For those of you who think MAGA Trump supporters are in a cult

[Mech Bliss]

It's amazing using Musk and Carlson as examples here. "Criticizing their leader?" That implies they are followers, and clearly they are instead relatively powerful opportunists.

Musk and Trump just recently had a very public breakup full of tantrums from both sides. And if anything, part of the resurgence of the Epstein controversy is due to Musk's prodding Trump in the aftermath.

As for Carlson, how can we forget what his real feelings about Trump are/were given the texts revealed during the Dominion defamation lawsuit:

In a text exchange with an unknown person on Jan. 4, 2021, Carlson expressed anger toward Trump. He said that “we are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights” and that “I truly can’t wait.”

[...]

Addressing Trump’s four years as president, Carlson said: “We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There really isn’t an upside to Trump.”

[,,,]

Later, Carlson writes of Trump: “He’s a demonic force, a destroyer. But he’s not going to destroy us. I’ve been thinking about this every day for four years.”

Source: https://apnews.com/article/tucker-c...awsuit-trump-5d6aed4bc7eb1f7a01702ebea86f37a1

 

[Ford]

RVonse is strangely silent after starting this thread.

New Orders from Dear Leader I suppose.

The question of "is this really a cult?" aside, I'm reminded of something that a lot of pundits seem to be missing in all of this...

Government secrets are notoriously hard to keep, and approach impossibility the more people know about them. It is worth noting that the scandal which almost brought down the last sitting President to be impeached was originally limited to exactly two people. Yes, a lot of people knew Bill Clinton was a horn dog, but the encounter that led to the infamous "stain on the blue dress" and the wagging finger was only known to President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. Just those two.

And look what happened there.

Trump is trying to clamp down on this by ordering his minions to not talk about it, but the proverbial cat is out of the bag.

 

[Swammerdami]

Was early Christianity a cult"? Much of the New Testament deals specifically with the antipathy between Paul and the Jerusalem church; Paul is very critical of Simon Peter (Cephas) and especially James. Rivalries developed among the earliest disciples. Here's Barnabas, one of Paul's top lieutenants (and NOT a follower of the Jerusalem church) splitting from Paul within 20 years or so of Jesus' death:

Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord.

Although Paul acknowledges that James is Jesus' brother, he vituperates against him repeatedly: "Satan's servant", etc. It took the destruction of Jerusalem for Paul to (posthumously) become spokesman for the cult. Yet most here would agree that Christianity started as, and remains, a cult.

Later the Catholic-Cathar wars were more brutal than the anti-Islam crusades.

Perhaps the Kool-Aid drinkers at Jonestown, are an example of the sort of cult you mean, though IIRC even some of those cultists hesitated before drinking. The Trump cult has many equivalents to Kool-Aid. Do you know ANY Trumpists who disagree that the J6 insurrectionists were "fine patriots" or "tourists"?

And always keep in mind that the major leaders of the Trumplickers -- Roger Ailes, Sheldon Adelson, Steve Bannon, Elon Musk and even Fucker Carlson -- are NOT cultists: They just try to ride the bronco and manipulate its puppet strings. Most GOP Senators aren't true Trumplickers at all; they just hang on to the train out of fear or greed.

You can not be a cult if you are not devoted to your leader. It is the platform he ran on that they were and are still devoted to.

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

I'd like to see polls with CLEAR questions:

"Trump is praying to God for advice on the Epstein files. Do you think Trump will make the best decision?"​

This question would get an overwhelming 'Yes' from the MAGGOT crowd.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Was early Christianity a cult"?

Yes, Matthew 1 pretty much is defending against that accusation.

You can not be a cult if you are not devoted to your leader. It is the platform he ran on that they were and are still devoted to.

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

The demand to release the Epstein files is largely MAGA driven. They want stuff released that some in the Trump Admin says exists. We don't even know what exists. The Trump folks fanned the Epstein flames and are now trying to walk it back.

MAGA allies could be walking it back to provide cover over the fact there is nothing to actually release and now that they used it for political purposes, they are done with it. Or they could be protecting Trump, who has incriminating evidence of him in the file. It could be both, it could be neither as well. MAGA isn't particularly principled.

 

[laughing dog]

Was early Christianity a cult"?

Yes, Matthew 1 pretty much is defending against that accusation.

You can not be a cult if you are not devoted to your leader. It is the platform he ran on that they were and are still devoted to.

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

The demand to release the Epstein files is largely MAGA driven. They want stuff released that some in the Trump Admin says exists. We don't even know what exists. The Trump folks fanned the Epstein flames and are now trying to walk it back.

MAGA allies could be walking it back to provide cover over the fact there is nothing to actually release and now that they used it for political purposes, they are done with it. Or they could be protecting Trump, who has incriminating evidence of him in the file. It could be both, it could be neither as well. MAGA isn't particularly principled.

If there really is nothing in the files, then there is no reason to keep it secret. The fact that people are advocating secrecy leads to the rational conclusion that there is something to hide.

MAGA has shot itself in the foot on this one. And, I fucking love it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Was early Christianity a cult"?

Yes, Matthew 1 pretty much is defending against that accusation.

You can not be a cult if you are not devoted to your leader. It is the platform he ran on that they were and are still devoted to.

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

The demand to release the Epstein files is largely MAGA driven. They want stuff released that some in the Trump Admin says exists. We don't even know what exists. The Trump folks fanned the Epstein flames and are now trying to walk it back.

MAGA allies could be walking it back to provide cover over the fact there is nothing to actually release and now that they used it for political purposes, they are done with it. Or they could be protecting Trump, who has incriminating evidence of him in the file. It could be both, it could be neither as well. MAGA isn't particularly principled.

If there really is nothing in the files, then there is no reason to keep it secret. The fact that people are advocating secrecy leads to the rational conclusion that there is something to hide.

There could be information for victims in the documents that could be legit issues in releasing. Now, this Administration might not be competent enough to know that though, however, there is likely a couple qualified people that haven't been fired yet.

MAGA has shot itself in the foot on this one. And, I fucking love it.

I'll start laughing if something actually comes of all of this. The trouble is MAGA isn't principled and it can swing at a moments notice.

 

[Jarhyn]

Reposted from reddit:

Here are all of the Epstein Files that have either been leaked or released.

https://joshwho.net/EpsteinList/gov.uscourts.nysd.447706.1320.0-combined.pdf (verified court documents)

https://joshwho.net/EpsteinList/black-book-unredacted.pdf (verified pre-Bondi) Trump is on page 85, or pdf pg. 80

Trump’s name is circled. The circled individuals are the ones involved in the trafficking ring according to the person who originally released the book. These people would be “The List“. Here is the story:



Here's the flight logs: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21165424-epstein-flight-logs-released-in-usa-vs-maxwell/

—————————other Epstein Information

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf here’s a court doc of Epstein and Trump raping a 13 yr old together.

Some people think this claim is a hoax. Here is Katie's testimony on youtube:

—————————other Trump information:

Here's trump admitting to peeping on 14-15 year old girls at around 1:40 on the Howard Stern Radio Show:

Trump's promise to his daughter: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-ivanka-trump-dating-promise_n_57ee98cbe4b024a52d2ead02 “I have a deal with her. She’s 17 and doing great ― Ivanka. She made me promise, swear to her that I would never date a girl younger than her,” Trump said. “So as she grows older, the field is getting very limited.”

Trump's modeling agency was allegedly part of Jeffreys pipeline: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/donald-trump-model-management-illegal-immigration

 

[Colonel Sanders]

The use of the word/term "cult" is mostly inappropriate here. In a cult, non-leadership members are personally punished for criticizing leadership by any number of means including being ostracized. MAGA voters can just not vote for Trump with no consequences to themselves or those they care about. Then they can change their minds and love him again.

This isn't that deep. Most MAGA voters are misinformed anti-intellectuals who used to be people that didn't vote.

OTOH, my sister wanted my dead to be buried with a Trump medallion in his coffin, so that was fucking weird and cult-like. But I find that more akin to those who so ardently supported men like Hitler and Mussolini. That is, it's mindless dedication to a political movement.

Finally, my parents put me in a cult when I was 17. There was no choice, no criticism, no leaving. Dissent brought immediate and personal punishment, both psychological and physical. It also brought repudiation from the group. You were still in, but out at the same time. Some cults will throw a member right the fuck out, others will work to keep them in, so certainly, cult behavior isn't just one thing.

Trump voters face no such consequences.

ETA: this Epstein thing will be out of the news cycle by next week and the U.S. will return to its state of blithering psychosis.

 

[RVonse]

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

I'd like to see polls with CLEAR questions:

"Trump is praying to God for advice on the Epstein files. Do you think Trump will make the best decision?"​

This question would get an overwhelming 'Yes' from the MAGGOT crowd.

I think it is a very curious situation to say the least. My first gut reaction is that Trump should just release the Epstein files as he ran his campaign on. But then I have heard others make a good case that releasing these files might have catastrophic consequences to both the US and the rest of the world. For example, what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war? That would clearly not be worth it and only Trump (as commander in chief) would know this.

I do feel Trump owes all of us a better excuse for the obvious lying we see today though. Either tell us the files can't be released for national security reasons or that Israel doesn't want them released. Because the public has a right to know that sex crimes will not normally go unpunished just because you are rich or famous.

 

[laughing dog]

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

I'd like to see polls with CLEAR questions:

"Trump is praying to God for advice on the Epstein files. Do you think Trump will make the best decision?"​

This question would get an overwhelming 'Yes' from the MAGGOT crowd.

I think it is a very curious situation to say the least. My first gut reaction is that Trump should just release the Epstein files as he ran his campaign on. But then I have heard others make a good case that releasing these files might have catastrophic consequences to both the US and the rest of the world. For example, what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war? That would clearly not be worth it and only Trump (as commander in chief) would know this.

A cult member would trust the judgment of Trump, but no one else has reason to. I don’t see how releasing the files would mean nuclear war. And if it means bringing down the US gov’t ( which would require massive resignations - an unlikely outcome), then good.

 

[Swammerdami]

Trump is calling his fellow child rapists "party" goers: "We can redact you out, Bill. What's it worth to you?" That may be part of the reason for the delay; Trump is seeing what the market will bear for yet another grift.

The chance that the files will appear with UNREDACTED mentions of Trump are nil.

 

[laughing dog]

Trump is calling his fellow child rapists "party" goers: "We can redact you out, Bill. What's it worth to you?" That may be part of the reason for the delay; Trump is seeing what the market will bear for yet another grift.

The chance that the files will appear with UNREDACTED mentions of Trump are nil.

Which makes a conspiracy seem even more likely.

 

[Patooka]

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

I'd like to see polls with CLEAR questions:

"Trump is praying to God for advice on the Epstein files. Do you think Trump will make the best decision?"​

This question would get an overwhelming 'Yes' from the MAGGOT crowd.

I think it is a very curious situation to say the least. My first gut reaction is that Trump should just release the Epstein files as he ran his campaign on. But then I have heard others make a good case that releasing these files might have catastrophic consequences to both the US and the rest of the world. For example, what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war? That would clearly not be worth it and only Trump (as commander in chief) would know this.

I do feel Trump owes all of us a better excuse for the obvious lying we see today though. Either tell us the files can't be released for national security reasons or that Israel doesn't want them released. Because the public has a right to know that sex crimes will not normally go unpunished just because you are rich or famous.

Trust me, no one is buying your stupid bullshit. We are done with your lies.

 

[ZiprHead]

If Trump had just done what an ethical president should have done and said "That's none of my business. That's the DOJ's decision." he wouldn't be in this situation.

 

[ZiprHead]

Was early Christianity a cult"? Much of the New Testament deals specifically with the antipathy between Paul and the Jerusalem church; Paul is very critical of Simon Peter (Cephas) and especially James. Rivalries developed among the earliest disciples. Here's Barnabas, one of Paul's top lieutenants (and NOT a follower of the Jerusalem church) splitting from Paul within 20 years or so of Jesus' death:

Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord.

Although Paul acknowledges that James is Jesus' brother, he vituperates against him repeatedly: "Satan's servant", etc. It took the destruction of Jerusalem for Paul to (posthumously) become spokesman for the cult. Yet most here would agree that Christianity started as, and remains, a cult.

Later the Catholic-Cathar wars were more brutal than the anti-Islam crusades.

Perhaps the Kool-Aid drinkers at Jonestown, are an example of the sort of cult you mean, though IIRC even some of those cultists hesitated before drinking. The Trump cult has many equivalents to Kool-Aid. Do you know ANY Trumpists who disagree that the J6 insurrectionists were "fine patriots" or "tourists"?

And always keep in mind that the major leaders of the Trumplickers -- Roger Ailes, Sheldon Adelson, Steve Bannon, Elon Musk and even Fucker Carlson -- are NOT cultists: They just try to ride the bronco and manipulate its puppet strings. Most GOP Senators aren't true Trumplickers at all; they just hang on to the train out of fear or greed.

You can not be a cult if you are not devoted to your leader. It is the platform he ran on that they were and are still devoted to.

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

I'd like to see polls with CLEAR questions:

"Trump is praying to God for advice on the Epstein files. Do you think Trump will make the best decision?"​

This question would get an overwhelming 'Yes' from the MAGGOT crowd.

Derail: I have always wondered if the names in the Bible hadn't been anglicized would the religion have spread so well?

 

[ZiprHead]

what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war?

 

[Jarhyn]

For example, what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war

Then we fucking deserve our coming extinction event.

Every last one of those people needs to be treated exactly as you would a "knowing trafficker of children, aware of the consequences and damages and who did it anyway."

Every last trafficker of children.

Have a spine. Believe in something.

None of the evidence I shared is new.

It is years old.

There is every reason to believe that the impending Epstein situation was exactly the reason for the PizzaGate conspiracy, because someone really was trafficking children, and it turns out that person was Trump, and it's been known, of covered up by the media, for a long time.

This is not "crackpot". It is reasoned, level, and sane to recognize a conspiracy has occurred and it occurred around a crime so vile that the very vileness of the crime is what kept people silent, and still it was fairly open knowledge. There is actual evidence, testimony, missing video footage, and lots and lots of pictures of Trump with Epstein and involvement with Barr.

This is serious business.

Then, last I knew Fox News was openly supporting the use of the word Nazi for people to self-identify with.

Fox News’ Greg Gutfeld Sparks Outrage With Comments About Nazis and ‘The Blacks’ - IMDb

IMDb, the world's most popular and authoritative source for movie, TV and celebrity content.

m.imdb.com

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It sounds like you're describing yourself rather than Trump cultists more generally. Do you support release of the Epstein files? How about if you knew that Elon Musk would be incriminated, and those incriminations would NOT be among the redactions?

I'd like to see polls with CLEAR questions:

"Trump is praying to God for advice on the Epstein files. Do you think Trump will make the best decision?"​

This question would get an overwhelming 'Yes' from the MAGGOT crowd.

I think it is a very curious situation to say the least. My first gut reaction is that Trump should just release the Epstein files as he ran his campaign on. But then I have heard others make a good case that releasing these files might have catastrophic consequences to both the US and the rest of the world. For example, what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war? That would clearly not be worth it and only Trump (as commander in chief) would know this.

I do feel Trump owes all of us a better excuse for the obvious lying we see today though. Either tell us the files can't be released for national security reasons or that Israel doesn't want them released. Because the public has a right to know that sex crimes will not normally go unpunished just because you are rich or famous.

You're out in loony territory here.

What's supposed to be the scenario for bringing down the government or for causing a nuclear war???

Bring down the GOP? Might very well happen. But that's why we have a defined line of succession.

And what reason do you have to think that Israel cares? That's just garbage to make you baa for a pedo.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

None of the evidence I shared is new.

It is years old.

Which is why I don't think there's anything more than we've seen. It seems unlikely that Epstein had no insurance policy, but with nothing new I'm left with the conclusion that either he didn't, it's encrypted w/o key, or it was destroyed at the time.

There is every reason to believe that the impending Epstein situation was exactly the reason for the PizzaGate conspiracy, because someone really was trafficking children, and it turns out that person was Trump, and it's been known, of covered up by the media, for a long time.

Huh? Pizzagate was because a loon fell for disinformation. Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on. Distraction from real events, or simply stirring up hated with no bit of truth behind it?

It's pretty obvious The Felon is a pedo. The problem is such people are good at preying on those who aren't in a position to defend themselves. And likely with enough of their own misdeeds that their testimony is taken with question.

 

[Jarhyn]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.