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Obama immigration executive order watch party

In the meantime, should you have something of substance to add, feel free to do so.


You've typed a lot of words, Max, but haven't provided substance of your own. You have repeatedly characterized Obama's actions as unlawful, yet when pressed to prove they are in fact illegal have backed off that characterization.


Now you're justifying your own ad hominem attacks.
This mirrors a lot of the right wing attacks. I believe Ted Cruz has characterized his actions akin to building concentration camps.
 
In the meantime, should you have something of substance to add, feel free to do so.


You've typed a lot of words, Max, but haven't provided substance of your own. You have repeatedly characterized Obama's actions as unlawful, yet when pressed to prove they are in fact illegal have backed off that characterization.

Unsupported assertion. When pressed, I pointed out to you to read my comments precisely. To my knowledge I did not say that on immigration they were 'legal' or 'illegal', but I did point out that question is open. None the less, all the other characterizations I do not believe are open.

Now you're justifying your own ad hominem attacks.

Whatever. Now do you have anything of substance?
 
What I’ve said in the past remains true, which is until Congress passes a new law, then I am constrained in terms of what I am able to do....the reason that these deportations are taking place is, Congress said, “you have to enforce these laws.” They fund the hiring of officials at the department that’s charged with enforcing. And I cannot ignore those laws any more than I could ignore, you know, any of the other laws that are on the books. (3/16/14)

He is still constrained. Unless Congress passes a new law, this delay is just a temporary delay. It is not permanent. It is not a road to citizenship. Those changes will take an act of Congress. All Obama can do is say to a particular group of people, in effect, "You may still be deported eventually, but you are not the focus of our efforts. If you register so that you'll be at risk of being more easily identified when a Republican president assumes what maxparrish would call the powers of an emperor, then you don't have to worry about being deported right away so long as you pay taxes and stay out of trouble."

Would you explain how, under Obama's new theory of selective governance, he is "constrained"? If he had suspend deportations for 5 million, why not most of the 11 or 12 million? It he can issue green cards to some, why not all? If he can refuse to apprehend border crossers, or tell the border officers to withdraw, then how "constrained" is he? The ONLY thing he may not have the power to do is grant citizenship, although short of impeachment who is going to stop him? You don't get it; for the first time in history we have a President that is challenging the very basis of separation of powers and unless the courts step in you are seeing a new kind of one man rule (the hallmark of the death of all Republics).

And Poo. This is not a temporary delay, its an indefinite suspension of deportation for 5 million illegals, and the granting of green cards so as to further 'legitimize' their self-imporation. Whether or not they will become permanent is theoretically an open issue BUT it likely will be. So "All Obama can do is to say to a particular group of people is "Contrary to what I said previously, I can and have shielded you from deportation in spite of the fact you broke the law. And as a reward, I will be giving you a green card so you can sink more roots into this country, heck, you even now qualify for many welfare services."

Obama has already admitted one would have to be Emperor to ignore the law

He's not ignoring any law. Congress is the one that says he can only deport a small percentage of illegals in a given year. Congress is the one that instructed the president to prioritize what groups should be deported. Obama is just going along with what Congress said.

He is certainly ignoring the intent of the law, and refusing to faithfully execute it. Although I already exploded your fantasy earlier, this has nothing to do with "prioritization" (which does not require legalization) NOR Obama's merely carrying out the will of Congress.

And try as I might, I see nothing in the 1996 law that instructs the President to deport only a small number every year. As you made that claim without support, please provide that clause. In the meantime, please be aware that no one, till Obama's change of views, thought a President would intentionally foster illegal immigration by invoking 'prosecutoral discretion' of the attorney general so as to shield illegals. The law defines what is illegal and deportable, and excepting for prosecutoral discretion on individual and special circumstances, it intends (as happens in all nations) that illegals be deported. Congress and public understanding on this issue is not in dispute.

Yet we now have an attorney general and president that has refused to faithfully carry out the law's intent. Hence, either one of them is worthy of impeachment.

- he has already demonstrated his own actions to be lawless.

You made that up, right?
No more than I made up the numerous times it has been documented in Obamacare and other actions.

And he has already demonstrated that he is a prolific liar and enemy of the Republic...

Again, you're just making that up.
When a President intentionally choses to side will illegal aliens over the American people and undermine the intent of the law passed by the people's Congress and signed by President Clinton, you are any enemy of the Republic.

In any case, none of your quotations support your thesis.
Wrong. But then, I am not sure you understand my thesis.
 
When a President intentionally choses to side will illegal aliens over the American people and undermine the intent of the law passed by the people's Congress and signed by President Clinton, you are any enemy of the Republic.


This is so adorably naive.


The 10 to 12 million "illegal" immigrants have been here for decades. They're as much a part of our economy as the folks who work at fast food restaurants and Wal Mart. The notion that they're somehow our "enemy" is laughable. They're not our enemies. They are our employees. They've been so for a generation or more.
 
Here Ford, something to load up and play, with yourself:

10: Print "(Max) Unsupported assertion. When pressed, I pointed out to you to read my comments precisely. To my knowledge I did not say that on immigration they were 'legal' or 'illegal', but I did point out that question is open. None the less, all the other characterizations I do not believe are open."

20: Print "(Ford) Support your assertion that what Obama has done is unlawful."

30: Print "(Max) Please read my assertion again for comprehension"

40: Goto 10

Don't press CTRL Break or ESC till you get it.
 
By max :When a President intentionally choses to side will illegal aliens over the American people and undermine the intent of the law passed by the people's Congress and signed by President Clinton, you are any enemy of the Republic.
Oh my goodness! Max, you are projecting on "the American people". "American people" are all of immigrant origin and millions are of Hispanic origin and certainly not pulling a drama queen over their fellow Hispanics, illegal immigrants, benefiting of Obama's executive order. Plus I am worried about your BP getting too elevated.;)
 
When a President intentionally chooses to side will illegal aliens over the American people and undermine the intent of the law passed by the people's Congress and signed by President Clinton, you are any enemy of the Republic.

This is so adorably naive.

The 10 to 12 million "illegal" immigrants have been here for decades. They're as much a part of our economy as the folks who work at fast food restaurants and Wal Mart. The notion that they're somehow our "enemy" is laughable. They're not our enemies. They are our employees. They've been so for a generation or more.
Actually, in the context of my comments to WIP on Obama's action, the enemy is referring to the President. That said, any illegal occupation of national territory by foreign persons is a form of invasion, and as such are technically "enemies of the Republic".

That they are illegally in the economy, and likely draining some social services for themselves or their children, is not in dispute. That they have illegally benefited for up to 25 years (since the last promise to the American people in 1986 of "a one-time-only amnesty"), and jumped the line, is hardly a recommendation for their staying. Unlike their law abiding countrymen, they have illegally benefited greatly. Therefore, booting them out and telling them their the illegal run is over and to get their ass to the back of the line sounds more than fair - especially when they should be breaking rocks in orange jump suits in the Arizona desert.
 
Man, obama sure got max's john birch panties all in a twist.
 
Actually, in the context of my comments to WIP on Obama's action, the enemy is referring to the President.

Ah...'Murica. The land where a simple disagreement over policy can lead to people calling the President "the enemy." :rolleyes: I guess you figure Reagan was the enemy, too, huh?


That said, any illegal occupation of national territory by foreign persons is a form of invasion, and as such are technically "enemies of the Republic".

Except is is neither an occupation nor an invasion. The people you imagine as "enemies of the Republic" (well, aside from Presidents) may be here illegally, but they are not exactly uninvited or unwanted. We paid them to come here, pay them to stay, and enjoy the fruits (sometimes quite literally) of their labor.

If you want to punish those who have "benefited greatly," then I suggest you don an orange jump suit and head on down here to AZ yourself, 'cause we got lots of rocks waiting for ya.
 
I believe in this country we have a separate branch that decides the legality of actions.

Take it to the courts Republicans.

Fuck trying to fix one problem why you have all this power.

Just play politics and waste time.

Your masters, the rich, are getting richer. There are no problems. All there is is politics and the rolling on your belly to maintain power and privilege.
 
Good, we agree on something. Now if you can address the substance of my previous post, that would be great.

The substance of "Probably not."?

Obviously, I was referring to the post before that, or the one before that, or the one before that. But leave it to dismal to be intentionally obtuse in order to avoid addressing anything of substance.
 
Actually, in the context of my comments to WIP on Obama's action, the enemy is referring to the President. That said, any illegal occupation of national territory by foreign persons is a form of invasion, and as such are technically "enemies of the Republic".
I believe one could make a stronger case that anyone who claims the POTUS has earned an assassination is an "enemy of the Republic".
That they are illegally in the economy, and likely draining some social services for themselves or their children, is not in dispute.
Yes it is in dispute.
 

I have not asked any questions on the legality, in a technical sense, of Obama's actions. My issue is whether or not Obama, legally or otherwise, violated the principles of separation of powers, and abused his power by failing to execute the laws faithfully. As I pointed out earlier, many a fine dictatorship's actions in history has been as "legal" as Obama's flirtations with autocracy.

Providing the hand crafted justification from Holder's Dept of Justice is interesting - as are some other legal commentaries I have read. After doing so, I remain ambivalent on the question. I also do not care - the issue is did Obama use his power justly and in the interests of the law. The answer is no.
 

This is true. You haven't asked any questions about the legality of the Obama's executive order. You've out and out claimed they were illegal and immoral and worthy of a death sentence.

My issue is whether or not Obama, legally or otherwise, violated the principles of separation of powers, and abused his power by failing to execute the laws faithfully. As I pointed out earlier, many a fine dictatorship's actions in history has been as "legal" as Obama's flirtations with autocracy.

Providing the hand crafted justification from Holder's Dept of Justice is interesting - as are some other legal commentaries I have read. After doing so, I remain ambivalent on the question. I also do not care - the issue is did Obama use his power justly and in the interests of the law. The answer is no.

Yes, you don't care so much you've said he deserves to be murdered.
 

I have not asked any questions on the legality, in a technical sense, of Obama's actions. My issue is whether or not Obama, legally or otherwise, violated the principles of separation of powers, and abused his power by failing to execute the laws faithfully. As I pointed out earlier, many a fine dictatorship's actions in history has been as "legal" as Obama's flirtations with autocracy.
Nice moving target there. Oh.. it doesn't matter if it is illegal or not because I'll passive aggressively go back to being wildly aggressive about how illegal it is.

Providing the hand crafted justification from Holder's Dept of Justice is interesting - as are some other legal commentaries I have read. After doing so, I remain ambivalent on the question. I also do not care - the issue is did Obama use his power justly and in the interests of the law. The answer is no.
This is good too. "Pretty crafty of you offering evidence to support the position the decisions aren't illegal. But I don't need to address it because in the end, it is all illegal."
 

Are these the same people who were telling Obama he didn't have the power to do this back when he kept saying that was the case?

Or did he get rid of them and find some people that said he could?

No idea.

Perhaps you could locate the OLC opinion to which you refer (the one that contradicts the one I linked to) and link to it, so we can see....
 
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