Angra Mainyu
Veteran Member
Wiploc,
I'm afraid that I'm not going to spend so much time on this anymore. I thought I had been more successful before. I will try to be brief, but meatspace is getting in the way, so I'd rather not participate much in this thread anymore.
If Speakpigeon prays, Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent.
That is true because Speakpigeon does not pray. Also, the statement "If Speakpigeon prays, Elvis is alive, the Moon Landing was a hoax, and the Rapture will happen before 2019" is true.
But no, you got it wrong. The statement "It is true that if Speakpigeon prays, then Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent." has exactly the same truth table as "If Speakpigeon prays, then Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent".
I'm afraid that I'm not going to spend so much time on this anymore. I thought I had been more successful before. I will try to be brief, but meatspace is getting in the way, so I'd rather not participate much in this thread anymore.
If Speakpigeon prays, Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent.
That is true because Speakpigeon does not pray. Also, the statement "If Speakpigeon prays, Elvis is alive, the Moon Landing was a hoax, and the Rapture will happen before 2019" is true.
That one is false, because Speakpigeon it is the denial of a true statement.it is not true that if Speakpigeon prays, Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent.
No, "it is not true that" does not mean the same as "it is true that".Wiploc said:That means the same as this:
It is true that ..
Yes.Wiploc said:To get the value FALSE, we have to have the prayer and have it not answered.
(sorry, it would take too long to learn how to format that to copy your format, and quoting would not work because I want to keep only those parts).Wiploc said:Therefore, the truth table for this statement ...
It is true that if Speakpigeon prays, then Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent.
But no, you got it wrong. The statement "It is true that if Speakpigeon prays, then Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent." has exactly the same truth table as "If Speakpigeon prays, then Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent".
That is equivalent, yes.So this statement ...
It is not true that if Speakpigeon prays, then Speakpigeon's prayers will be answered by an omnimax agent.
... can be restated this way:
Speakpigeon prays and the prayer is not answered by an omimax agent.
It looks true to you because you're interpreting "if...then" in a way in which the equivalence does not hold. However, interpreted in that manner, the argument would not be valid.Wiploc said:Why does one version look true when the other doesn't?
There are different conditionals. In this context, for the argument to be valid, the conditional is a material conditional (look it up, or take a look at Bomb#20's latest post, especially the part about the meaning of 'if'). The ordinary meaning is different, and that gives you the wrong impression.Wiploc said:I don't understand what was ambiguous about it. Can somebody explain that to me?