Would you join Satan and 1/3 of the angels?

[ideologyhunter]

I'm leaning toward Satan 'cause I think the costumes would be kick-ass & I prefer his standup to God's (or Dane Cook's, for what it's worth.) Also Satan might know a sneaky way to mess god up, an Achille's nutsack, if you will. (There are preserved organs of 22 dead popes in the Church of Saints Vincent and Anastasius -- what if you could squeeze a pope's pancreas on god, just like squeezing a lemon? Or hurl pope testicles at him, like little powerful papal splooge grenades? Who can even predict what would happen?)

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'm leaning toward Satan 'cause I think the costumes would be kick-ass & I prefer his standup to God's.

Oh, wait. He said 'join with' Satan and his posse.
I was thinking who would volunteer to be 'subject to' Satan and the eternal fire...
That changes everything.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm leaning toward Satan 'cause I think the costumes would be kick-ass & I prefer his standup to God's.

Oh, wait. He said 'join with' Satan and his posse.
I was thinking who would volunteer to be 'subject to' Satan and the eternal fire...
That changes everything.

Well, that's the thing about aligning yourself with the forces of darkness - they're going to screw you. Satan may talk a good game about how you're partners and fighting against oppression and all that, but the minute he gets the upper hand and doesn't need you anymore, he will knife you in the back and kick you into a pit of hellfire for shits and giggles.

You don't get to be the number two guy for an evil tyrant like God by being a decent and upstanding individual.

 

[Zeluvia]

Suck up to both, then backstab Satan and take the Number 2 spot. I think that is what Gabriel did : )

 

[dockeen]

I'm leaning toward Satan 'cause I think the costumes would be kick-ass & I prefer his standup to God's.

Oh, wait. He said 'join with' Satan and his posse.
I was thinking who would volunteer to be 'subject to' Satan and the eternal fire...
That changes everything.

Well, that's the thing about aligning yourself with the forces of darkness - they're going to screw you. Satan may talk a good game about how you're partners and fighting against oppression and all that, but the minute he gets the upper hand and doesn't need you anymore, he will knife you in the back and kick you into a pit of hellfire for shits and giggles.

You don't get to be the number two guy for an evil tyrant like God by being a decent and upstanding individual.

Love that last paragraph. Would rep you for it, but too soon after last rep...

 

[aeebee50]

That would be a NO.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Even if the best things I've heard about Satan are true, that would not mean Satan is good - I'm not counting the claim that Satan is morally good while the description in non-moral terms shows otherwise or is at least silent, since I'm engaging in moral reasoning.

Moreover, the information about Yahweh is based on the Bible, and if that document is reliable about Yahweh, chances are some of the things about Satan are true as well, and those are mostly not good.

So, I would not be inclined to join Satan. If I were to take a stance against Yahweh and try to oppose him (with words, I guess), I would rather do it on my own, since the chances of success are zero regardless of whether I join Satan or not, and I prefer not to risk joining a potentially very bad guy.

Now, would I go up against Yahweh?
I have no weapons that might hurt him, so I could only denounce his evilness publicly - that is, continue denouncing it, as I already do even if he does not exist.

If I do that, I will spend eternity in Hell, punished by Yahweh.
But if I don't and shut up, I will spend eternity in Hell, since Yahweh knows my thoughts and knows I believe (I know, but apparently he does not know that) that he is a moral monster.

It is not the case that I have the freedom to accept Yahweh. I have the freedom to falsely claim that I accept Yahweh. But I cannot make myself believe that he's not a moral monster. So, it seems that I get punished either way.

Maybe I would try to make a deal with Yahweh: if he destroys me instead of torturing me forever, I will not expose his evilness. But I do not know whether such a monster would be amenable to making such a deal. He may well believe his own BS.

Tough choice. It seems that regardless of what I do, I will be tortured forever by the evil monster Yahweh. Maybe the issue is to find the course of action that gives me the best (even if ridiculously low) chances. But it's difficult to make that assessment.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Maybe I would try to make a deal with Yahweh: if he destroys me instead of torturing me forever, I will not expose his evilness.

Umm ... dude. You kind of just exposed him right there. You threw away your only bargaining chip.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you are pretty much the worst blackmailer in the entire history of forever. Your entire strategy consisted of keeping a secret and the first thing you did was to go and tell everybody this secret. On behalf of all the people working with Satan ... we really can't use you.

 

[Sheshbazzar]

My view? Poor old Yahweh. Once he was just a 'regular guy', with not even a half-bad reputation among the Sumarians and Babylonians for centuries as the sons of El go.
Everyone kind of liked him, although he was like an uncle one has heard stories about, but never actually met.

But then it came to be that this rabble of primitive Hebrew goat herders in the hills happened to hear of his name, and thought it was really cool, because in their native tongue it was the verb for 'to cause to be'.
Well quite naturally they began to blame poor old Yahweh for whatever shit went down or they managed to get themselves mired in. They ended up making up all kinds of lame-ass stories about what 'Yahweh' allegedly said and did.

Poor old Yahweh, like Kaw-Liga (that poor old wooden Indian) had never said nor did a single fucking thing, while these ass hat jew shamans made up a whole bunch of stupid shit that tarnished his reputation and his good name, and called it the Tanakh.
People all over the world are still making up shit about Yahweh, and he still hasn't said a word or done a single fucking thing, and never will.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Nah, I didn't throw it away in that post. I I already exposed him, so if you don't construe the bargain as a bargain involving future actions, it was already gone. Nothing is lost now that wasn't lost already.

Also, that was not my entire strategy. It was one of the possibilities that I was considering, but I definitely did not choose any of them.

But let's make the potential bargain more precise: the difference would be between fighting him by explaining to other people that he is evil (in the future; the deail is no retroactive), or just leave him alone. But I suspect he woudn't go for it. He can just shut me up forcibly, for example. Or just let me spread the word, and then torture those who come to realize that he's evil. In fact, maybe that course of action would be immoral. What if other people end up going to Hell because I persuade them?

 

[DBT]

Regarding some Christian beliefs on the nature of the rebellion: if it was merely Pride that drove Lucifer - the brightest Angel of Gods Creation - is it logical that a full third of the host of Angels fail to understand that as it was nothing more than the Pride of Lucifer that was the driver of rebellion, and that this alone is not a good reason for them to rebel? But then, perhaps gross naivety is supposed to be a feature of the personality of Angels...

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

And Why Should We Brothers?

Aritzmendi the angel leaned forward on his paws. "We would just be replacing one tyrant with another, one Ialdabaoth with one would-be Ialdabaoth, a wolf with a jackal, a master who whips us with a bull whip with a master who would whip us with a horse whip. No, If we rise, when we rise, we should rise for freedom. We should rise for equality, for an end to masters and slaves, for the rights of all spirits, celestial and mortal. We must rise, rise to make an end of all kingdoms. We must rise to make Heaven a republic, governed not by a petty god with a fragile ego, governed not by a prideful envious angel, but governed by all its inhabitants. We must rise to make us all free, to turn us from subjects to citizens, free for all time.

And we will rise, we will rise to make ourselves people, not livestock. We will rise to make Heaven a People's Republic that will shine with freedom and equality forever. We will not revolt, no, no. We will make a Revolution!"

Eldarion Lathria

 

[sdelsolray]

Say the worst things you've heard about God are true and the best things you've heard about Satan are true. If Satan rebelled against God and as an angel you knew the eventual penalty would be eternal torment would you continue worshipping and serving God or would you join Satan? So in this example the existence of God is a fact.

BTW I think to join Satan based on moral reasoning would involve a greater sacrifice than what Jesus made. After all Jesus only suffered for a few days at the most and it resulted in a permanent difference to the world but you'd be suffering for an eternity to make a temporary difference.

Of course, there is a third choice --- no association with either of them.

 

[dockeen]

Say the worst things you've heard about God are true and the best things you've heard about Satan are true. If Satan rebelled against God and as an angel you knew the eventual penalty would be eternal torment would you continue worshipping and serving God or would you join Satan? So in this example the existence of God is a fact.

BTW I think to join Satan based on moral reasoning would involve a greater sacrifice than what Jesus made. After all Jesus only suffered for a few days at the most and it resulted in a permanent difference to the world but you'd be suffering for an eternity to make a temporary difference.

Of course, there is a third choice --- no association with either of them.

Which means that whoever "wins" will see you as disloyal, so you lose either way.

 

[Bronzeage]

Say the worst things you've heard about God are true and the best things you've heard about Satan are true. If Satan rebelled against God and as an angel you knew the eventual penalty would be eternal torment would you continue worshipping and serving God or would you join Satan? So in this example the existence of God is a fact.

BTW I think to join Satan based on moral reasoning would involve a greater sacrifice than what Jesus made. After all Jesus only suffered for a few days at the most and it resulted in a permanent difference to the world but you'd be suffering for an eternity to make a temporary difference.

I say I wouldn't, but looking back, it might not be the worst career move I ever made.

 

[sdelsolray]

Say the worst things you've heard about God are true and the best things you've heard about Satan are true. If Satan rebelled against God and as an angel you knew the eventual penalty would be eternal torment would you continue worshipping and serving God or would you join Satan? So in this example the existence of God is a fact.

BTW I think to join Satan based on moral reasoning would involve a greater sacrifice than what Jesus made. After all Jesus only suffered for a few days at the most and it resulted in a permanent difference to the world but you'd be suffering for an eternity to make a temporary difference.

Of course, there is a third choice --- no association with either of them.

Which means that whoever "wins" will see you as disloyal, so you lose either way.

Yeah, fiction is funny like that.