Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[Loren Pechtel]

Imagine believing mg on a first date with a woman you find highly attractive. During the course of dinner, you realize you really need to take a dump—office taco Tuesday strikes hard! And when you excuse yourself for the restroom, she says she needs to powder her nose, too!

How comfortable will you be if she checks herself into the stall next to you?

And gays/lesbians somehow manage to avoid being harmed by this??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You people are obsessed with toilets.

No. You are obsessed with who is on toilets.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Urinals only make sense in men-only restrooms.

A variety of devices exist to permit a woman to urinate while standing. They are typically used in outdoor environments but could perfectly well be used at a urinal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well that's not a sensible take.

There's a lot of evidence that boys have an advantage in sports pre-puberty. A confounding factor has been that studies were often done around the transition to secondary school, around the time when the typically earlier puberty in females, masked the difference.

Instead of dismissing something because it doesn't accord with your preconceived notions, you could try doing some proper research.

And by that I mean not just Googling for things that agree with your preconceived notions.

The point is they didn't reference a primary source. In casual use this is irrelevant, but in something like that they should. If the primary isn't online they very well might also include a secondary, but the secondary should not stand alone.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What evidence would satisfy you?

Clearly the testimony of women isn’t sufficient.

What testimony? I don't want testimony of fear, I want testimony of actual harm. And so far the sources presented have been:

1) Lumping together a range of "offenses" which included looking too much. How do you prove that? And when you see a very wide range lumped into a category your first thought should be that the high range of that category doesn't actually support the position.

2) An individual wearing "a skirt". The article even said it didn't appear to be a case of being transgender. And how do you quickly resolve whether a garment is a skirt or a kilt? I own a kilt that I occasionally wear hiking. Look closely enough and you'll see it even identifies itself as being a kilt. I'm not remotely trying to pretend to be female, it's simply the best balance of keeping cool and keeping the sun off.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well that's not a sensible take.

There's a lot of evidence that boys have an advantage in sports pre-puberty.

In the sense that boys are encouraged to even forced to play sports, where as girls... they have to really want to do it, yes, boys are socially encouraged for this. Girls, likely especially the very good ones, can be castigated for daring to play sports well.

And by that I mean not just Googling for things that agree with your preconceived notions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Everyone has a right to safety and dignity. Everyone.

Where it gets tricky is that girls and women are conditioned—for centuries! to fear or at least be suspicious of male appearing bodies, especially in intimate spaces. One of the biggest ways girls and women are/have been so conditioned is through rape, threat of rape, enforced virginity which, if lost, makes you fair game for rape, forced pregnancy and huge amounts of slut shaming. This is an ugly ugly ugly truth designed to cover up the fact that rape is an act of violence and not of lust. This is true no matter who the victim and who the perpetrator. Also to control women and to ensure they don’t ’get out of line.’

That conditioning is the reason that most of the women who object to ( pre-surgical) trans women in women’s restrooms and locker rooms. Of course some are just bigots but the absolute fact is that the unexpected appearance of a naked body in a space where you expect to see only persons whose bodies look like your sex/gender will provoke a fear and/or anger response especially if you have been the victim of sexual assault.

So if I raise my kid to be terrified of blacks it's reasonable for them to be able to demand no blacks in the restroom?

Because the observed threat is zero.

There is no genetic predisposition for a person to be sexually violent if they are black.

Baseline wise, there is a genetic predisposition for a person to be sexually violent against a woman if they are a male. Rates aren't very high for completely random violence, but there is a basis, particularly knowing that a woman either has or knows a woman that has been assaulted in some manner.

So your parallel is not applicable.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So we should allow white women to say they don't want colored in the restroom?

Who is we?
I don't confuse race and sex.
Tom

Nobody's adequately addressed why the cases are different.

Both are based on fear. The observed data is that race has some correlation with hazard, being trans has none.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Only if you accept sufficiently broad definitions of "male" and "female" pathways.

But as soon as you accept a broad definition you are admitting there are differences and thus your binary division doesn't work.

They aren’t broad definitions. Sex is determined at fertilisation as to whether a foetus develops down the Müllerian or Wolffian pathway.

There are only the two pathways.

Pathways, not exactly the same in every case.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

3) The surgical miscorrection of the intersexed shows that there's something in the mind separate from the anatomy. We have not identified it. And since an unknown factor clearly exists I'm left with the conclusion that it must be a mystery even if most cases are easy to resolve.

How on earth does it show that?

How does ethically dubious surgery on infants with ambiguous genitalia tell us anything about the mind?

It tells us the mind doesn't have to follow the anatomy. The best efforts of the doctors frequently got it wrong.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

attack by someone female-presenting but with male genitals in a women's room. Risk = zero. Yet a simple perusal of crime statistics should show you that the risk of a black woman is higher than the risk of a white woman. (Yeah, I know it's socioeconomic, not race. The woman in the restroom can't identify that so it's irrelevant.)

Risk=zero, does it?

Then why the extraordinarily high rate of sexual offending of trans women in prison?

I'm referring to the risk of a trans person in the women's room. We have zero documented offenses.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So if I raise my kid to be terrified of blacks it's reasonable for them to be able to demand no blacks in the restroom?

Because the observed threat is zero.

The observed threat of men in women’s intimate spaces is not zero..

The observed threat of female-presenting "men" in women's spaces is zero.

 

[TomC]

Nobody's adequately addressed why the cases are different.

I had to scroll around for a while to find it, I posted it in #1396.
You're welcome.

Both are based on fear. The observed data is that race has some correlation with hazard, being trans has none.

Difference is that race is just about looks. It's literally skin deep. Sex is very different.
Tom

 

[Bomb#20]

Strobel didn't use the women's room to follow the law but because the men's room sucked.

You missed the part where said individual's ID says "F".

No I didn't. Did you even read the whole article? The ID saying "F" doesn't change the fact that the article said Strobel didn't use the women's room to follow the law but because the men's room sucked. Only the misleading headline said it was to follow the law. Best guess is that the headline writer didn't read the article -- that's a common problem at low-budget publications.

This is exactly what we were warning about: male-presenting individuals in the women's room.

No, it isn't exactly what you were warning about. A merely male-presenting woman such as your SIL wouldn't have asked an employee for permission to use a ladies' room. Strobel was de facto announcing that there was a man in the women's room.

 

[Bomb#20]

So we should allow white women to say they don't want colored in the restroom?

Who is we?
I don't confuse race and sex.
Tom

Nobody's adequately addressed why the cases are different.

Both are based on fear. The observed data is that race has some correlation with hazard, being trans has none.

Oh for the love of god! Who says being trans has correlation with hazard? Being male has correlation with hazard!

 

[seanie]

Thinking of the consequences is forbidden in conservative circles.

Who are you describing as conservative?

My liberal/left, gender non-conforming, butch, lesbian daughter?

 

[seanie]

You people are obsessed with toilets.

No. You are obsessed with who is on toilets.

Not at all.

I’ve repeatedly said public toilets are probably the least important issue, in large measure because they aren’t policed and operate on the basis of a social contract.

Prisons, sports, workplace changing rooms, refuges, rape crisis centres?

They’re different, because they aren’t policed managed.

 

[seanie]

And some men really, really think they're sexually attracted to men when we all know they're mistaken, that Satan is deceiving them, that they are choosing to be perverts, and really, Alan Turing did the only decent thing when he killed himself.

Huh?

How do “we all know” that same sex attracted people are mistaken?

What criteria would you use to determine that?

Read it again. She is quite clearly speaking the opposite of truth to make a point.

Yeah, I understood the point that was trying to be made.

I was exploring how poor it was as an analogy.

 

[seanie]

Except the observed threat level is zero. Pretty hard for zero to be more.

Karen White, Katie Dolatowski, Barbie Kardashian.,,

 

[seanie]

So if I raise my kid to be terrified of blacks it's reasonable for them to be able to demand no blacks in the restroom?

Because the observed threat is zero.

So then your argument is in favour of no segregation at all between women and men. Unisex provision at all times.

How does that work in sports?

And how will trans women get validation?