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Will The Oligarchy that owns the US eeeevvvvveerrrrrr be slightly reined in?

Will there EVER be a return to sanity/progressivism?

  • after 2020

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • after 2024

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • after some future election

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • never

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • only after ecological or economic tragedy

    Votes: 9 45.0%
  • after ecological or economic tragedy there will be full bore fascism

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Total voters
    20
I'd take issue with that assertion if there was any objective metric by which "far reaching changes" could be tracked. I do know that the interstate highway system was instrumental to enabling the reforms of the '60s, and is still in heavy use. I think that fact alone belies your assertion, but again, there's no way to know "what if" Eisenhower's infrastructure initiatives had never been adopted.
That means that the Eisenhower Era was not completely conservative, that it had some public-interest features. It also had the earlier part of the black civil-rights movement, with Eisenhower supporting desegregation efforts. That may be why the founder of the John Birch Society insinuated that Eisenhower was a Communist.


The Economic Bill of Rights - President Franklin Delano Roosevelt proposed it in January 11, 1944, toward the end of his presidency and his life. Here it is:
  • The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
  • The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
  • The right of every family to a decent home;
  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
  • The right to a good education.

It was late in the New Deal Era, so it did not get any followup. That's what has happened to other reforms that were late in previous liberal eras:
  • Civil War Era: Reconstruction - much of it reversed until the Sixties Era
  • Progressive Era: women's-rights efforts (women getting the vote) - stalled until until the Sixties Era
  • New Deal Era: black civil-rights efforts (desegregation of the armed forces) - stalled until the middle of the Eisenhower Era
  • Sixties Era: Equal Rights Amendment - stalled, only recently restarted
  • Sixties Era: legalization of abortion - abortion became a political battleground
  • Sixties Era: Adoption of the metric system of units - slow progress
 
Let's see what might be next.

A Bill of Rights for the 21st Century - Brand New Congress
  • The Right to Justice and Liberty for All
    • All individuals have the right to liberty, justice, and equal protection under the law
  • The Right to Quality of Life
    • Every American has a right to quality of life
  • The Right to Self-Determination in Governance
    • Self-determination in governance is a human right
  • The Right to Equal Participation in Governance
    • Every citizen of the United States has the right to equal participation in our government
    • All citizens have the right to seek public office regardless of their means
    • The right to vote is universal to all citizens, unimpeded by race, incarceration, gender, or geography
  • The Right to Healthcare & Bodily Autonomy
    • Healthcare is a human right, and all people in the United States must be guaranteed all forms of healthcare throughout an individual’s lifetime
    • All individuals have the right to make choices about their bodies and to bodily autonomy
  • The Right to a Healthy Environment
    • All individuals have the right to a clean, safe, and sustainable environment
  • The Right to Housing
    • All individuals have the right to clean, safe, modernized housing
  • The Right to Education
    • A high-quality education is essential to secure the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
  • The Right to Employment
    • Every American who needs a job has a right to stable and sustainable employment with a living wage
  • The Right to Safe and Sustainable Public Infrastructure
    • All individuals and communities have the right to modern, clean, safe and sustainable public infrastructure
    • The right to modern-day communications access
  • The Right to Freedom of Movement
    • All people have the right to move freely, live, and work throughout the country
  • The Right to Privacy
    • The privacy of individuals must not be infringed upon by the government
Seems more like general principles than specific proposals. Some of these proposed rights are rather impractical, at least in full form. Like healthcare. Consider expensive treatments that prolong one's life only a little and do little for the quality of one's life. Are such treatments worth trying to guarantee?
 
Justice Democrats: Platform
  • Transform Our Economy
    • Green New Deal
    • Secure a living wage and tie it to inflation
    • Enact a Federal jobs guarantee
    • Rebuild our crumbling infrastructure
    • Block bad trade deals
    • End tax dodging and loopholes
    • End unnecessary wars and nation building
  • Protect Our Rights
    • Medicare for all
    • Free public colleges and trade schools
    • Defend and expend Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid
    • Ensure paid vacation time, sick time, family leave, childcare
    • Fight for racial justice
    • Protect women's rights
    • Combat homelessness
    • Police reform
    • Enact common-sense gun regulation
    • Voting rights
  • Defend Our Democracy
    • Abolish ICE
    • End corruption
    • Reform our criminal justice system
    • Implement comprehensive immigration reform
    • Stop selling arms to human rights volators
    • End the failed war on drugs
    • Abolish the death penalty
    • Democracy reform
    • Oppose bigotry
    • Defend net neutrality
More specific, and here also, some impractical proposals.
 
Our Revolution: Platform
  • Income Inequality
  • College Tuition
  • Big Money in Politics
  • Foreign Policy
  • Immigration
  • Creating Decent Paying Jobs
  • A Living Wage
  • Climate Change
  • Racial Justice
  • Net Neutrality
  • Puerto Rico
  • Affordable Housing
  • Women's Rights
  • AIDS and HIV
  • LGBT Equality
  • Empowering Tribal Nations
  • Caring for Our Veterans
  • Medicare for All
  • Strengthen Social Security
  • Prescription Drug Prices
  • Disability Rights
  • TPP
It goes into rather gory detail about each one of them.
 
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Plans | Elizabeth Warren
  • 100% Clean Energy for America
  • A Fair and Welcoming Immigration System
  • A Fair Workweek for America’s Part-Time Workers
  • A Great Public School Education for Every Student
  • A New Approach to Trade
  • A New Farm Economy
  • A Working Agenda for Black America
  • Accelerating the Transition to Clean Energy
  • Addressing Discrimination and Ensuring Equity for Farmers of Color
  • Addressing Our Maternal Mortality Epidemic
  • Affordable Higher Education for All
  • Breaking the Political Influence of Market-Dominant Companies
  • Comprehensive Criminal Justice Reform
  • Comprehensive Debt Relief to Puerto Rico
  • Defend & Create American Jobs
  • Empowering American Workers and Raising Wages
  • Empowering Workers Through Accountable Capitalism
  • End Private Prisons
  • End Wall Street's Stranglehold on Our Economy
  • End Washington Corruption
  • Ending the Opioid Crisis
  • Ending the Stranglehold of Health Care Costs on American Families
  • Excessive Lobbying Tax
  • Expanding Social Security
  • Fighting Back Against White Nationalist Violence
  • Fighting Corporate Perjury
  • Fighting for an Accessible & Inclusive America
  • Fighting For Justice As We Combat The Climate Crisis
  • Fighting for Service Members, Veterans, and Military Families
  • Foreign Policy
  • Get Rid of the Electoral College
  • Getting Big Money Out of Politics
  • Health Care Is A Basic Human Right
  • Holding Wall Street Accountable
  • Honoring and Empowering Tribal Nations and Indigenous Peoples
  • How We Can Break Up Big Tech
  • Improving Our Military Housing
  • Investing in Rural America
  • Keeping Our Promises to Our Service Members, Veterans, and Military Families
  • Leading in Green Manufacturing
  • Leveling the Playing Field for America’s Family Farmers
  • Leveling the Playing Field for Entrepreneurs of Color
  • My First Term Plan for Reducing Health Care Costs in America and Transitioning to Medicare for All
  • My Plan to Create 10.6 Million Green Jobs
  • My Plan to Fight Global Financial Corruption
  • No President Is Above the Law
  • Our Military Can Help Lead The Fight In Combating Climate Change
  • Paid Family and Medical Leave
  • Promoting Competitive Markets
  • Protect A Woman's Right to Choose
  • Protecting and Empowering Renters
  • Protecting Our Communities from Gun Violence
  • Protecting Our Public Lands
  • Real Corporate Profits Tax
  • Rebuild the State Department
  • Reduce Corporate Influence at the Pentagon
  • Restoring Trust in an Impartial and Ethical Judiciary
  • Safe and Affordable Housing
  • Securing LGBTQ+ Rights and Equality
  • Strengthening Congressional Independence from Corporate Lobbyists
  • Strengthening Our Democracy
  • Tackling the Climate Crisis Head On
  • The Coming Economic Crash — And How to Stop It
  • Ultra-Millionaire Tax
  • Universal Child Care
  • Valuing the Work of Women of Color
  • We Need A Blue New Deal For Our Oceans
A big list, and I won't try to sort them out.
 
Bernie Sanders on the issues
  • A Welcoming and Safe America for All
    • Institute a moratorium on deportations until a thorough audit of past practices and policies is complete.
    • Reinstate and expand DACA and develop a humane policy for those seeking asylum.
    • Completely reshape and reform our immigration enforcement system, including breaking up ICE and CBP and redistributing their functions to their proper authorities.
    • Dismantle cruel and inhumane deportation programs and detention centers and reunite families who have been separated.
    • Live up to our ideals as a nation and welcome refugees and those seeking asylum, including those displaced by climate change.
  • Medicare for All
    • Create a Medicare for All, single-payer, national health insurance program to provide everyone in America with comprehensive health care coverage, free at the point of service.
    • No networks, no premiums, no deductibles, no copays, no surprise bills.
    • Medicare coverage will be expanded and improved to include: include dental, hearing, vision, and home- and community-based long-term care, in-patient and out-patient services, mental health and substance abuse treatment, reproductive and maternity care, prescription drugs, and more.
    • Stop the pharmaceutical industry from ripping off the American people by making sure that no one in America pays over $200 a year for the medicine they need by capping what Americans pay for prescription drugs under Medicare for All.
  • Green New Deal
    • Transform our energy system to 100 percent renewable energy and create 20 million jobs needed to solve the climate crisis.
    • Ensure a just transition for communities and workers, including fossil fuel workers.
    • Ensure justice for frontline communities, especially under-resourced groups, communities of color, Native Americans, people with disabilities, children and the elderly.
    • Save American families money with investments in weatherization, public transportation, modern infrastructure and high-speed broadband.
    • Commit to reducing emissions throughout the world, including providing $200 billion to the Green Climate Fund, rejoining the Paris Agreement, and reasserting the United States’ leadership in the global fight against climate change.
    • Invest in conservation and public lands to heal our soils, forests, and prairie lands.
    • End the greed of the fossil fuel industry and hold them accountable.
  • College for All
    • Guarantee tuition and debt-free public colleges, universities, HBCUs, Minority Serving Institutions and trade-schools to all.
    • Cancel all student loan debt for the some 45 million Americans who owe about $1.6 trillion and place a cap on student loan interest rates going forward at 1.88 percent.
    • Invest $1.3 billion every year in private, non-profit historically black colleges and universities and minority-serving institutions
    • End equity gaps in higher education attainment. And ensure students are able to cover non-tuition costs of attending school by: expanding Pell Grants to cover non-tuition and fee costs, tripling funding for the Work-Study Program, and more.
  • Workplace Democracy
    • Double union membership within Bernie’s first term.
    • Establish federal protections against the firing of workers for any reason other than “just cause.”
    • Provide unions the ability to organize through a majority sign up process and enact “first contract” provisions to ensure companies cannot prevent a union from forming by denying a first contract.
    • Deny federal contracts to companies that pay poverty wages, outsource jobs overseas, engage in union busting, deny good benefits, and pay CEOs outrageous compensation packages
    • Eliminate “Right to Work for Less” laws and guarantees the right to unionize for workers historically excluded from labor protections, like farm workers and domestic workers.
  • Housing for All
    • End the housing crisis by investing $2.5 trillion to build nearly 10 million permanently affordable housing units.
    • Protect tenants by implementing a national rent control standard, a “just-cause” requirement for evictions, and ensuring the right to counsel in housing disputes.
    • Make rent affordable by making Section 8 vouchers available to all eligible families without a waitlist and strengthening the Fair Housing Act.
    • Combat gentrification, exclusionary zoning, segregation, and speculation.
    • End homelessness and ensure fair housing for all
    • Revitalize public housing by investing $70 billion to repair, decarbonize, and build new public housing.
Though Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist, that platform is clearly social democracy.
 
Plans | Elizabeth Warren
  • 100% Clean Energy for America
  • A Fair and Welcoming Immigration System
  • A Fair Workweek for America’s Part-Time Workers
  • A Great Public School Education for Every Student
  • A New Approach to Trade
  • A New Farm Economy
  • A Working Agenda for Black America
  • Accelerating the Transition to Clean Energy
  • Addressing Discrimination and Ensuring Equity for Farmers of Color
  • Addressing Our Maternal Mortality Epidemic
  • Affordable Higher Education for All
  • Breaking the Political Influence of Market-Dominant Companies
  • Comprehensive Criminal Justice Reform
  • Comprehensive Debt Relief to Puerto Rico
  • Defend & Create American Jobs
  • Empowering American Workers and Raising Wages
  • Empowering Workers Through Accountable Capitalism
  • End Private Prisons
  • End Wall Street's Stranglehold on Our Economy
  • End Washington Corruption
  • Ending the Opioid Crisis
  • Ending the Stranglehold of Health Care Costs on American Families
  • Excessive Lobbying Tax
  • Expanding Social Security
  • Fighting Back Against White Nationalist Violence
  • Fighting Corporate Perjury
  • Fighting for an Accessible & Inclusive America
  • Fighting For Justice As We Combat The Climate Crisis
  • Fighting for Service Members, Veterans, and Military Families
  • Foreign Policy
  • Get Rid of the Electoral College
  • Getting Big Money Out of Politics
  • Health Care Is A Basic Human Right
  • Holding Wall Street Accountable
  • Honoring and Empowering Tribal Nations and Indigenous Peoples
  • How We Can Break Up Big Tech
  • Improving Our Military Housing
  • Investing in Rural America
  • Keeping Our Promises to Our Service Members, Veterans, and Military Families
  • Leading in Green Manufacturing
  • Leveling the Playing Field for America’s Family Farmers
  • Leveling the Playing Field for Entrepreneurs of Color
  • My First Term Plan for Reducing Health Care Costs in America and Transitioning to Medicare for All
  • My Plan to Create 10.6 Million Green Jobs
  • My Plan to Fight Global Financial Corruption
  • No President Is Above the Law
  • Our Military Can Help Lead The Fight In Combating Climate Change
  • Paid Family and Medical Leave
  • Promoting Competitive Markets
  • Protect A Woman's Right to Choose
  • Protecting and Empowering Renters
  • Protecting Our Communities from Gun Violence
  • Protecting Our Public Lands
  • Real Corporate Profits Tax
  • Rebuild the State Department
  • Reduce Corporate Influence at the Pentagon
  • Restoring Trust in an Impartial and Ethical Judiciary
  • Safe and Affordable Housing
  • Securing LGBTQ+ Rights and Equality
  • Strengthening Congressional Independence from Corporate Lobbyists
  • Strengthening Our Democracy
  • Tackling the Climate Crisis Head On
  • The Coming Economic Crash — And How to Stop It
  • Ultra-Millionaire Tax
  • Universal Child Care
  • Valuing the Work of Women of Color
  • We Need A Blue New Deal For Our Oceans
A big list, and I won't try to sort them out.

Yea, I've always found that the larger the message, the less effective it will be.
 
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Platform (back during her campaign) "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is running for Congress to create an America that works for all of us, not just a wealthy few."
  • Medicare For All
  • Housing As a Human Right
  • A Peace Economy
  • A Federal Jobs Guarantee
  • Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
  • Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
  • Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
  • Solidarity with Puerto Rico
  • Mobilizing Against Climate Change
  • Clean Campaign Finance
  • Higher Education / Trade School for All
  • Women's Rights
  • Support LGBTQIA+
  • Support Seniors
  • Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall
I could get the platforms of like-minded politicians, but I'll stop here.

These platforms are a mixture of American-creed positions (egalitarianism, open and participatory government) and social-democratic positions, a sort of synthesis of creedal passion and the New Deal.
 
Plans | Elizabeth Warren
A big list, and I won't try to sort them out.
Yea, I've always found that the larger the message, the less effective it will be.
Checking EW's site again, I've found this summary:
  • Strengthen Our Democracy
  • Rebuild the Middle Class
  • Equal Justice Under Law
  • End Washington Corruption
  • A Foreign Policy for All
  • Fight for a Green New Deal
It should be easier to follow, though "Foreign Policy for All" looks odd.
 
Until they quit mixing pipe dreams with sensible stuff they shouldn't expect to be taken seriously. Do they want 4 more years of His Flatulence??
 
As I was perusing The National Hispanic Institute's pages, I found something very interesting and relevant here. What it is:
NHI VISION - NHI is a leading organization that fosters future community leaders for the expanding Latino community throughout the United States and Latin America.

MISSION - NHI creates experiences that engage achieving high school and college age youth in community leadership roles that advance our quality of life.
It was apparently started in 1979, and one of its founders had this to say about its founding:
I personally witnessed the decline of leadership after the 1960s. To me, that was very significant, because we were used to a lot of activity in the neighborhood, and a lot of the nonprofit organizations doing that just shut their doors almost overnight. They were tired from the Civil Rights Movement, emotionally and physically.
I've emphasized the last sentence.
 
How history predicts the 2020 election (and the next 40 years)
Misha Leybovich proposes a cyclic theory much like Steven Skowronek's, but with more president types:
  • Transformer: Founder of the Era, from Party A.
  • Continuer: Sidekick from Party A carrying the torch.
  • Triangulator: Party B adjusting.
  • Reimaginer: Party A’s second wind.
  • Precursor: Party B’s next Era preview.
  • Ender: Party A winding down the Era.
The next President of the United States will be a transformational progressive. This person will shape American politics for the next 40 years. Here’s why.

...
I started by framing elections in terms of disruptive cycles, and which presidents represented a transformational era change. The ones who defined the political conversation for the next several decades. Going backwards, it seems like the consensus is: Reagan (1980), FDR (1932), TR (~1900), Lincoln (1860), Jackson (1828), and Washington (1788).
He then filled in the blanks, Skowronek fashion. He also gave one-word names to the eras, eras that roughly correspond to party systems.

Founding Era (40 yrs):
  • Tfm none Washington
  • Ctn F JAdams
  • Tra DR Jefferson
  • Rei DR Madison
  • Prc DR Monroe
  • End DR JQAdams
Populist Era (32 yrs):
  • Tfm D Jackson
  • Ctn D VanBuren
  • Tra W WHarrison, Tyler
  • Rei D Polk
  • Prc W Taylor, Fillmore
  • End D Pierce
  • End D Buchanan
Realignment Era (40 yrs):
  • Tfm R Lincoln, AJohnson
  • Ctn R Grant
  • Ctn R Hayes
  • Ctn R Garfield, Arthur
  • Tra D Cleveland
  • Rei R BHarrison
  • Prc D Cleveland
  • End R McKinley
Progressive Era (32 yrs):
  • Tfm R TRoosevelt
  • Ctn R Taft
  • Tra D WIlson
  • Rei R Harding
  • Rei R Coolidge
  • End R Hoover
Collectivist Era (48 yrs):
  • Tfm D FDRoosevelt
  • Ctn D Truman
  • Tra R Eisenhower
  • Rei D Kennedy
  • Rei D LBJohnson
  • Prc R Nixon, Ford
  • End D Carter
Individualist Era (40 yrs):
  • Tfm R Reagan
  • Ctn R BushI
  • Tra D Clinton
  • Rei R BushII
  • Prc D Obama
  • End R Trump
Humanist Era (?):
  • Tfm D ?
 
Misha Leybovich then looked at the various presidency types. Most of the types were good fits, though Precursors were a poor fit before the Collectivist Era.

He then looked at ratings of presidents. They tended to decline over each era.

Then President Trump.
This post is not about Trump specifically. But he’s part of this overall story, and he’s the news story right now. As I shared my ideas with people, I often heard (sometimes in fear and sometimes in awe), “well maybe Trump is the start of his own Era.”

I don’t believe that is the case. His place in the cycle of history has all the makings of the Ender of the Individualist Era. And if you were to make a movie about the end of that Era, you’d includes lots of scenes of the news saying the stuff the news is saying today.
Then the upcoming era, what ML calls the Humanist Era.
If patterns hold, the next president will be a transformational progressive.

It could happen in 2020, or in 2024 if Trump wins re-election. That would be new for an Ender, but could happen.

This suggests that we’re entering the Seventh Party System. That feels about right. Both parties have deep internal tensions, from realigning coalitions. The next Era/Party System will still probably feature the Dems and GOP as the major parties. But what each represents may change soonish.

I chose Humanist to label the next Era, because I think the conversation may be about what to do with people as tech progresses at an exponential rate and the impact of climate change grows.
 
Plutocracy not oligarchy. The wealthy here have influence but no direct power.

A plutocracy (Greek: πλοῦτος, ploutos, 'wealth' + κράτος, kratos, 'power') or plutarchy is a society that is ruled or controlled by people of great wealth or income. The first known use of the term in English dates from 1631.[1] Unlike systems such as democracy, capitalism, socialism or anarchism, plutocracy is not rooted in an established political philosophy. Plutocracy is linked to the term dynastic wealth. The concept of plutocracy may be advocated by the wealthy classes of a society in an indirect or surreptitious fashion since the term itself is almost always used in a pejorative sense.

Oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία (oligarkhía); from ὀλίγος (olígos), meaning 'few', and ἄρχω (arkho), meaning 'to rule or to command')[1][2][3] is a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people. These people may be distinguished by nobility, wealth, education or corporate, religious, political, or military control. Such states are often controlled by families who typically pass their influence from one generation to the next, but inheritance is not a necessary condition for the application of this term.
Throughout history, oligarchies have often been tyrannical, relying on public obedience or oppression to exist. Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as meaning rule by the rich,[4] for which another term commonly used today is plutocracy. In the early 20th century Robert Michels developed the theory that democracies, as all large organizations, have a tendency to turn into oligarchies. In his "Iron law of oligarchy" he suggests that the necessary division of labor in large organizations leads to the establishment of a ruling class mostly concerned with protecting their own power.
This was already recognized by the Athenians in the fourth century BCE: after the restoration of democracy from oligarchical coups, they used the drawing of lots for selecting government officers to counteract that tendency toward oligarchy in government.[5][page needed] They drew lots from large groups of adult volunteers to pick civil servants performing judicial, executive, and administrative functions (archai, boulē, and hēliastai).[6] They even used lots for posts, such as judges and jurors in the political courts (nomothetai), which had the power to overrule the Assembly.[7]
 
Return to progressive sanity? You must be kidding.

Some people act as if we have same past where all was well, just, and fair. It has not existed yet.

The Russian experiment failed. The Chinese experiment failed but China rose with western investment and technology.

If anything China is an oligarchy maintained by brutal social control and surveillance of all aspects of citizens.

It does look like the growling divide will lead to pitch forks and angry people in the street, rebellion.

France has never worked, regular demonstrations. Scanavino countries have seemed to successfully integrate social welfare and security with free market capitalism. It can be done.

Those at the top settle for less in the interest of stability.

The wealthy here need to look at it as enlightened self interest. Instability unrest ultimately puts their lifestyles at risk.
 
Return to progressive sanity? You must be kidding.

Some people act as if we have same past where all was well, just, and fair. It has not existed yet.

The Russian experiment failed. The Chinese experiment failed but China rose with western investment and technology.

If anything China is an oligarchy maintained by brutal social control and surveillance of all aspects of citizens.

Counterpoint: you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and get all your information from the US state department's approved (or directly funded) sources.
 
Return to progressive sanity? You must be kidding.

Some people act as if we have same past where all was well, just, and fair. It has not existed yet.

The Russian experiment failed. The Chinese experiment failed but China rose with western investment and technology.

If anything China is an oligarchy maintained by brutal social control and surveillance of all aspects of citizens.

Counterpoint: you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and get all your information from the US state department's approved (or directly funded) sources.

When has there been a progressive paradise? The Saivite experiment was equality be decree, which failed miserably. Humans naturally fall into hierarchical power structures. I have seen it evolve often enough.

Regardless of the system the primary question is about stability and decision making. How conflicts are resolved. It is the same issue socialist, capitalist, communist or whatever.

Under stability is how well the bottom lives. That is what we are confronted with. Do we cap the top? We see checks and balances failing in congress right now.

Stability id not a trivial question. Maoism led to the Cultural Revolution with chaos, destruction, and famine. From someone who has interfaced with Chinese busness and govt the thing they are most terrified of is another instabilkity, hence th draconian control.

The govt caped income in general for the top athletes. It was only recently top world athletes were allowed to generally profit from earnings. They were not permitted to pay for their own trainers. Training was by the state, as such earnings went to the state. That is one way.


The American progressives focus on the wealthy businesses and investors. What about pro athletes and Hollywood actors, do they deserve to get onscenly rich for what they do while teachers struggle?

The question is far more complicated than simple sloganeering.

We are going to create fairness by..? These debates on the forum never get to actual workable solutions including the entore system of compensation and work. The processive answer is tax the 'bad guys' out of existence, Then what? Hasn't worked yet.

Orwell's Animal Farm parody of the Russian Revolution. The farm animals overthrow the farmer. The animals that took power were worse than the farmer. That is how I view progressives, including Sanders. FYI I am a centrist independent. I look at issues based on merits without ideology. How does it work.

The left and the right are both ideological and equally fucked up.

I have yet to hear anywhere well thought out reasoned solutions.

Let me know if you see one. Solutions that are more than a paragraph.
 
Things are going to change. Younger cohorts, Millennials, Generations, X, Y and Z are not happy with today's robber baron, gilded age economics that benefit the top 10% and especially the top 1% and big corporations. We now have the GOP and Trump vowing to eliminate ACA, slash Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and everything else that they can slash. This is not going over big with many people. The GOP hates raising minimum wage, and many parts of rural America are hollowing out, banks and hospitals closing down, family farms failing, towns become ghost towns. I see no way this can go on without a backlash in the future as young people start voting and supporting more of a Scandinavian model that this insane supply side monstrosity that gave us Kansas, Louisiana and failed Southern states kept afloat by Uncle Sugar's largess. This madness cannot go on forever.
 
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