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Metaphysics is a self delusional anadyne

All that exists to a subjective mind trapped somewhere are the experiences of that mind.

We are subjective minds that seem to have a body at our control. We know the subjective and nothing else.

We know the experience of the table. It's appearance. It's hardness. It's weight and mass. These are all experiences.

Never is there anything but an experience.

That there may be something objective behind some of the experiences and not others is a subjective hypothesis.
 
Grendel said:
Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
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Anandyne? I have trouble with oer than simple statements.

Logic and reasoning is metaphysics. Thought forms used systematically.
 
untermensche said:
We are subjective minds that seem to have a body at our control. We know the subjective and nothing else.
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By saying 'We are ....' you're giving the 'mind' the status of an entity. I'm saying that the mind is just a dimension (a measurement) The brain is just a mechanical organ. Only our recursive opinion is 'mind' and that's not material or physical

What I'm really saying, I suppose, is that 'We aren't', not that 'We are'

Greg :)
 
Grendel said:
untermensche said:
We are subjective minds that seem to have a body at our control. We know the subjective and nothing else.
Click to expand...

By saying 'We are ....' you're giving the 'mind' the status of an entity. I'm saying that the mind is just a dimension (a measurement) The brain is just a mechanical organ. Only our recursive opinion is 'mind' and that's not material or physical

What I'm really saying, I suppose, is that 'We aren't', not that 'We are'

Greg :)
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What are you concluding the mind is just a dimension with?

We are encased minds.

My mind (me) is forcing my hands to type these words to communicate with another mind.
 
Grendel said:
Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
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The OP is the poster's own anodyne.

And while it is not verbose it's still idiotic.

What's metaphysical are any theory that you don't actually know it's true. The whole of science falls into that category. The whole of it. The only things you know are your subjective experience, your qualia etc. Not much but that's all you know and so that's the only thing that's not metaphysical.

That being said, pretty much all metaphysical theories are mostly crap. But I suspect that you should be able to find one or even a few interesting ideas inside each metaphysical theory. Even religion isn't entirely zany. Mostly zany but but not entirely.

We will need metaphysics as long as we're unable to know what is real.
EB
 
Grendel said:
untermensche said:
We are subjective minds that seem to have a body at our control. We know the subjective and nothing else.
Click to expand...

By saying 'We are ....' you're giving the 'mind' the status of an entity. I'm saying that the mind is just a dimension (a measurement) The brain is just a mechanical organ. Only our recursive opinion is 'mind' and that's not material or physical

What I'm really saying, I suppose, is that 'We aren't', not that 'We are'

Greg :)
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Say it but you'd need to bring convincing arguments on the table and you're not.

The only thing we know exists is our mind, or our subjective experience, our qualia etc. All the rest is putative, including other people's own mind. I think therefore I am and since I know I think therefore I know I am, where "I" is just the thinking thing as it appear to itself and only as it appears to itself. All the rest is putative.
EB
 
Grendel said:
Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
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Ok, I read the blog you linked entirely. It's mostly true but not quite. The basic facts are correct but the conclusion is hilariously idiotic. All it shows is that our subjective experience is broadly consistent with a scientific view of the world. But we didn't wait for science to see that because our subjective experience has always been consistent with the objective world as we have always thought of it. That's true today and that was true at the time of Cro-Magnon. We have always known that the mind seems to disappear if you smash the skull and the brain inside. So nothing really new here. Only more details and the more details we get the more we realise, as we did progressively throughout history, that the objective world has no explanatory power to solve the mystery of our subjective experience. The scientific picture we have today is remarkably precise and detailed and yet we still can't see where our subjective experience is explained as such.

And fundamentally, we understand since Descartes, and to some extent since Plato, that our subjective experience is the only thing we know. The rest is smoke and mirrors. Science has no ontological powers. Science is a description of the spatial and temporal regularities of our subjective experience. It's epistemological. It's basically a picture. What the world looks like from the perspective of our subjective experience. What there is really behind this image is really anybody's guess. Metaphysics. Which explains the term. Physics is the image. The appearance. Metaphysics is about what should exist beyond the image but that we don't know shit about. So what's left that we know is just our personal, private subjective experience. We know it so it's definitely real and it's real as we know it. The quale of redness is really as it appears to us. Pain is as it appears to us. That's not metaphysical. Science is also not metaphysical as long as you understand that it's just an image, a reading on an apparatus. If you start to think of scientific theories as telling us what is the ontology of the world, then you're telling yourself smoke and mirror fables.

But you sure do as you please.
EB
 
Grendel said:
steve_bank said:
Logic and reasoning is metaphysics.
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Wouldn't logic and reasoning simply be the assembling of patterns?
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Actually, that's an interesting point. Our logical intuitions are just part of our subjective experience. Logic, however, is a metaphysical concept. It's what we imagine exists that would be consistent with our logical intuitions. And then there are methods of logic, which are inevitably metaphysical theories about logic. Most of them are crap, no even consistent with our logical intuitions.

Our logical intuitions certainly have something to do with patterns. I suspect that there's not much difference between how our visual sense works and how our sense of logic works. And our logical intuitions are just as reliable as our visual percepts. But that's our logical intuitions, not logic itself. Logic is to our logical intuitions as the actual tree must be to our visual percept of the tree, and both what we think of the tree and we think of logic are metaphysical constructs. Nice to have, though, and useful. So, nothing like anodyne.
EB
 
fromderinside said:
So a being who evolves neural architecture for assembling patterns is just not relevant to beings processing patterns then because intuitions covers it. Not very rational.
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Can't parse that. Gibberish in, gibberish out?
EB
 
Speakpigeon said:
Grendel said:
Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
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Ok, I read the blog you linked entirely. It's mostly true but not quite. The basic facts are correct but the conclusion is hilariously idiotic.
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Actually I never read it. I just judged the book by it's cover. But you have to remember that the writers of that blog are no where near as clever as you, so you need to cut them a little slack.
 
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