Noah’s Ark Found!!

[southernhybrid]

No. Materials have certain properties, and no matter who does the design, one cannot make the structure stronger than the materials allow.

That's funny, I agree with the above and say the same thing. We may disagree with where the limits lay.

Unless you want to go all the way of "it was a miracle" - in which case you could as well claim that the ark was made of folded newspapers and miraculously stayed together and afloat.

This is very much the same argument error as the previous above, : "We could as well have claimed the ark was made of folded paper.etc.." , would only be seen that way to you, and since that line is a nonexistent theist claim, then obviously ...theists don't use your example to analogously demonstrate the ark argument the way you do, or think it can.

Are you a Biblical literalist Learner? Hopefully not as it always amazes me when anyone still believes the old myths in the Bible, especially the insane stories in the OT to be literal.

The ark is one of the craziest ones. The dimensions are written in the Bible and there is now way it could hold all animal life, the food needed to feed them for 40 days or the waste matter they would excrete. There were a lot of floods way back in ancient times. Other religious mythology is full of similar stories and symbols that are in the Bible, but anyone with a reasonable mind has to realize these things are all allegories at best, or myths etc.

Plus, how do Biblical literalists justify all the cruelty demonstrated by Bible god, one of the worst monsters ever created? Doesn't all that hate and killing including the Noah's Ark story, help people realize that this god was obviously created by men to resemble men?

I'm so glad that I always had trouble understanding how such an evil god could also be a loving god, even as a fairly young child who was told I must be "saved" by the blood of Christ, and that by the time I was in my late teens I began my journey towards atheism and the truth set me free. Ok. I'm off topic but I just finished the book about Nonsense from the Bible and it still makes me shudder to think so many people still believe this shit, especially the ones who take it literally.

 

[steve_bank]

Learner

I think what we are saying regardless of existence of god the boat would not have been feasible. from basic science. It is not about a refutation of god per se, it is abot a weird belief in a short narrative in an ancient document,

Of course if gotd flooded the Earth for a year he,she, or it could have somehow caused the boat to float.

There were blueprints. Boat budding was more of craft learned from experience along wit trial and error. Before the Great Pyramids there was centuries of trial and error and failed experiments.

Jews were not boat builders as the Greeks, Egyptians, and Romans were.

Your assertion it would have been a superior design above man comes from where? Of curse if you believe in a supernatural god you can clam amd rationalize anything.

As our resident mythologist pointed out Noah is clearly based on the earlier Gilgamesh.

Remember the big Indian Ocean tsunami decades back? In an interview on an island that got flooded a resent he said there was an old cultural myth.

Periodically god flooded the world to cleans it. Part of it said if you observe water receding from the shore head for high ground, which he did.

Natural events in an old non scientific culture attributing disaster to a god. A culture who would see the 'world' as its local region.


Do yu beve Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill were real, or American western 19th century mythology? Kids in my generation grew up with a set of American myths. They reflected cultural values of theday.

Pecos Bill - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Paul Bunyan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Learner]

No. Materials have certain properties, and no matter who does the design, one cannot make the structure stronger than the materials allow.

That's funny, I agree with the above and say the same thing. We may disagree with where the limits lay.

Unless you want to go all the way of "it was a miracle" - in which case you could as well claim that the ark was made of folded newspapers and miraculously stayed together and afloat.

This is very much the same argument error as the previous above, : "We could as well have claimed the ark was made of folded paper.etc.." , would only be seen that way to you, and since that line is a nonexistent theist claim, then obviously ...theists don't use your example to analogously demonstrate the ark argument the way you do, or think it can.

Are you a Biblical literalist Learner? Hopefully not as it always amazes me when anyone still believes the old myths in the Bible, especially the insane stories in the OT to be literal.

The ark is one of the craziest ones. The dimensions are written in the Bible and there is now way it could hold all animal life, the food needed to feed them for 40 days or the waste matter they would excrete. There were a lot of floods way back in ancient times. Other religious mythology is full of similar stories and symbols that are in the Bible, but anyone with a reasonable mind has to realize these things are all allegories at best, or myths etc.

It took me while, but I realised that what I thought used to be a hindrance to me ... difficulty understanding certain concepts ..e.g.
what people told me was in front of me but wasn't matching what I was seeing, so to speak, I realised later,: atheists with the "flood myth" mentality for example,.. lacked a particular type of logic. What we plainly call... Spatial reasoning. You are considerably lacking it.

Spatial reasoning is the cognitive ability to understand, manipulate, and visualize objects and their spatial relationships in two or three dimensions.

Visualising spatial relationships... looking at dimensions and comparing with the nonsense that say the earth has only had local floods:

About 71% of the Earth's surface is covered by water, leaving approximately 29% as land. This water is predominantly saline, with 96.5% of the planet's total water volume held in the oceans.

I trust my visual sense of judgement in this case, over your mental blind spots.


Research indicates that spatial reasoning is not innate but is a trainable skill that can be significantly improved through practice.

Although I would say this is also natural starting at an early age, but yes like detectives they too visualize from the clues given them... which is psychological profiling, and understanding the natural characteristic behaviour of physical clues that results in good estimations of the criminal and his habits etc, & etc.

I could say and add more but my time to focus on the subject is limited.

Plus, how do Biblical literalists justify all the cruelty demonstrated by Bible god, one of the worst monsters ever created? Doesn't all that hate and killing including the Noah's Ark story, help people realize that this god was obviously created by men to resemble men?

The bible describes other nations were very barbaric. They warred against the Israelites.

Do you think the 10 commandments are so evil because,strangely, it commands the Hebrews NOT to do as the other nations do, which you can see prohibited in the commandments?

 

[steve_bank]

Learner are you famili8ar with MC Esher and his optical illusions?


Does your partial reasoning see any problem in the picture?




So by spatial reasoning you lnow the ark existed?

I go by p[physics.

1. How much would two of every critter weigh?
2. How much would food and wataer for 1 year weigh?
3. What is the structural landing?
4. What is te total weight of ship plus load?
5. What is the buoyancy?

Spatial reasoning is one thng. We all learn as we grow up. A sense of scale, proposition, and distance. Actually building a physical rstructure is somersetting else.

The p;problem is visualization and spatial reasoning in the imagination can be and at times is wrong.

.I can visualize a 5 mlie high building. I can image all the parts in the building. Therefore it is feasible to buidd a 5 mile high building?

 

[southernhybrid]

No. Materials have certain properties, and no matter who does the design, one cannot make the structure stronger than the materials allow.

That's funny, I agree with the above and say the same thing. We may disagree with where the limits lay.

Unless you want to go all the way of "it was a miracle" - in which case you could as well claim that the ark was made of folded newspapers and miraculously stayed together and afloat.

This is very much the same argument error as the previous above, : "We could as well have claimed the ark was made of folded paper.etc.." , would only be seen that way to you, and since that line is a nonexistent theist claim, then obviously ...theists don't use your example to analogously demonstrate the ark argument the way you do, or think it can.

Are you a Biblical literalist Learner? Hopefully not as it always amazes me when anyone still believes the old myths in the Bible, especially the insane stories in the OT to be literal.

The ark is one of the craziest ones. The dimensions are written in the Bible and there is now way it could hold all animal life, the food needed to feed them for 40 days or the waste matter they would excrete. There were a lot of floods way back in ancient times. Other religious mythology is full of similar stories and symbols that are in the Bible, but anyone with a reasonable mind has to realize these things are all allegories at best, or myths etc.

It took me while, but I realised that what I thought used to be a hindrance to me ... difficulty understanding certain concepts ..e.g.
what people told me was in front of me but wasn't matching what I was seeing, so to speak, I realised later,: atheists with the "flood myth" mentality for example,.. lacked a particular type of logic. What we plainly call... Spatial reasoning. You are considerably lacking it.

Spatial reasoning is the cognitive ability to understand, manipulate, and visualize objects and their spatial relationships in two or three dimensions.

Visualising spatial relationships... looking at dimensions and comparing with the nonsense that say the earth has only had local floods:

About 71% of the Earth's surface is covered by water, leaving approximately 29% as land. This water is predominantly saline, with 96.5% of the planet's total water volume held in the oceans.

I trust my visual sense of judgement in this case, over your mental blind spots.

You don't have to be very intelligent to understand that the so called ark as described in the Bible was way too small to hold all the animals.

Research indicates that spatial reasoning is not innate but is a trainable skill that can be significantly improved through practice.

Although I would say this is also natural starting at an early age, but yes like detectives they too visualize from the clues given them... which is psychological profiling, and understanding the natural characteristic behaviour of physical clues that results in good estimations of the criminal and his habits etc, & etc.

I could say and add more but my time to focus on the subject is limited.

Plus, how do Biblical literalists justify all the cruelty demonstrated by Bible god, one of the worst monsters ever created? Doesn't all that hate and killing including the Noah's Ark story, help people realize that this god was obviously created by men to resemble men?

The bible describes other nations were very barbaric. They warred against the Israelites.

Your so called god killed a lot of Israelites too. Why did he only allow one family on that ark? What about the rest of the people? Why would a loving god kill so many people just because he felt like it? Your god had a long habit of wiping people out. Later in the Bible it says to love your enemies. You don't find that weird, but this loving god wipes people off of the face of the earth so often? I guess you feel the need to have mythology in your life. Luckily, I don't. I try believe in trying to be a good person and if there really was a god, she wouldn't care what I believe. She would care how I acted. There would be no hell if there was such a thing as an afterlife. No loving god would send anyone to such a horrible place simply for not believing the bullshit in the Bible.

Do you think the 10 commandments are so evil because,strangely, it commands the Hebrews NOT to do as the other nations do, which you can see prohibited in the commandments?

Most of the 10 commandments are Human Universals found in all known cultures and societies. The only ones that aren't are the stupid ones about worshiping you god. Why did this so called god need so many commandments about him? What an egotistical jerk he was. Of course, there is no way he was real, but if this mythological god was a horrible cruel leader. As a child, it caused me a lot of emotional stress trying to believe what I was told. I did pray. I did do the silly salvation thing, I was even Baptized when I was about 8, hoping that would help me understand, but I always questioned why this loving god was so hateful but never got any answers that made sense.

You never directly answered the question. Are you a Biblical literalist? I assume you are, sadly.

 

[pood]

No global flood ever happened.

In the year 2026, people are still discussing this shit?

 

[pood]

It took me while, but I realised that what I thought used to be a hindrance to me ... difficulty understanding certain concepts ..e.g.
what people told me was in front of me but wasn't matching what I was seeing, so to speak, I realised later,: atheists with the "flood myth" mentality for example,.. lacked a particular type of logic. What we plainly call... Spatial reasoning. You are considerably lacking it.

Such unbelievable nonsense.

 

[ideologyhunter]

It took me while, but I realised that what I thought used to be a hindrance to me ... difficulty understanding certain concepts ..e.g.
what people told me was in front of me but wasn't matching what I was seeing, so to speak, I realised later,: atheists with the "flood myth" mentality for example,.. lacked a particular type of logic. What we plainly call... Spatial reasoning. You are considerably lacking it.

Such unbelievable nonsense.

I have cousins whose heads are so full of Jesus that they cannot think straight. They're college educated, and yet among them are climate change deniers, Trumpists, young earth creationists, anti-vaxxers, and, pretty obviously, patriarchal traditionalists and anti-gay bigots.
I spent years seeking someone to be my medical power of attorney. Do you think for a second I'd want my loonybird cousins to make medical care judgments for me? Not on your first enema. A good friend of mine took that position.
I wouldn't want a religious zealot making any decisions for me. Not sure I'd be comfortable with them checking my IV. If such a person's mentality is so cartoonishly fixated on ancient writings and an imaginary invisible realm peopled with magical beings who are watching us...I don't feel we occupy the same century. (Actually, I'll take that back about checking the IV. I neither know nor care what someone's belief system is unless they could make determinative judgments about my life. And most of the nurses I've encountered have sharp, developed senses of humor.)

 

[pood]

So, atheists deny the Flood story because they lack … spatial reasoning?

Honestly, wtf does that even mean?

 

[ideologyhunter]

So, atheists deny the Flood story because they lack … spatial reasoning?

Honestly, wtf does that even mean?

Yeah, I reread the post and it doesn't scan no matter how many times you read it.

It is tiresome to contest the plausibility of Noah. It is no more believable than Rapunzel in her castle. It makes more sense in 2026 to study man's horrible environmental assault on the oceans rather than this inane story about a murder flood.

But, for the spatial reasoning crowd, Gen. 7 talks about all the earth's nonaquatic creatures outside of the ark dying -- so it encompassed the planet. And that the waters covered even the tallest mountains by 15 cubits (22 feet.) Earth's tallest mountains top out at over 5 miles above sea level. Doesn't this require about five and a half miles of water to rise up above sea level? That's spatial enough for me.
I've yet to meet a Jewish person who didn't consider this stuff to be a tale or a myth or a legend, take your pick. Somehow our modern conservative Christians have to perceive history in this, no matter that the writing style alerts you at every step that you are reading a FOLK TALE. Can't they just enjoy it, on that basis? (Since it's a genocidal plot line, maybe that's a stretch.) But, since they seem able to reconcile the flood events with their god's loving nature, can't they just read it as a tale with a moral?

 

[Learner]

Learner are you famili8ar with MC Esher and his optical illusions?


Does your partial reasoning see any problem in the picture?

You're applying the use iof 'spatial reasoning in a totally different context. I did of course say previously: atheists are lacking i(n your usual arguments).and you are as expected, leading off to elsewhere...

View attachment 55520

.. meaning I wouldn't be deriving from spatial reasoning the same thing from the known physical facts observed of the oceans and land mass as compared to your optical illusions in a flat dimension of a picture.

The Ark is a different perspective argument (which I will come to later) in regards to spatial reasoning which I add:
Key components include mental rotation (visualizing objects from different angles), and spatial orientation (understanding perspectives) of nature. I am apply it to existing real things i.e. the oceans and land mass.

I don't see why this can't be a good discussion alternatively. Unfortunately..the problem I see with secularists who oppose the 'world flood.,'. just because it's mentioned in the bible (and other ancient cultures) have hindered themselves, (in part to dishonesty (subconsciously perhaps)) for the sake to oppose the bible when ...

...you would only need argue the world flood was a 'natural' occurrence requiring no influence from any God when approaching the 'spatial reasoning' of what we know of the real existing dimensions and percentage between the oceans and land mass. It is a valid proposal without the bible

I'm tired, pardon me I will have to discuss the ark another time.

 

[steve_bank]

Learner

You can not substitute what you read on spatial reasoning on the net for factual practicalities. S[spatial reasoning is subjective perception, leadrned behavior.

You probably don]t understudy it, but made it fit your thinking.

AI Overview

Catching a baseball heavily relies on spatial reasoning and dynamic spatial awareness, combined with real-time visual tracking and motor control

It has nothing to do with how an alleged Noah wound have conceptualized the ark.
ing

More like
ghios.

AI Overview
750 male fgemale par species. Wiud tyhat acunt for each and every speci9es?
Creative visualization is the cognitive practice of using your imagination to form vivid mental images of a desired goal or future outcome

I can visualize a 3D mechanical object of multiple parts. I learned to do it.

Based on biblical dimensions the volume of the ark was about 1.5 million cubit feet. Lets say each animal needs a 10x10x10 feet space. 1000 cubic fee per animal.

1.5e6/1000 = 1500 animals or 750 male female pairs of species. It that enough to cover all spec9es?

Lets say each animal; needs 1 ga;;on of water per day. I doubt flood water wo8d be safe to drink.

1 gallon * 1500 animals *360 days = 540,000 gallons of water.

540000 gallons = 72187.5 cubic feet. That weighs 4482000 pouns.

How do you feed carnivores?


And finally after a year of global wearer higher than mountains the global ecosystem would be dead.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Um yes (before you ask)...God would know how to build an ARK with the structural integrity to withstand the flood.

So then why didn't God build the ark? Why did he make Noah and his family build the ark? Noah et al would not have this amazing knowledge that God has, so how could they build it? Seems he is a sadist to give them this monumental task.

 

[steve_bank]

Considering the way the universe turned out I doubt god would be much of boat designer.

Asteroid strikes, earthquakes, storms. birth defects, disease and so om. What's up with mosquitos, I just don't get it.

Supernova,

 

[Ovazor]

It took me while, but I realised that what I thought used to be a hindrance to me ... difficulty understanding certain concepts ..e.g.
what people told me was in front of me but wasn't matching what I was seeing, so to speak, I realised later,: atheists with the "flood myth" mentality for example,.. lacked a particular type of logic. What we plainly call... Spatial reasoning. You are considerably lacking it.

Spatial reasoning is the cognitive ability to understand, manipulate, and visualize objects and their spatial relationships in two or three dimensions.

Yes, and as an engineer I find it a rather useful skill to have.

Visualising spatial relationships... looking at dimensions and comparing with the nonsense that say the earth has only had local floods:

About 71% of the Earth's surface is covered by water, leaving approximately 29% as land. This water is predominantly saline, with 96.5% of the planet's total water volume held in the oceans.

Simple spatial reasoning tells me, that if practically all the water on the planet is in the oceans, and that leaves 29% of the surface area uncovered, a global flood covering all the land, even the highest mountaintops, would require several times the water that actually exist on the planet, Which plainly makes such flood impossible.

I trust my visual sense of judgement in this case, over your mental blind spots.

Perhaps you should train your spatial reasoning to improve your visual sense of judgement.

 

[pood]

Again, a global flood never happened.

I still have no idea what “spatial reasoning” has to do with any of this, especially after reading Learner’s most recent lucubrations on the subject. I know I have perfectly adequate and perhaps even great spatial reasoning judging by all the artwork I have sold. I can look at a human figure and instantly turn it around in my head, from every possible angle, and draw it from all those angles with no one posing. I did not learn that on my own; I learned it from software called Poser, which I used for a long-ago job. Not sure if Poser is still on the market.

 

[ideologyhunter]

No, you are considerably lacking in it. You probably walk into doors.

 

[Learner]

Learner

You can not substitute what you read on spatial reasoning on the net for factual practicalities. S[spatial reasoning is subjective perception, leadrned behavior.

You probably don]t understudy it, but made it fit your thinking.

Oh my,..that will be the next rhetoric line of debate...from our intellectuals (not necessarily you directly - you don't quite follow the herd, you were out numbered on some threads...parrots of an idea that is subject to future change) so, I know what it is, have done for years... I've mentioned it in the past.

Anyway old chum ...There are various ways or aspects to it.. depending on the subject matter. I'm talking of plain common -sense...in this case to judge the ratio between the oceans covering the earth and the exposed land. Our um intellectuals prefer the more complicated look of sophistication.

Simple dimple basic reasoning to propose from 71 % water still covering the earth is still a flood, or a reduction of what was left of a global flood. But... I believe the bible for all sorts of reasons. Spatial reasoning is but one aspect to reinforcing my belief and perspective of the bible and the world.

AI Overview

Catching a baseball heavily relies on spatial reasoning and dynamic spatial awareness, combined with real-time visual tracking and motor control

It has nothing to do with how an alleged Noah wound have conceptualized the ark.
ing

More like
ghios.

As I said ... spatial reasoning was applied to the flood, simple thinking regarding ratios between the oceans and the land mass being covered. ( I haven't mentioned other issues like for example rapid fossilisation in terms of being more recent than initially thought..which is but a small aspect of many that reinforces my view.

Spatial reasoning isn't my only mode of curious thinking. The bible I take to.. is based on lots of things in the equation.

Anyway, seriously. cheers for the conversation. I'm still working at the moment.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Why would anyone try to reconcile the water/land ratio with reasoning when the story's main character is SIX HUNDRED GODDAMN YEARS OLD??? That doesn't suggest to you that perhaps the events are fictional?

 

[pood]

Learner

You can not substitute what you read on spatial reasoning on the net for factual practicalities. S[spatial reasoning is subjective perception, leadrned behavior.

You probably don]t understudy it, but made it fit your thinking.

Oh my,..that will be the next rhetoric line of debate...from our intellectuals (not necessarily you directly - you don't quite follow the herd, you were out numbered) so, I know what it is, have done for years... I've mentioned it in the past.

Anyway old chum ...There are various ways or aspects to it.. depending on the subject matter. I'm talking of plain common -sense...in this case to judge the ratio between the oceans covering the earth and the exposed land. Our um intellectuals prefer the more complicated looking

Simple dimple basic reasoning to propose from 71 % water still covering the earth is still a flood, or a reduction of what was left of a global flood. But... I believe the bible for all sorts of reasons. Spatial reasoning is but one aspect to reinforcing my belief and perspective of the bible and the world.

AI Overview

Catching a baseball heavily relies on spatial reasoning and dynamic spatial awareness, combined with real-time visual tracking and motor control

It has nothing to do with how an alleged Noah wound have conceptualized the ark.
ing

More like
ghios.

As I said ... spatial reasoning was applied to the flood, simple thinking regarding ratios between the oceans and the land mass being covered. ( I haven't mentioned other issues like for example rapid fossilisation in terms of being more recent than initially thought..which is but a small aspect of many that reinforces my view.

Spatial reasoning isn't my only mode of curious thinking. The bible I take to.. is based on lots of things in the equation.

Anyway, seriously. cheers for the conversation. I'm still working at the moment.

Again, a global flood never happened.