Exra Klein Dives Into the Gap Between Pulbic Perception of HIllary and What She's Like in Person

[Ford]

http://www.vox.com/a/hillary-clinton-interview/the-gap-listener-leadership-quality

“I love Bill Clinton,” says Tom Harkin, who served as senator from Iowa from 1985 to 2015. “But every time you talk to Bill, you’re just trying to get a word in edgewise. With Hillary, you’re in a meeting with her, and she really listens to you.”

This is not the first time I've heard that while she comes across as a policy wonk at best, and an ice queen at worst in public, in person Hillary Clinton is smart, funny, and engaging.

The article isn't exactly a love-fest (he spends quite a bit of time on her lack of management skills among other things) but the central premise - that she's different because she listens - is worth exploring. Our politics has been swamped with overly-charismatic people who are good at making speeches, but not good at the sort of compromise and horse-trading that makes effective policy.

 

[untermensche]

Who gives a damn?

I will never meet her.

I vote for people who make decisions that I like.

Hillary has made a lot of bad decisions so it is difficult to vote for her.

But ultimately it is incredibly easy to vote against Trump.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

http://www.vox.com/a/hillary-clinton-interview/the-gap-listener-leadership-quality

“I love Bill Clinton,” says Tom Harkin, who served as senator from Iowa from 1985 to 2015. “But every time you talk to Bill, you’re just trying to get a word in edgewise. With Hillary, you’re in a meeting with her, and she really listens to you.”

This is not the first time I've heard that while she comes across as a policy wonk at best, and an ice queen at worst in public, in person Hillary Clinton is smart, funny, and engaging.

The article isn't exactly a love-fest (he spends quite a bit of time on her lack of management skills among other things) but the central premise - that she's different because she listens - is worth exploring. Our politics has been swamped with overly-charismatic people who are good at making speeches, but not good at the sort of compromise and horse-trading that makes effective policy.

Can you give details on the lack of management skills?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Who gives a damn?

I will never meet her.

I vote for people who make decisions that I like.

Hillary has made a lot of bad decisions so it is difficult to vote for her.

But ultimately it is incredibly easy to vote against Trump.

Lots of people have made poor decisions. You should give her a chance. Her future decisions may surprise you....

 

[Will Wiley]

 

[Harry Bosch]

View attachment 7437

How original. You've only posted this dribble at least three times. HRC voted for the Iraq war that 70% of the US supported. Blame all Americans if you'd like. However, she didn't implement it. That was Bush. Regardless, her foreign policy views would lead to far less civilian deaths than your dreambot Putin. Putin's indiscriminate carpet bombing of Syrians has killed hundreds of civilians. To condemn Hillary while cheering for Putin makes you a hypocrite.

 

[Will Wiley]

View attachment 7437

How original. You've only posted this dribble at least three times. HRC voted for the Iraq war that 70% of the US supported. Blame all Americans if you'd like. However, she didn't implement it. That was Bush. Regardless, her foreign policy views would lead to far less civilian deaths than your dreambot Putin. Putin's indiscriminate carpet bombing of Syrians has killed hundreds of civilians. To condemn Hillary while cheering for Putin makes you a hypocrite.

Why not have the decency to quote me if you think I support Russia killing civilians?

I won't hold my breath Harry.

 

[Will Wiley]

Maybe Hillary should be president because she is

smart funny and engaging

. That seems like a good reason.

 

[Derec]

That seems like a good reason.

Well, marginally better than electing her because she is a woman.

 

[ZiprHead]

How original. You've only posted this dribble at least three times. HRC voted for the Iraq war that 70% of the US supported. Blame all Americans if you'd like. However, she didn't implement it. That was Bush. Regardless, her foreign policy views would lead to far less civilian deaths than your dreambot Putin. Putin's indiscriminate carpet bombing of Syrians has killed hundreds of civilians. To condemn Hillary while cheering for Putin makes you a hypocrite.

Why not have the decency to quote me if you think I support Russia killing civilians?

I won't hold my breath Harry.

You think supporting Hillary means supporting a killer. Why is it not the same when you support Putin?

 

[Ford]

Why not have the decency to quote me if you think I support Russia killing civilians?

I won't hold my breath Harry.

You think supporting Hillary means supporting a killer. Why is it not the same when you support Putin?

You have to understand that Will is one of those people who - for some reason or another - cannot and will not speak ill of Putin. Not even mild criticism. You will certainly not get him to admit that Putin is responsible for civilian deaths. Also, did you hear? Ukraine is beset by Western-backed Nazis who are denying their citizens the ability to freely decide to be annexed by peacefully become part of Russia!

 

[Will Wiley]

Why not have the decency to quote me if you think I support Russia killing civilians?

I won't hold my breath Harry.

You think supporting Hillary means supporting a killer. Why is it not the same when you support Putin?

Why don't you quote me so I can respond?
What is wrong with you Americans? I criticise Clinton and you guys gets so offended you bring up Putin and accuse me of all sorts of things but don't have the decency to quote me.
What is wrong with you....explain please.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why don't you quote me so I can respond?
What is wrong with you Americans? I criticise Clinton and you guys gets so offended you bring up Putin and accuse me of all sorts of things but don't have the decency to quote me.
What is wrong with you....explain please.

It's just kind of funny when a Russian starts complaining about some other country's leader being a killer of civilians. It's like Donald Trump bitching about someone using the bankruptcy laws to screw over their customers. He might be making a valid point, but it would be pretty hilarious to hear him be the one saying it.

 

[Ford]

Why don't you quote me so I can respond?
What is wrong with you Americans? I criticise Clinton and you guys gets so offended you bring up Putin and accuse me of all sorts of things but don't have the decency to quote me.
What is wrong with you....explain please.

It's just kind of funny when a Russian starts complaining about some other country's leader being a killer of civilians. It's like Donald Trump bitching about someone using the bankruptcy laws to screw over their customers. He might be making a valid point, but it would be pretty hilarious to hear him be the one saying it.

What's really funny is when you put someone on ignore because they were doing nothing but spewing non-stop pro-Putin propaganda, and they don't realize you can't see their rants anymore.


But anyway, let's all get back to discussing the article!

 

[laughing dog]

You think supporting Hillary means supporting a killer. Why is it not the same when you support Putin?

Why don't you quote me so I can respond?
What is wrong with you Americans? I criticise Clinton and you guys gets so offended you bring up Putin and accuse me of all sorts of things but don't have the decency to quote me.
What is wrong with you....explain please.

The problem with them is that for some reason they think someone who constantly demonizes HRC and who constantly praises Putin has to be a fucking idiot.

 

[ZiprHead]

You think supporting Hillary means supporting a killer. Why is it not the same when you support Putin?

Why don't you quote me so I can respond?
What is wrong with you Americans? I criticise Clinton and you guys gets so offended you bring up Putin and accuse me of all sorts of things but don't have the decency to quote me.
What is wrong with you....explain please.

Nice deflection. Does the question make you uncomfortable?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

View attachment 7437

How original. You've only posted this dribble at least three times. HRC voted for the Iraq war that 70% of the US supported.

I thought it was 68% in favor only ON CONDITION that the UN approved of it. I guess history really is written by the victors. Mission Accomplished.

 

[Harry Bosch]

How original. You've only posted this dribble at least three times. HRC voted for the Iraq war that 70% of the US supported.

I thought it was 68% in favor only ON CONDITION that the UN approved of it. I guess history really is written by the victors. Mission Accomplished.

I would like to see your poll. According to this, it was 72%:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war-against-iraq.aspx

Here's the deal: it was wildly popular position in the US to invade Iraq. It bothers me that people like Will try to pin all the blame on HRC. It's bullshit. America wanted that war. To only blame HRC and the specific politicians who voted for invasion is to let off the American public off the hook. I just feel that we should all look in the mirror before blaming any single person for the invasion.

And it is incredibly ironic that any Putin fan boys should be condemning an American politician regarding civilian deaths!

 

[Ford]

Here's the deal: it was wildly popular position in the US to invade Iraq. It bothers me that people like Will try to pin all the blame on HRC. It's bullshit. America wanted that war. To only blame HRC and the specific politicians who voted for invasion is to let off the American public off the hook. I just feel that we should all look in the mirror before blaming any single person for the invasion.

Here's the deal from my perspective...


The ongoing effort to point out that then-Senator Hillary Clinton voted for the war is an attempt to shift blame off of the people who actually ordered the invasion. Did she vote in favor of the use of force? Absolutely. Did John Kerry? Yep.


Yet lost in the rush to blame Clinton, Kerry, and the other Democrats in the Senate is the fact that every single Republican Senator also voted in favor. And all the Republicans in the Executive Branch were hell-bent on turning that vote into an invasion.


Only when the occupation went south...again...only when the occupation went south did the right wing start in with their "well Hillary voted for the invasion, too!" crap.


The GOP owned the Iraq War up until the nanosecond that it began to go bad, and at that moment they began to remind everyone that Hillary Rodham Clinton voted in favor, and tried to pretend that the "Mission Accomplished" banner and carrier landing was not a victory lap.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Here's the deal: it was wildly popular position in the US to invade Iraq. It bothers me that people like Will try to pin all the blame on HRC. It's bullshit. America wanted that war. To only blame HRC and the specific politicians who voted for invasion is to let off the American public off the hook. I just feel that we should all look in the mirror before blaming any single person for the invasion.

Here's the deal from my perspective...


The ongoing effort to point out that then-Senator Hillary Clinton voted for the war is an attempt to shift blame off of the people who actually ordered the invasion. Did she vote in favor of the use of force? Absolutely. Did John Kerry? Yep.


Yet lost in the rush to blame Clinton, Kerry, and the other Democrats in the Senate is the fact that every single Republican Senator also voted in favor. And all the Republicans in the Executive Branch were hell-bent on turning that vote into an invasion.


Only when the occupation went south...again...only when the occupation went south did the right wing start in with their "well Hillary voted for the invasion, too!" crap.


The GOP owned the Iraq War up until the nanosecond that it began to go bad, and at that moment they began to remind everyone that Hillary Rodham Clinton voted in favor, and tried to pretend that the "Mission Accomplished" banner and carrier landing was not a victory lap.

Very much agreed. The Iraq war and it's aftermath are a big reason why I've permanently moved away from the republicans. The American public did support the invasion. Now I do believe that most simply wanted a brutal dictator removed from office. Bush and the republicans deserve severe blame for the invasion for the falsely claiming Iraq sponsored Bin Laden and had weapons of mass destruction; and the terrible implementation of the invasion and it's occupation.
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