A spectre is haunting Europe ...

[barbos]

Greece is a democracy. They could have voted out the leaders if they weren't doing the will of the people.

And they did just that.

LOL, they sure did.

 

[fromderinside]

An American State is not comparable to a member of the eurozone. For a start, how much money do Florida residents pay to the federal government for various taxes? Imagine if all that money stayed in Florida.

A lot of the Social Security and Medicare taxes were paid when the people lived in other states.

Well there you go a united nation. Great EU example. EU start pumping.

 

[barbos]

Anyhow, I think unless Greece (and the rest of pigs) become more like Germany this common currency will not work.
As for the current debt, I think they need to reduce rate to some low and manageable level and let Greece breeze but at the same time Greece must move toward being fiscally descent country.

People who were lending to Greece should have known the risk of lending at high rate.

 

[fromderinside]

Anyhow, I think unless Greece (and the rest of pigs) become more like Germany this common currency will not work.

Really?

Have you looked at the US movement of government redistritubion spending over the past 60 years?

Where has government money gone? To the south. Where are the lowest wages? In the south. Yet, here we are in 2015 sill a united nation even though the pigs of the south now want us to cut off spending to support those who are in actual need because we've got a debt they fed from.

 

[barbos]

Anyhow, I think unless Greece (and the rest of pigs) become more like Germany this common currency will not work.

Really?

Have you looked at the US movement of government redistritubion spending over the past 60 years?

Where has government money gone? To the south. Where are the lowest wages? In the south. Yet, here we are in 2015 sill a united nation even though the pigs of the south now want us to cut off spending to support those who are in actual need because we've got a debt they fed from.

USA are much more united in terms of laws and fiscal policy than EU.
No US southern state would be able to pull what Greece was able to pull.
When Greece becomes more like Germany they will become as united as USA.

 

[dismal]

Well, they have a debt to GDP cap they agreed to as part of the EU common currency that they are about 3X over.

They also agreed to a series of conditions in conjunction with accepting the bail outs, some of which are described here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-13798000

And here:

The Troika behind the second bailout package defined three requirements for Greece to comply with in order to receive the money. The first requirement was to finalize an agreement whereby all private holders of governmental bonds would accept a 50% haircut with yields reduced to 3.5%, thus facilitating a €100bn debt reduction for Greece. The second requirement was that Greece needed to implement another demanding austerity package in order to bring its budget deficit into sustainable territory. The third and final requirement was that a majority of the Greek politicians should sign an agreement guaranteeing their continued support for the new austerity package, even after the elections in April 2012.[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Economic_Adjustment_Programme_for_Greece

They've fulfilled all three of these haven't they? I mean, granted the same politicians are no longer in office...

I don't think they've done the big one, which is get their debt-to-GDP to the required levels.

- - - Updated - - -

And they did just that.

LOL, they sure did.

Now the trick will be for Greeks to elect some governments in Germany and other EU countries who want to fund their spending.

 

[ksen]

Greece is running a surplus so it sounds like they can fund their own spending.

 

[dismal]

Greece is running a surplus so it sounds like they can fund their own spending.

Yes, it sounds like they can fund their current level of spending. But this thread is about the fact they just elected some asshats who want to spend more.

 

[ksen]

"Surplus" means they can afford to spend a bit more than their current level of spending.

 

[dismal]

"Surplus" means they can afford to spend a bit more than their current level of spending.

Not if they're going to hit their debt paydown targets.

 

[Trausti]

"Surplus" means they can afford to spend a bit more than their current level of spending.

Not if they're going to hit their debt paydown targets.

Silly dismal, being responsible is something only those dull Germans do.

 

[ksen]

"Surplus" means they can afford to spend a bit more than their current level of spending.

Not if they're going to hit their debt paydown targets.

If the debt paydown targets are too onerous and would hurt the greek economy then the new government should be trying to renegotiate those.

 

[barbos]

Is it realistic to pay up 170% GDP debt?

 

[dismal]

Not if they're going to hit their debt paydown targets.

If the debt paydown targets are too onerous and would hurt the greek economy then the new government should be trying to renegotiate those.

They can always try to renegotiate. I think we found our little bit of room to agree.

 

[ksen]

If the debt paydown targets are too onerous and would hurt the greek economy then the new government should be trying to renegotiate those.

They can always try to renegotiate. I think we found our little bit of room to agree.

 

[ksen]

Greece suggests bond swapping instead of haircut

The Greek Finance Minister has unveiled a plan to swap his country's outstanding debt for a special kind of growth-linked bonds. The idea is to win time and get the support of Germany by dropping any talk of a haircut.

Sounds like the new Greek government is trying to work with its creditors in finding some middle ground that will allow Greece room to grow its economy and ease its creditor's worries about default.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Greece suggests bond swapping instead of haircut

The Greek Finance Minister has unveiled a plan to swap his country's outstanding debt for a special kind of growth-linked bonds. The idea is to win time and get the support of Germany by dropping any talk of a haircut.

Sounds like the new Greek government is trying to work with its creditors in finding some middle ground that will allow Greece room to grow its economy and ease its creditor's worries about default.

It's anybody's guess. Are they going to leave the EU, or be thrown out? Most think both sides will play brinkmanship and cut a deal at the last minute, as they've done before. Most Greeks want to remain in the EU.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) Greece is a democracy. They could have voted out the leaders if they weren't doing the will of the people.

2) The main beneficiary of those loans was the average Greek.


Yes, they were hurt badly in the bailout--no surprise, when you run out of credit it's always painful.

The problem seems to be these lender institutions know today they should never have made these loans - apart from the guys who laughed all the way to the bank that is. Greed works in strange ways. Well, actually not so strange. The behavior is quite obvious and predictable actually, unless you're the one presently under its spell. Oh to be a fly on the wall.

I don't think they know anything of the kind. They know they don't like paying the bills, but that doesn't mean the original idea wasn't to borrow and not pay it back.

It's like an addict with his drugs--they got what they wanted now.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Greece is a democracy. They could have voted out the leaders if they weren't doing the will of the people.

And they did just that.

Yeah, they were voted out for not being able to borrow as much as the people wanted. The people still haven't learned their lesson, until they do the situation is only going to get worse.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And they did just that.

Yeah, they were voted out for not being able to borrow as much as the people wanted. The people still haven't learned their lesson, until they do the situation is only going to get worse.

Only so long as there are willing lenders.