and Holy and Flawless.
This is a huge honkin' difference. D&D does not do that at all.
 

jonJ

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As much as I'd like to make a post deriding religion here, this is no more the fault of religion than D&D is the fault of kids committing suicide or girls dressing sexy is the fault of guys shooting a bunch of people.

Some people are just crazy and they give their crazy a focus on whatever happens to be a major part of their life. This is a sad story about how mentally ill people can harm those closest to them, not a story about religion.

But I suspect an atheist who's going crazy might might be inclined to consult a doctor rather than a priest.
 

Tom Sawyer

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I had rather read Job.
Where a tornado or a traffic accident could have killed her daughter, instead, just because God wanted to prove a point?

No, I think his point was that it would have been better if she'd burned down her neighbour's house and killed his family in order to give him the opportunity to keep his faith in spite of tragedy.
 

braces_for_impact

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I have to agree with Tom's assessment. This poor woman was mentally ill. We don't know the entirety of circumstances involved, but looking into the church itself, it seems very liberal and far from the cult status some could be assigned. The suicide note is telling as well. Such a tragedy.
 

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http://mobile.rawstory.com/all/2014...ng-2-year-old-while-re-enacting-bible-story#1

And sure enough she manages to kill a two year old girl. She says she was inspired by her pastors sermon on Abraham's sacrifice. The pastor's response was that no one could have foreseen the consequences of the sermon. I'm sure not. Guess there is no god. Either that or he is a sadistic fuck.

SLD

The Bible does warn that believers would be persecuted for their beliefs, as this woman surely is. I will pray that the evil government will come to God and stop tormenting this obviously pious woman. [/conservativechristian]
 

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People who are mentally ill can latch onto anything to set them off. Such as thinking Beetles albums have secret messages for them.

However, some things help feed into the mental illness better than others. Anti-government conspiracy theories are a good example, giving justification for paranoia, and possibly leading acts of violence against the government. Religious text can do a lot of the same thing, but it depends on what they are actually teaching. Like I think Mormon beliefs on being able to communicate directly with god can be bad for those who think they hear voices. Snake handling speaks for itself.

I doubt this woman's church taught anything along the lines of what she did. Other than the general belief in superstitious nonsense, I wouldn't blame the church sermons, unless some specific teachings in them would support this.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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http://mobile.rawstory.com/all/2014...ng-2-year-old-while-re-enacting-bible-story#1

And sure enough she manages to kill a two year old girl. She says she was inspired by her pastors sermon on Abraham's sacrifice. The pastor's response was that no one could have foreseen the consequences of the sermon. I'm sure not. Guess there is no god. Either that or he is a sadistic fuck.

SLD
Except God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham didn't just do it out of the blue and God told him to stop.

What an utter gut wrenchingly needless tragedy! You need to be very sick to drown a toddler. The suicide note makes absolutely no sense. And why was this women raising children who weren't hers in the first place?!
 

J842P

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As much as I'd like to make a post deriding religion here, this is no more the fault of religion than D&D is the fault of kids committing suicide or girls dressing sexy is the fault of guys shooting a bunch of people.

Some people are just crazy and they give their crazy a focus on whatever happens to be a major part of their life. This is a sad story about how mentally ill people can harm those closest to them, not a story about religion.
I agree. And the pastor is right. No one could have predicted that. Millions, if not billions, of people hear sermons on that very same Bible story without trying to re-enact it.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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Sure, she was mentally ill, but it doesn't excuse these churches from peddling their barbarism like it's something good, which is exactly what they do.
 

C_Mucius_Scaevola

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Except God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham didn't just do it out of the blue and God told him to stop.

What an utter gut wrenchingly needless tragedy! You need to be very sick to drown a toddler. The suicide note makes absolutely no sense. And why was this women raising children who weren't hers in the first place?!

But who's to say "God" didn't command this woman to sacrifice her children, too? Only she can know that.

As long as churches are teaching that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son confers "righteousness" on him, there will be the possibility of emulation among their followers, particularly the mentally ill.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Except God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham didn't just do it out of the blue and God told him to stop.

What an utter gut wrenchingly needless tragedy! You need to be very sick to drown a toddler. The suicide note makes absolutely no sense. And why was this women raising children who weren't hers in the first place?!

But who's to say "God" didn't command this woman to sacrifice her children, too? Only she can know that.

As long as churches are teaching that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son confers "righteousness" on him, there will be the possibility of emulation among their followers, particularly the mentally ill.
Honestly, I have no idea why this story would be preached in the first place. It is the ultimate test of obedience and blind devotion. It is also an absurd test for an omnipotent god to perform. It tells us nothing about how we should behave, as god doesn't ask people to do things any more.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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Except God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham didn't just do it out of the blue and God told him to stop.

What an utter gut wrenchingly needless tragedy! You need to be very sick to drown a toddler. The suicide note makes absolutely no sense. And why was this women raising children who weren't hers in the first place?!

But who's to say "God" didn't command this woman to sacrifice her children, too? Only she can know that.

As long as churches are teaching that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son confers "righteousness" on him, there will be the possibility of emulation among their followers, particularly the mentally ill.
If Abraham was willing to do this then Abraham was just as retarded as this woman, and any decent person would recognize that Abraham is not to be envied and emulated. If you're a preacher that doesn't recognize that and you preach it as something good then you deserve to be hung by your nuts - or whatever - when someone goes out and does exactly what you told them is a good thing to do.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Except God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham didn't just do it out of the blue and God told him to stop.

What an utter gut wrenchingly needless tragedy! You need to be very sick to drown a toddler. The suicide note makes absolutely no sense. And why was this women raising children who weren't hers in the first place?!

But who's to say "God" didn't command this woman to sacrifice her children, too? Only she can know that.

As long as churches are teaching that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son confers "righteousness" on him, there will be the possibility of emulation among their followers, particularly the mentally ill.
If Abraham was willing to do this then Abraham was just as retarded as this woman, and any decent person would recognize that Abraham is not to be envied and emulated.
But the story isn't as much about Abraham as it is about Issac. God to Issac is "The Fear of Issac". This is his tale more than Abraham. We already know that Abraham has blind devotion to god. He did everything that was asked of him. The story explains the origin to Issac's devotion to god.

Issac really doesn't get much airtime in Genesis. He didn't rate well with the 18-24 male audience. So they had to swap over to Jacob quickly. I think Esau is in more of Genesis than Issac. Poor Issac. Even his wife, the Hillary Clinton of the Bible, has a stronger presence. So they needed to write this up, to explain his relation to God, and then quickly write him off the script.
If you're a preacher that doesn't recognize that and you preach it as something good then you deserve to be hung by your nuts when someone goes out and does exactly what you told them is a good thing to do.
Which is why I don't understand preaching the story at all. It has no relevance to faith today.
 

Keith&Co.

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If you're a preacher that doesn't recognize that and you preach it as something good then you deserve to be hung by your nuts when someone goes out and does exactly what you told them is a good thing to do.
Which is why I don't understand preaching the story at all. It has no relevance to faith today.
Sure it does.
The RCC's main problem with American Catholics today is that they don't just accept things on faith.
They ask questions. They ask for assurances that money donated to the church is going to identified charities, not to legal fees or settlements or lawsuit awards. They want to know about any pedophilia in a priest's previous assignments. They quit a long teaching career rather than sign a statement giving up their rights to free speech outside of the classroom.
Uppity bastards.
I'm sure the Bishops would love for the laity to just shut up and do as their told by their religious authority figures.
I'm sure Robertson would love for people to accept his pronouncements as if he were God's Only Prophet, taking every fool thing at face value, just as a matter of faith.

This would be why the message keeps getting pounded. It's a good thing to do what you're told, without question. It's righteous. YOU would be righteous for doing that.

Unless it's a tragedy, then, hey, we never told you to do THAT. Do as we say, you know, except for when we really would have wished you to think for yourself.
 

Malintent

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As much as I'd like to make a post deriding religion here, this is no more the fault of religion than D&D is the fault of kids committing suicide or girls dressing sexy is the fault of guys shooting a bunch of people.

Some people are just crazy and they give their crazy a focus on whatever happens to be a major part of their life. This is a sad story about how mentally ill people can harm those closest to them, not a story about religion.

Yes, but what is the standard reaction of the American public, but "Lawsuit, Regulation, and BAN, BAN, BAN!!!".
I would like to see a precident of church liability when people act on the "advice" of irresponsible influencers as such.
 

Perspicuo

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So....
'Gods don't kill people. People kill people,' sort of thing, that's what you're saying Tom?

Gods don't create people. People create Gods. Stupid people infect with stupid the things they create.
 

credoconsolans

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Except God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham didn't just do it out of the blue and God told him to stop.

What an utter gut wrenchingly needless tragedy! You need to be very sick to drown a toddler. The suicide note makes absolutely no sense. And why was this women raising children who weren't hers in the first place?!

But who's to say "God" didn't command this woman to sacrifice her children, too? Only she can know that.

As long as churches are teaching that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son confers "righteousness" on him, there will be the possibility of emulation among their followers, particularly the mentally ill.
Honestly, I have no idea why this story would be preached in the first place. It is the ultimate test of obedience and blind devotion. It is also an absurd test for an omnipotent god to perform. It tells us nothing about how we should behave, as god doesn't ask people to do things any more.

The story is taught as an example of faith.

It is preached and tolerated because the preacher is very careful to place the story in the context of ancient history and tribal goat herders. If any preacher thought to bring this story to the present time with a modern Abraham and Isaac, his audience would immediately recoil at the sickness of this story.
 

Tom Sawyer

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The story is taught as an example of faith.

It is preached and tolerated because the preacher is very careful to place the story in the context of ancient history and tribal goat herders. If any preacher thought to bring this story to the present time with a modern Abraham and Isaac, his audience would immediately recoil at the sickness of this story.

Ah, there's that timeless and eternal objective moral code that we all love about the Bible. Blessed be.
 

fta

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Who was Abraham? An insane barbarian patriarch who married his sister, denied his wife, and seduced her handmaid; who drove one child into the desert to starve, and made preparations to butcher the other. -- John Remsburg, The Bible

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPPEIDHaioU[/YOUTUBE]
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Except God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham didn't just do it out of the blue and God told him to stop.

What an utter gut wrenchingly needless tragedy! You need to be very sick to drown a toddler. The suicide note makes absolutely no sense. And why was this women raising children who weren't hers in the first place?!

But who's to say "God" didn't command this woman to sacrifice her children, too? Only she can know that.

As long as churches are teaching that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son confers "righteousness" on him, there will be the possibility of emulation among their followers, particularly the mentally ill.
Honestly, I have no idea why this story would be preached in the first place. It is the ultimate test of obedience and blind devotion. It is also an absurd test for an omnipotent god to perform. It tells us nothing about how we should behave, as god doesn't ask people to do things any more.
The story is taught as an example of faith.
But it isn't about faith, but rather obedience. Faith would be Abraham knowing that God wouldn't make him kill his own son. This story is about how Abraham, without hesitation, would have killed his only* son.

But I digress, as you are probably just explaining why it is taught, regardless how wrong the preacher's point actually is.

* - not only
 
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