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Banning TikTok from the US?

Steven Mnuchin, Peter Navarro feuded over TikTok in front of Trump before he signed executive order - CNNPolitics
Trump advisers Mnuchin and Navarro fought over the fate of TikTok inside the Oval Office - The Washington Post
Last week, as leaders in Silicon Valley, China and Washington raced to seal the fate of one of the world’s fastest-growing social media companies, a shouting match broke out in the Oval Office between two of President Trump’s top advisers.

In front of Trump, trade adviser Peter Navarro and other aides late last week, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin began arguing that the Chinese-owned video-sharing service TikTok should be sold to a U.S. company. Mnuchin had talked several times to Microsoft’s senior leaders and was confident that he had rallied support within the administration for a sale to the tech giant on national security grounds.

Navarro pushed back, demanding an outright ban of TikTok, while accusing Mnuchin of being soft on China, the people said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss private discussions freely. The treasury secretary appeared taken aback, they said.
LOL :D

TikTok To Sue Trump Administration On President's Executive Order Ban : NPR
noting
Trump Signs Executive Order That Will Effectively Ban Use Of TikTok In the U.S. : NPR

Trump TikTok, WeChat ban echoes other countries, including China
  • President Donald Trump issued an executive order on Thursday ordering U.S. firms to stop doing business with TikTok and WeChat.
  • Both Google and Apple have removed apps from their marketplaces in certain countries in the past in response to foreign government requests, including TikTok and WeChat in India earlier this year.
  • Overall, Apple removed 851 apps in the year between July 2018 and June 2019, and the vast majority of requests came from China.
 
TikTok collected data from mobile devices to track Android users: report | TheHill
Video app TikTok, which has come under intense scrutiny from the U.S. government, sidestepped Google policy and collected user-specific data from Android phones that allowed the company to track users without allowing them to opt out, according to an analysis conducted by The Wall Street Journal.

The report released Tuesday comes on the heels of President Trump signing an executive order that targets Beijing-based ByteDance, the parent company of TikTok. The order essentially gives the Chinese tech company 45 days to divest from the app or see it banned in the U.S.

Sort of like
 The Game (Star Trek: The Next Generation) - "In this episode, Riker returns from a vacation on Risa with a game that he is eager to share with the crew. The game is psychotropically addictive, and it quickly turns the Enterprise crew into a mind-controlled pawn of the Ktarians, who are using the devices to gain control of Starfleet."
The Game (episode) | Memory Alpha | Fandom - "Wesley Crusher visits the Enterprise only to see everyone behaving strangely on account of an addictive, mind-controlling game."
"Star Trek: The Next Generation" The Game (TV Episode 1991) - IMDb - "Wesley Crusher returns to the Enterprise on vacation from the Academy only to discover a mysterious alien game infiltrating and controlling the crew."
 
TikTok will spin off into a separate company, partly owned by Oracle - The Verge - Sep 15
Oracle plans take an ownership stake in a newly formed TikTok corporation as part of the recently announced deal, the Financial Times reports. The new arrangement will not cleave off TikTok regionally, but it will create a separate corporate entity for the app, in which Oracle will take a minority stake. Oracle will also ensure that data from American users is stored and processed in the United States, per the recommendations of the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS).

TikTok was already headquartered in California, with nominal independence from ByteDance’s China operation. The main change made by the deal is Oracle’s minority stake in the company, the size of which is still unclear. But while Oracle’s stake makes TikTok a more legally distinct corporation, it’s still likely that the resulting company will rely on algorithms and applications developed and deployed from China.

US will ban WeChat and TikTok downloads on Sunday - CNN - Sep 18
The Commerce Department plans to restrict access to TikTok and WeChat on Sunday as the Trump administration's executive orders against the two apps are set to take effect.

The Department said Friday that as of Sunday, any moves to distribute or maintain WeChat or TikTok on an app store will be prohibited. Apple and Google didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.
Existing versions will still work, but they can't be updated.
 
TikTok set to IPO globally if Trump approves deal with Oracle, Walmart - Sep 17
  • President Trump is expected to decide on TikTok’s fate in the U.S. in the next 24-36 hours, sources told CNBC’s David Faber.
  • ByteDance plans to IPO TikTok’s global business.
  • Walmart is expected to partner with Oracle in a deal where Oracle would own less than 20% of the social media app, according to the sources.

Oracle? WalMart? Those companies don't look like very good fits for an app like TikTok. WalMart is very familiar, but I'll have to discuss Oracle in more detail. About  Oracle Corporation,
Oracle Corporation is an American multinational computer technology corporation headquartered in Redwood Shores, California. The company sells database software and technology, cloud engineered systems, and enterprise software products—particularly its own brands of database management systems. In 2019, Oracle was the second-largest software company by revenue and market capitalization.[5]

The company also develops and builds tools for database development and systems of middle-tier software, enterprise resource planning (ERP) software, Human Capital Management (HCM) software, customer relationship management (CRM) software, and supply chain management (SCM) software.[6]
In short, software for behind-the-scenes operations of big businesses and other large organizations.
 
Trump agrees to deal in which TikTok would partner with Oracle and Walmart
  • Trump said has given his blessing to a deal in which Oracle and Walmart would partner with TikTok in the U.S.
  • Trump said the new company will likely be incorporated in Texas.
  • The deal would prevent a U.S. ban on TikTok which was scheduled to go into effect Sunday.
  • The outcome could boost Oracle’s position as a company that can handle challenging computing workloads and help to resolve a geopolitical dispute between the U.S. and China.

...
Oracle already provides cloud infrastructure to online video services 8x8 and Zoom, among other clients, although Amazon, Microsoft and other companies picked up more cloud revenue than Oracle in 2019, according to estimates from industry research company Gartner.

Microsoft had sought to acquire TikTok’s operations in the U.S. Canada, Australia and New Zealand, with Walmart as a partner, but on Sunday said ByteDance had decided not to do that deal.
So Oracle is already in businesses somewhat like TikTok.
 
What's the worst possible threat which TikTok poses? hypothetically


Or any other company. Or China. Other than a normal military threat/attack.
 
TikTok Told Moderators: Suppress Posts by the “Ugly” and Poor - "TikTok Told Moderators to Suppress Posts by “Ugly” People and the Poor to Attract New Users"
On TikTok, livestreamed military movements and natural disasters, video that “defamed civil servants,” and other material that might threaten “national security” has been suppressed alongside videos showing rural poverty, slums, beer bellies, and crooked smiles. One document goes so far as to instruct moderators to scan uploads for cracked walls and “disreputable decorations” in users’ own homes — then to effectively punish these poorer TikTok users by artificially narrowing their audiences.

...
Under this policy, TikTok moderators were explicitly told to suppress uploads from users with flaws both congenital and inevitable. “Abnormal body shape,” “ugly facial looks,” dwarfism, and “obvious beer belly,” “too many wrinkles,” “eye disorders,” and many other “low quality” traits are all enough to keep uploads out of the algorithmic fire hose. Videos in which “the shooting environment is shabby and dilapidated,” including but “not limited to … slums, rural fields” and “dilapidated housing” were also systematically hidden from new users, though “rural beautiful natural scenery could be exempted,” the document notes.

The document, presented in both English and Chinese, advised TikTok’s moderators that for videos shot in someone’s house with “no obvious slummy charactor [sic],” special care should be given to check for slummy features such as a “crack on the wall” or “old and disreputable decorations.” The mere appearance of residential disrepair or crooked teeth in the frame, the document shows, could mean the difference between worldwide distribution and relative invisibility.

The justification here, as with “ugly” uploaders, was again that TikTok should retain an aspirational air to attract and hold onto new users: “This kind of environment is not that suitable for new users for being less fancy and appealing.”
Looking for this sort of stuff seems like an impressive moderation challenge. Are they employing artificial-vision software for initial screening?

Also,
The rules go far beyond the usual Beijing bugbears like Tiananmen Square and Falun Gong. Crucially, these rules could be easily interpreted to proscribe essential components of political speech by classifying them as dangerous or defamatory.

Any number of the document’s rules could be invoked to block discussion of a wide range of topics embarrassing to government authorities: “Defamation … towards civil servants, political or religious leaders” as well as towards “the families of related leaders” has been, under the policy, punishable with a terminated stream and a daylong suspension. Any broadcasts deemed by ByteDance’s moderators to be “endangering national security” or even “national honor and interests” were punished with a permanent ban, as were “uglification or distortion of local or other countries’ history,” with the “Tiananmen Square incidents” cited as only one of three real world examples. A “Personal live broadcast about state organs such as police office, military etc,” would knock your stream offline for three days, while documenting military or police activity would get you kicked off for that day (would-be protestors, take note).
 
"Users that disparaged TikTok via livestream were to be suspended for three days, and the ones who promote TikTok’s competitors could be banned forever."
The content moderation documents obtained by The Intercept Brasil and The Intercept contain indications that standards enforced on TikTok livestreams originate in China. One document, while in English, contains clunky phrasing suggestive of machine translation, as well as references to a Chinese language font embedded in the file itself, while the second contains large portions of both Chinese and English text. The TikTok livestream policy guide details 64 possible infractions organized into 13 different categories, each corresponding to a specific penalty. The categories range from the obvious common-sense prohibitions (“Juvenile Improper Behavior”) to the prudish and baffling: TikTok users who “Give the finger on purpose over twice” will have their stream terminated and their account banned for a day, while “disrupting national unity,” left undefined, comes with a permanent suspension.
So they did autotranslation? Can't they find anyone fluent in both Chinese and English that they can give the appropriate corporate security clearance?
 
TikTok Told Moderators: Suppress Posts by the “Ugly” and Poor - "TikTok Told Moderators to Suppress Posts by “Ugly” People and the Poor to Attract New Users"
On TikTok, livestreamed military movements and natural disasters, video that “defamed civil servants,” and other material that might threaten “national security” has been suppressed alongside videos showing rural poverty, slums, beer bellies, and crooked smiles. One document goes so far as to instruct moderators to scan uploads for cracked walls and “disreputable decorations” in users’ own homes — then to effectively punish these poorer TikTok users by artificially narrowing their audiences.

...
Under this policy, TikTok moderators were explicitly told to suppress uploads from users with flaws both congenital and inevitable. “Abnormal body shape,” “ugly facial looks,” dwarfism, and “obvious beer belly,” “too many wrinkles,” “eye disorders,” and many other “low quality” traits are all enough to keep uploads out of the algorithmic fire hose. Videos in which “the shooting environment is shabby and dilapidated,” including but “not limited to … slums, rural fields” and “dilapidated housing” were also systematically hidden from new users, though “rural beautiful natural scenery could be exempted,” the document notes.

The document, presented in both English and Chinese, advised TikTok’s moderators that for videos shot in someone’s house with “no obvious slummy charactor [sic],” special care should be given to check for slummy features such as a “crack on the wall” or “old and disreputable decorations.” The mere appearance of residential disrepair or crooked teeth in the frame, the document shows, could mean the difference between worldwide distribution and relative invisibility.

The justification here, as with “ugly” uploaders, was again that TikTok should retain an aspirational air to attract and hold onto new users: “This kind of environment is not that suitable for new users for being less fancy and appealing.”
Looking for this sort of stuff seems like an impressive moderation challenge. Are they employing artificial-vision software for initial screening?

Also,
The rules go far beyond the usual Beijing bugbears like Tiananmen Square and Falun Gong. Crucially, these rules could be easily interpreted to proscribe essential components of political speech by classifying them as dangerous or defamatory.

Any number of the document’s rules could be invoked to block discussion of a wide range of topics embarrassing to government authorities: “Defamation … towards civil servants, political or religious leaders” as well as towards “the families of related leaders” has been, under the policy, punishable with a terminated stream and a daylong suspension. Any broadcasts deemed by ByteDance’s moderators to be “endangering national security” or even “national honor and interests” were punished with a permanent ban, as were “uglification or distortion of local or other countries’ history,” with the “Tiananmen Square incidents” cited as only one of three real world examples. A “Personal live broadcast about state organs such as police office, military etc,” would knock your stream offline for three days, while documenting military or police activity would get you kicked off for that day (would-be protestors, take note).

We do it in the west as well. We're just dishonest about it. We say everybody is welcome and have equal access to everything, but it's not true. We create distance to the company through upvote mechanics that which, in practice is suppressing content from ugly people.

I have no problems with this and I applaud the honesty. I strongly dislike the wests false pretentions that everybody is equally special and worthy of attention. I can't see any benefit from continually spreading the lie. It only brings negatives like narcissism and a warped sense of how the world works. It creates hippies. One hippie in the world is too many hippies.
 
I'm reminded of a leaked document on Soviet official censorship regulations, from around 1970, and translated and reproduced in the book "Party, State, and Citizen in the Soviet Union: A Collection of Documents".

There is a long list of things that may not be printed without official approval.

Details of trips and speech locations of members of the Politburo, the Soviet Union's top leadership.
The censorship system itself.
"Activities of the organs of state security and intelligence organs including:
treason of the Motherland, spying, terrorist acts, diversons, anti-soviet agitation and propaganda, mass disorder, participation in anti-soviet organizations, illegal departure for abroad, information about facts of the above-mentioned crimes."
Amounts of various sorts of criminality.
Details of prisons like how many people imprisoned and under what conditions.
The number of homeless people.
The number of illiterate people.
Information entailing human victims of accidents, wrecks, serious accidents, and fires, without the permission of the responsible ministry and department.
Info about the consequences of catastrophic earthquakes, tidal waves, floods, and other natural calamities (the general amount of damage to buildings and structures. no. of human victims, damage expressed in money terms).
Info about the number of fires and their victims.
Revenues and budgets for the Soviet Union and its constituent republics (much like US states).
"Calculations of the purchasing power of the ruble and of the hard currency of foreign states."
Details of foreign investments and the income from them.
Income vs. spending for the population.
Information about the preparation for visits abroad by Soviet government delegations, and for visits to the USSR by foreign delegations.
Information about mutual governmental accusations (charges) between the USSR and foreign states, about judicial matters, investigations, arrests, etc.
Info about hostile actions in relation to representatives and citizens of the USSR from the population or responsible figures of foreign states.
"The correlation between the cost price of service for foreign tourists in the USSR and the selling price of tourist trips to the USSR."
Details of the export of military hardware and military assistance.
Details of low morale and poor conditions and poor discipline in the military, and poor relations with civilians.
How many drug addicts.
How many people have certain infectious diseases: cholera, Yersinia plague, typhus, and smallpox.
Details of occupational injuries and illnesses.
Info about the audibility of the radio stations of foreign states in the territory of the USSR.
Info about the duration of the conducting of all-union training assemblies of sportsmen; about the rates of pay of sportsmen; about the money prizes for sportsmen for good results in sport; about the financing, upkeep, and staff of (athletic) teams.
Me: the Soviet Union had the pretension that all its athletes were amateurs, and professional sports are part of the degradation of capitalism. I remember someone being outraged that Soviet-bloc Olympic athletes are professionals. I didn't see how that was a big issue, since the only way to compete in the Olympics is be a de facto professional. I think that the Olympic management ought to drop its pretension that Olympic athletes are all amateurs.
 
Info about the audibility of the radio stations of foreign states in the territory of the USSR.
Info about the duration of the conducting of all-union training assemblies of sportsmen; about the rates of pay of sportsmen; about the money prizes for sportsmen for good results in sport; about the financing, upkeep, and staff of (athletic) teams.
Me: the Soviet Union had the pretension that all its athletes were amateurs, and professional sports are part of the degradation of capitalism. I remember someone being outraged that Soviet-bloc Olympic athletes are professionals. I didn't see how that was a big issue, since the only way to compete in the Olympics is be a de facto professional. I think that the Olympic management ought to drop its pretension that Olympic athletes are all amateurs.

It's doubly funny because of where it comes from, ie the development of modern sportsmanship in the west. It was something the nobility, ie the warrior class did to train for war. Initially non-nobles were explicitly banned from competing. Once we became democratic and had to open it up to the riff-raff we introduced all kinds of bullshit rules to, in practice, prevent poor people from competing. One being that athletes should be amateurs. How this is then, unreflecting, lifted straight into the Soviet Union is interesting.
 
[
It's doubly funny because of where it comes from, ie the development of modern sportsmanship in the west. It was something the nobility, ie the warrior class did to train for war. Initially non-nobles were explicitly banned from competing. Once we became democratic and had to open it up to the riff-raff we introduced all kinds of bullshit rules to, in practice, prevent poor people from competing. One being that athletes should be amateurs. How this is then, unreflecting, lifted straight into the Soviet Union is interesting.

Interesting discussion point.


How can we marry these items with the hope that Olympics can be accessible to any athlete in any country?
 
[
It's doubly funny because of where it comes from, ie the development of modern sportsmanship in the west. It was something the nobility, ie the warrior class did to train for war. Initially non-nobles were explicitly banned from competing. Once we became democratic and had to open it up to the riff-raff we introduced all kinds of bullshit rules to, in practice, prevent poor people from competing. One being that athletes should be amateurs. How this is then, unreflecting, lifted straight into the Soviet Union is interesting.

Interesting discussion point.


How can we marry these items with the hope that Olympics can be accessible to any athlete in any country?

Why would we want to? Isn't the whole point to get the best athletes to compete? If yes, then to professionalize it seems be the smart move. Which is why this is what has happened.

Nobody wants to see a bunch of random normies flail around on court struggling as much as we would. we want to see super humans do super human things on TV and get medals for it.

Me personally, the only sports I can watch without falling asleep is MMA. Everything else is... meh. Everything else I'm watching it and thinking "he took your ball, be a man and punch him in the face, you wanker". So as far as I'm concerned the Olympics is lame.
 
John Oliver ridicules the idea of banning TikTok. Fun video, even for ignorant non-TikTokers like myself. Apparently Google and Meta are pushing for the Ban, NOT because they're worried about protecting Americans' privacy, but because they want a monopoly on subverting that privacy. (Those who want to save TikTok may be relieved that Trump was re-elected: He wanted to ban it 4 years ago, but now promotes himself as its savior.)

I personally use very little social media (assuming IIDB doesn't count!). I am not on Instagram or TikTok; I seldom use Facebook; and I've forgotten the ID and password for the fake Twitter account I set up once. I DO use LINE -- it's VERY popular in Thailand: Is it used in U.S.?
 
I DO use LINE -- it's VERY popular in Thailand: Is it used in U.S.?
Never heard of it.

The features of LINE are very similar to those of Facebook's Messenger. (Does this mean it's just a "messaging app" rather than "social media"?) Google tells me it's very popular in Japan, Thailand, Taiwan and Indonesia. Two new acquaintances here don't exchange phone numbers; they just exchange LINE id's, usually just by one scanning the other's QR code. Most of the young people also use Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.

I know Threads and Bluesky are popular alternatives in the US.

I just read that many top professionals are deserting X for Bluesky.
 
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