Young people turning to alternative religions and woo-woo

[lpetrich]

Young People Are Choosing Horoscopes and Crystals Over Fundamentalist Religions | David G. McAfee

This is far from a new trend, since "New Age" woo-woo has been around for decades.

From the Los Angeles Times about a "breathwork" practitioner named Lilia. She helps people meditate, it seems.

She’s one of a growing number of young people — largely millennials, though the trend extends to younger Gen Xers, now cresting 40, and down to Gen Z, the oldest of whom are freshly minted college grads — who have turned away from traditional organized religion and are embracing more spiritual beliefs and practices like tarot, astrology, meditation, energy healing and crystals.

And no, they don’t particularly care if you think it’s “woo-woo” or weird. Most millennials claim to not take any of it too seriously themselves. They dabble, they find what they like, they take what works for them and leave the rest. Evoking consternation from buttoned-up outsiders is far from a drawback — it’s a fringe benefit.

“I know this work is weird,” Lilia said of her breathwork practice. “But it makes me feel better and that’s why I keep doing it.”

Author David McAfee commented

Believe it or not, I don’t oppose this. We should be moving away from fundamentalist adherence to ancient dogmas, and more toward this type of relaxed take-what-works-and-drop-the-rest approach. And if you can make yourself feel better without hurting anyone, I say you should go for it.

But I’m also not going to pretend like all these practices are truly beneficial to society, or that they are more effective than a simple sugar pill. In fact, some of these New Age ideas – such as astrology, tarot, and healing crystals – have been debunked many times.

I know someone who used to be a big believer in Tarot cards, but she became a skeptic. She likes collecting Tarot decks for their artwork, so she is something of a cultural Tarotist. She is a Pisces, and she once learned that Pisces people are supposed to be dreamy and mystical or something like that. But she's the opposite.

Back to the LA Times

In more than a dozen interviews for this story with people ranging in age from 18 to their early 40s, a common theme emerged: They were raised with one set of religious beliefs — Catholic, Jewish, Buddhist — but as they became adults, they felt that faith didn’t completely represent who they were or what they believed.

Millennials increasingly identify as “nones” when asked about their religious affiliation, according to a 2017 Pew survey: They are atheist or agnostic, or say they are “spiritual but not religious.”

The description of the book "No Sacred Cows: Investigating Myths, Cults, and the Supernatural" (October 2017):

While belief in religious supernatural claims is waning throughout the West, evidence suggests belief in nonreligious supernatural claims is on the rise. What explains this contradiction? How can a society with a falling belief in God have a rising belief in ghosts, psychic powers, ancient astronauts, and other supernatural or pseudo-scientific phenomena? Taking the same anthropological approach he employed in his notable studies of religion, atheist author and activist David G. McAfee turns his attention to nonreligious faith-based claims. Whether going undercover as a medium, getting tested at Scientology headquarters in Los Angeles, or interviewing celebrity paranormalists and famous skeptics, he leaves no stone unturned in his investigation. As in the case of religion, he finds an unwillingness among “believers” to critically examine their most closely held convictions. Only once individuals honestly assess their own sacred cows will they be able to ensure that their beliefs conform to the known facts—and that our decisions as a society are based on the best available evidence.

 

[Tammuz]

If I'm permitted to speculate...

Since about the end of World War 2, religion has been on decline in the Western world. This correlated with a massive increases in income, urbanization, various counter-culture movements and so on in the post-war decades. In the 90s and 00s, this continued in the sense that computers and the Internet became affordable to larger segments of the population. As a result, people became more individualistic, and the the historic way of religions, with holy texts, dogmas, certain rituals, etc, didn't really fit the new generations. So they to a significant extent left traditional religion behind, often in practice, not as often in name (think of all the nominal members of religious congregations).

However, very few people have been taught, or learned, how to think skeptically. So while traditional religion has faded to a large extent, the predisposition for irrational thinking is still largely intact. We don't live in societies populated by critical thinkers, I don't think any such society exists. So while these people might reject traditional religion, they can easily be taken in by various New Age spirituality nonsense. It probably very much appeals to them that it has no dogmas, they can pick and choose what they want to believe.

I have met quite a few people here in Sweden who aren't religious, but believe in fate, astrology, alternative medicine, the benefits of organic farming, opposing nuclear power, etc.

My speculation is probably simplified, but I think something alone those lines is the case.

 

[fast]

And we’re taught at a young age to think for ourselves. See what happens when people think on their own without proper supervision? They grow into adults proud of their freedom to think and choose behavior in accordance to their thoughts. And we wonder how pet rocks ever became a thing!

 

[ideologyhunter]

I once took a road trip with a woman who was into crystals. My initial attitude was rrright. She had a little cloth bag with a drawstring that contained her crystals. Before setting off in the morning, she would set them out on the little round standard-issue motel table and do her meditation, with the morning sun hitting the crystals. We had an unspoken agreement that we wouldn't discuss THE CRYSTALS. It was like an unacknowledged fart. It was the right decision, too -- I don't regret missing the big speech on the power of THE CRYSTALS. End of trip, my attitude was rrrrrighttt.

Aftermath, 25 years later: she's a Lutheran minister.

 

[ruby sparks]

Healing Crystals and How to Shoplift Them
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/healing-crystals-and-how-to-shoplift-them

"Lapis lazuli is associated with clarity, self-expression, and honesty. Hold this blue stone in your open palm. Walk up to the salesperson and announce, from your newly unblocked throat chakra, “I am stealing this.” Leave the store at a brisk jog."

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't think it's just younger people. When one of my sisters left Christianity, she started believing in all kinds of weird woo, like dusting the house with certain herbs would keep away evil spirits, and certain scents have the power to help you sleep. etc. She was about 50 when she took on those beliefs.

My next door neighbors is in her 70s and she told me yesterday, that despite being raised in a Southern Baptist home, she now considered herself just "spiritual". She said that wolves have a spiritual connection with us, something related to her having a Native American relative.

I guess some people need a little woo in their lives or their not happy.

 

[Tammuz]

Magical thinking has always been with us, either in the form of traditional religion, or in the form of spirituality/New Age.

 

[lpetrich]

The Rise of Progressive Occultism - The American Interest - "Or why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez felt compelled to share her birth chart."

Back in March 2019, an elected government representative shared something personal about her spiritual identity. Not a preferred Bible verse or a conversion story. Rather, progressive New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez shared her birth-time with a self-described psychic and astrologer, Arthur Lipp-Bonewits, who in turn shared her entire birth chart with what can only be described as Astrology Twitter.

AOC astrology: astrologers tracked Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s birth chart - Vox - obtained from an AOC staffer.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's latest controversy is her astrology chart - some people claim that she lied about it just to get a nicer-looking birth chart.

Her birthplace: Bronx, New York City. Her date and time of birth: 11:50 am, October 13, 1989.

Hillary Clinton, however, has been diffident about whether she was born on 8 am or 8 pm, and to astrologers, that makes a LOT of difference.

AOC was born a day after me, so she and I provide a good test of Sun-Sign astrology. I'll use the Big Five model of personality, like the MBTI but better-supported. I've taken tests for myself and I'll guess for her from how she acts.

• Openness: Me: high, AOC: high
• Conscientiousness: Me: high, AOC: high
• Extroversion: Me: rock bottom, AOC: high
• Agreeableness: Me: medium, AOC: high
• Neuroticism: Me: low, AOC: low?

So she and I are fairly close in personality, except that she's much more extroverted than I am.

 

[lpetrich]

Inside the Bizarre Astrological Drama over Hillary Clinton's Birth Chart - VICE - about the big difference between 8 am and 8 pm for her.

Back to The Rise of Progressive Occultism - The American Interest

For an increasing number of left-leaning millennials—more and more of whom do not belong to any organized religion—occult spirituality isn’t just a form of personal practice, self-care with more sage. Rather, it’s a metaphysical canvas for the American culture wars in the post-Trump era: pitting the self-identified Davids of seemingly secular progressivism against the Goliath of nationalist evangelical Christianity.

...
They have a point. White evangelicals, after all, ushered Donald Trump into the White House. Since 2016, they have been the only religious bloc to consistently support Trump, and Trump has responded in kind, repaying his evangelical base with all-but-unprecedented access to the corridors of power and—no less importantly—with his Administration’s rhetoric.

 

[skepticalbip]

the writer of that article doesn't seem to be aware of who Democrat voters actually are. Sure, millennials are predominately Democrat but they are not the majority of Democrat voters. The two largest Democrat voting blocks, blacks and Hispanics, are also the demographics with the highest level of religious dedication. And then both Catholic and Jewish vote is predominately for Democrats.

People choose political parties for many reasons and I would think that religion is one of the minor reasons.

 

[J842P]

Magical thinking has always been with us, either in the form of traditional religion, or in the form of spirituality/New Age.

I would say that what we call "spirtuality/ New Age" is more of a return to more traditional forms of religion that were overshadowed by the rise in prominence of the major world religions, particularly the Abrahamic faiths.

Interesting that it seems to coincide with the end of the agricultural era.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Magical thinking has always been with us, either in the form of traditional religion, or in the form of spirituality/New Age.

I would say that what we call "spirtuality/ New Age" is more of a return to more traditional forms of religion that were overshadowed by the rise in prominence of the major world religions, particularly the Abrahamic faiths.

Interesting that it seems to coincide with the end of the agricultural era.

Flat earth and moon landing hoaxers would fit into the category of alternative woo, I would think.

Why is the flat earth round and not some kind of asymmetric shape? Why isn't the flat earth square? How does a flat earther know how thick to make the magic disc? Is the thickness unimportant, are flat earthers spatially challenged in their thinking?

 

[lpetrich]

Astrology Birtherism

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's latest controversy is her astrology chart - "Twitter users who care deeply about astrology are convinced that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez faked her birth time for ... a better natal chart."

Arthur Lipp-Bonewits on Twitter: "GUYS I GOT ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ’S BIRTH TIME
11:50AM!
Thank you THANK YOU @AOC and your staff for being willing to share this information! The astrological community thanks you! https://t.co/wbCi8CIZ0G" / Twitter
Presumably local time - she was born October 13, 1989, in the Bronx, New York, New York, USA. Anything larger is shared with the rest of humanity and it thus not distinctive.

It got these responses:

Samuel F. Reynolds on Twitter: "@MissLeoraGreen @lipandbone @AOC I mean, as accurate as anyone ever giving their birth info without even seeing the birth certificate. And even then that's no guarantee since birth certificates can be wrong too, and often are." / Twitter

S.J. Anderson on Twitter: "@sfreynolds @MissLeoraGreen @lipandbone @AOC This. Especially given the rumors of politicians giving false times to throw people off their astro scent. I'm not making any definitive claims about this case, but the fake out possibly is good to remember as one that's plausible." / Twitter

(some more tweets in this vein)

Helike as in Ἑλίκη ⚕ on Twitter: "@_nishades @lipandbone @sfreynolds @LeisaSchaim @sjanderson144 @MissLeoraGreen @AOC It’s more like what she’d lose from the truth. It’s only relatively recently in human history that people stopped using magic and astrology in government and there is a part of my brain that says they did not actually stop." / Twitter

Alex Tsioropoulos on Twitter: "AOC’s birth time is for astrology twitter what Obama’s birth certificate was for Tea Party land https://t.co/K6K55CZ8SC" / Twitter

Vivian on Twitter: "i cannot make this up: there is an actual debate in the comments about whether AOC deliberately lied about her birth time in order to make her birth chart seem more appealing..." / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

What would these astrologers say about AOC if they didn't know who she is? Like give them her birthplace and birth time but say that she is some bartender in a Manhattan taco joint named Lucy Flores. Which AOC was until a year and a half ago.

The Rise of Progressive Occultism - The American Interest

More importantly, however, AOC’s gambit taps into the way in which progressive millennials have appropriated the rhetoric, imagery, and rituals of what was once called the “New Age”—from astrology to witchcraft—as both a political and spiritual statement of identity.

For an increasing number of left-leaning millennials—more and more of whom do not belong to any organized religion—occult spirituality isn’t just a form of personal practice, self-care with more sage. Rather, it’s a metaphysical canvas for the American culture wars in the post-Trump era: pitting the self-identified Davids of seemingly secular progressivism against the Goliath of nationalist evangelical Christianity.

I think that that is reading too much into her action - she may simply have wanted to be helpful.

Inside the Bizarre Astrological Drama over Hillary Clinton's Birth Chart - VICE

For decades, political astrologers have been furiously debating what time Hillary Clinton was born: It could mean the difference between an eminent chart for the former presidential candidate and a "shitty" one.

Was she born on 8 am? Or on 8 pm? Astrologers have argued about that for a long time.

But if 8 am vs. 8 pm makes such a big difference, then Sun Sign astrology is worthless.

 

[lpetrich]

I feel stupid about repeating myself on this subject.

Let's look at the five factors of the Big Five model -  Big Five personality traits

• Extraversion (or Extroversion) vs. Introversion -- outgoing/energetic vs. solitary/reserved
• Openness vs. Closedness to Experience -- inventive/curious vs. consistent/cautious
• Conscientiousness vs. Impulsiveness -- efficient/organized vs. easy-going/careless
• Agreeableness vs. Antagonism -- friendly/compassionate vs. challenging/detached
• Neuroticism or Negative Emotionality vs. Emotional Stability -- sensitive/nervous vs. secure/confident

Extroversion: AOC is very outgoing and energetic. High.

Openness to Experience: AOC is well-read, and she likes art and music. Her office has had copies of the Federalist Papers and a book on climate-change disasters, and also cardboard cutouts of Wonder Woman and Cardi B's head. High.

Conscientiousness: AOC did well in a high-school science project and in college. She helped plan her road trip from NYC to Standing Rock, and she spent two years on nearly nonstop campaigning for a US House of Representatives seat. Once in office, she has distinguished herself with her careful questioning of witnesses in hearings. High.

Agreeableness: AOC is very friendly, and she has shown such compassion as hugging inmates of border camps. However, she is not a doormat. High.

Neuroticism: More difficult to tell from outward behavior, but AOC doesn't seem very glum or anxious or irritable or easily angered. Low?

 

[steve_bank]

It goes far back. Movies in the 30s-40s were filled with the superbatural.

Somerset Mall's book and movie Lost Horizon about a secret valley in the Himalayas where people age slowly. Many other movies. A Brit spends a few months on a mountain in India and comes back with ancient wisdom and insight.

In the 60s we had the British music invasion. We also had the Indian mystic invation. Self proclaimed gurs setting up shop in the USA. The Maharishi and Transcendental Meditation. They used to offer classes in levitation.

Young people rejected mainstream Christian culrture and looked for something else.

As Joseph Camp[bell put it, China was closed to foreigners. That left India as the mysterious other world east.

There is an old Bogart WWII movie where Sydney Greenstreet plays an American infatuated with Japanese culture.

It accelerated in the 60s. The west somehow did not 'get it', while the tumultuous unstable east knew some great secret. The idea the east is somehow better in the face of observation.

 

[rousseau]

Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.

 

[skepticalbip]

Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.

I see that People want understanding and so appeal to magic as a way to answer questions about something we don't understand. It isn't the only method of reaching an understanding but it is much easier than the alternative. So it fits with another human trait... people are lazy.

 

[rousseau]

Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.

I see that People want understanding and an appeal to magic as a way to answer questions about something we don't understand. It isn't the only method of reaching an understanding but it is much easier than the alternative. So it fits with another human trait... people are lazy.

Even more common than laziness is that people stop seeking when they're satisfied with their answer, and often choose the answer that they already want to believe.

Magic and mystery are fun. People not only have no interest in reality, but they deliberately avoid learning about it.

 

[steve_bank]

Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.

Fun is woo of the highest order. One does a ritual like playing a game and somehow it is 'fun'.

I have no idea what fun means. I generally always felt good, even when doing hard difficult work. Can hard work be fun? Other than chess I have never played games, never had a need to for 'fun' as something different from other things.

Fun is like a religion.

BTW, are we having fun yet? Is there a 'fun again experience like born again?

Hope I am not spoiling your fun.