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Daniel Penny acquitted in the death of Jordan Neely

We can blame those who never did anything else to improve things since then as well. It's also added to the homeless crisis.

You can blame the likes of Gavin Newsom and criminal reform DAs like George Gascon for making things worse.

I also wonder why Neely's family pretty much abandoned him,

I'm sure there are articles about Neely's family that will shed some light on it. The story will likely be familiar.
 
We as a society have failed our mentally ill and we can at least partially blame the Reagan administration for supporting the closure of so many hospitals for the extremely mentally ill.
Reagan has been dead for 20 years and out of office for almost 35 years!!
Yes, but that is when money for the mentally ill was cut way back and large mental hospitals starting closing during the Regan administration with the support of some of the Republicans in Congress, which is why I said he is partly to blame.Perhaps they didn't intend to do the damage that was done, since they probably lacked any real understanding of what it is like to suffer from a severe brain illness. We can blame those who never did anything else to improve things since then as well. It's also added to the homeless crisis.

I also remember that in NC, where I was living during that time, mental hospitals were going to be mostly replaced by public health nurses that specialized in psychiatry. The idea was to visit and check on the mentally ill, do assessments and make sure they were taking their meds. Obviously, that didn't work out. Instead, we now have cities full of mentally ill folks, who are often homeless with nobody to help them. Most of these folks are harmless, but there are always a small percentage who would be labeled as "criminally insane", and even if they aren't dangerous, they should be cared for properly, instead of living on the street with little or no help at all.

I also wonder why Neely's family pretty much abandoned him, but now they are outraged over what the jury's verdict. If I had a son who was that sick, I'd do my best to get him help and offer him food, and financial help at the very least. I don't know more than what I've read but it seems like Neely's family failed him as well.



https://obrag.org/2023/04/how-reaga...-institutions-led-to-the-homelessness-crisis/

As a psychologist who began practicing nearly 40 years ago, I’ve seen a significant shift in the care of the mentally ill since the mid-1980s — and it hasn’t been for the better.

After the deinstitutionalization movement began in California in the 1960s, many state mental health hospitals closed, forcing many folks who needed a lot of care onto the streets.

Without those facilities, many mentally ill people ended up in jails and prisons which are not set up to provide safe, compassionate care for brain illnesses. But in 1981, when President d Reagan deinstitutionalized the mentally ill and emptied the psychiatric hospitals into so-called “community” clinics, the problem got worse.

Most of those who were deinstitutionalized from the nation’s public psychiatric hospitals were severely mentally ill. Between 50 percent and 60 percent were diagnosed with schizophrenia. The fact that many of these people struggled with various forms of brain dysfunction was not recognized back then. With so many advances in brain science, experts now know that we need to be able to coordinate care in residential facilities, especially if we are housing people at $4,000 per day in a local medical hospital.

People with severe mental illness need to be supported every step of the way. They need to be housed with compassion and supplied with medications, state of the art brain health therapies, nutritious food that supports brain health and extracurricular activities that give them a chance to live meaningful lives. They need to receive quality care with programs like art and music therapy, equestrian therapy, job training and volunteer opportunities to become actively engaged members of society.
Why is federal funding for it even important? The states themselves have plenty of money and can set their own rules and regulations.
 
What exactly do people think Mr. Neely's family should have done? I ask because once someone is an adult, it is pretty hard to get a mentally unstable person to agree or even adhere to treatment. Involuntary commitment is difficult to legally accomplish, let alone emotionally.
 
I also wonder why Neely's family pretty much abandoned him,
I'm sure there are articles about Neely's family that will shed some light on it. The story will likely be familiar.
How familiar are you with mental illnesses and difficulties families have with members that suffer from mental illness?

Why is it that the families are never questioned when someone gets cancer, and they die of cancer. Where was the family? Why didn't they do more?

The Tswizzles of the world love to judge the fuck out of people they don't know who have dealt with situations they are completely ignorant about and haven't a clue on how to address or fix. It is such pretentious bullshit.
 
What exactly do people think Mr. Neely's family should have done? I ask because once someone is an adult, it is pretty hard to get a mentally unstable person to agree or even adhere to treatment. Involuntary commitment is difficult to legally accomplish, let alone emotionally.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/j...ignore-americas-fatherhood-crisis/ar-AA1vBCqi

Okay, I know the guy quoted in the article is a minister and I know the interview was done on one of the Fox News stations, hopefully, just one of the local stations that is very different from the political one, but the guy makes a lot of good points. Neely's father was never there for him, not even when he was a kid, who witnessed his mother's murder.

Then I recently learned that Jordan’s father, Andre Zachary, filed a lawsuit against Daniel Penny that "demands judgment awarding damages in a sum which exceeds the jurisdictional limits of all lower Courts which would otherwise have jurisdiction."



Now, I was incensed. Where the heck was Zachary all these years? What did he do for his son who had to witness an abusive relationship? Where was he when his son was shipped off to the foster care system? Where was he all those years his son was in the system — did he visit even once? Where was he when his son got out? Where the heck was he when his son was dealing with his demons all by himself and drifting in and out of homelessness?

And now he shows up when his son is cold and buried? To be clear, he didn’t show up for Jordan. He showed up for himself. Andre Zachary was never a father in any meaningful way and does not deserve that precious title.
Georgia Drivers Will Be Ticked Off About This Upcoming Policy Change






This angers me in ways that most people wouldn’t understand. I minister and work on the South Side of Chicago and I understand more than most how detrimental the absentee father has been to our community. I work with them every day. I counsel them on how God has blessed them with children and how it is their sacred responsibility to be there and raise the child. I provide these young men with pathways to opportunities. I’ve seen them leave paths of destruction to become forklift operators and construction workers. Some have even returned to college while working a full-time job.

These men are good men. They were lost but the possibility of redemption was within them and they simply needed a nudge in the right direction.

They are nothing like the lost soul that Andre Zachary still is. While I would never turn my back fully on any man, that man has never shown one ounce of fatherhood. I know there are those who will try to use race to excuse him because he is Black. But that is immoral. Almost every absentee father I deal with is Black. If I allowed that to be an excuse, then where would we be as a society?


That is why I stand here and hold Andre Zachary fully accountable for his actions. He played a role in his son’s death. That is what he needs to acknowledge if he wants to make it right with a far higher power than money: God. If he chooses this unholy pursuit of money, then we must make an example out of him.

I worked with a lot of young women who had children, but the children's father was absent in many cases. One, who I was very close to, had twin boys and by the time they were 18, one had committed a crime. The mom was a dear person who probably did a good job of raising her boys, but why wasn't the father helping out? I agree with the quote, regardless if I don't agree with the religious aspects of it. I agree that a father plays an important part in raising a child, especially a child who has experienced trauma. But, Neely's father did absolutely nothing for him, he let him struggle with drugs and homelessness, after living in foster care. Foster care, is often a horrible experience for a kid. Neely's father could have and should have done more to help his son. Now, he has the nerve to ask for financial compensation due to his son's death.
 
We as a society have failed our mentally ill and we can at least partially blame the Reagan administration for supporting the closure of so many hospitals for the extremely mentally ill.
Reagan has been dead for 20 years and out of office for almost 35 years!!
Yup... that is called a "legacy".

So it can't be fixed?
Yes, it is within the physical realm of possibility to fix.

No, it will cost too much money and people who said they cared about mental health and wellness won't want to pay for it. Americans say they care, but they actually don't. Heck, we saw in 2024, women literally voted against their own abortion rights for a perceived gain in economics... while voting to support their rights to abortion. If people are willing to fuck themselves over for a few bucks, what in the world makes you think they'd be willing to part with money to help someone else?

So once it was ripped down, it was going to be near impossible to put back up. It is much easier to tear down than to build up.
 
What exactly do people think Mr. Neely's family should have done? I ask because once someone is an adult, it is pretty hard to get a mentally unstable person to agree or even adhere to treatment. Involuntary commitment is difficult to legally accomplish, let alone emotionally.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/j...ignore-americas-fatherhood-crisis/ar-AA1vBCqi

Okay, I know the guy quoted in the article is a minister and I know the interview was done on one of the Fox News stations, hopefully, just one of the local stations that is very different from the political one, but the guy makes a lot of good points. Neely's father was never there for him, not even when he was a kid, who witnessed his mother's murder.

Then I recently learned that Jordan’s father, Andre Zachary, filed a lawsuit against Daniel Penny that "demands judgment awarding damages in a sum which exceeds the jurisdictional limits of all lower Courts which would otherwise have jurisdiction."



Now, I was incensed. Where the heck was Zachary all these years? What did he do for his son who had to witness an abusive relationship? Where was he when his son was shipped off to the foster care system? Where was he all those years his son was in the system — did he visit even once? Where was he when his son got out? Where the heck was he when his son was dealing with his demons all by himself and drifting in and out of homelessness?

And now he shows up when his son is cold and buried? To be clear, he didn’t show up for Jordan. He showed up for himself. Andre Zachary was never a father in any meaningful way and does not deserve that precious title.
Georgia Drivers Will Be Ticked Off About This Upcoming Policy Change






This angers me in ways that most people wouldn’t understand. I minister and work on the South Side of Chicago and I understand more than most how detrimental the absentee father has been to our community. I work with them every day. I counsel them on how God has blessed them with children and how it is their sacred responsibility to be there and raise the child. I provide these young men with pathways to opportunities. I’ve seen them leave paths of destruction to become forklift operators and construction workers. Some have even returned to college while working a full-time job.

These men are good men. They were lost but the possibility of redemption was within them and they simply needed a nudge in the right direction.

They are nothing like the lost soul that Andre Zachary still is. While I would never turn my back fully on any man, that man has never shown one ounce of fatherhood. I know there are those who will try to use race to excuse him because he is Black. But that is immoral. Almost every absentee father I deal with is Black. If I allowed that to be an excuse, then where would we be as a society?


That is why I stand here and hold Andre Zachary fully accountable for his actions. He played a role in his son’s death. That is what he needs to acknowledge if he wants to make it right with a far higher power than money: God. If he chooses this unholy pursuit of money, then we must make an example out of him.

I worked with a lot of young women who had children, but the children's father was absent in many cases. One, who I was very close to, had twin boys and by the time they were 18, one had committed a crime. The mom was a dear person who probably did a good job of raising her boys, but why wasn't the father helping out? I agree with the quote, regardless if I don't agree with the religious aspects of it. I agree that a father plays an important part in raising a child, especially a child who has experienced trauma. But, Neely's father did absolutely nothing for him, he let him struggle with drugs and homelessness, after living in foster care. Foster care, is often a horrible experience for a kid. Neely's father could have and should have done more to help his son. Now, he has the nerve to ask for financial compensation due to his son's death.
Neely’s father was the functional equivalent of a sperm donor who is now asking for compensation for stolen property. In no proper sense of the word is he “family”. He deserves nothing.

Mr Neely had no real family. He had kin. He was an adult. What realistically could his kin have done?
 
What exactly do people think Mr. Neely's family should have done? I ask because once someone is an adult, it is pretty hard to get a mentally unstable person to agree or even adhere to treatment. Involuntary commitment is difficult to legally accomplish, let alone emotionally.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/j...ignore-americas-fatherhood-crisis/ar-AA1vBCqi

Okay, I know the guy quoted in the article is a minister and I know the interview was done on one of the Fox News stations, hopefully, just one of the local stations that is very different from the political one, but the guy makes a lot of good points. Neely's father was never there for him, not even when he was a kid, who witnessed his mother's murder.

Then I recently learned that Jordan’s father, Andre Zachary, filed a lawsuit against Daniel Penny that "demands judgment awarding damages in a sum which exceeds the jurisdictional limits of all lower Courts which would otherwise have jurisdiction."



Now, I was incensed. Where the heck was Zachary all these years? What did he do for his son who had to witness an abusive relationship? Where was he when his son was shipped off to the foster care system? Where was he all those years his son was in the system — did he visit even once? Where was he when his son got out? Where the heck was he when his son was dealing with his demons all by himself and drifting in and out of homelessness?

And now he shows up when his son is cold and buried? To be clear, he didn’t show up for Jordan. He showed up for himself. Andre Zachary was never a father in any meaningful way and does not deserve that precious title.
Georgia Drivers Will Be Ticked Off About This Upcoming Policy Change






This angers me in ways that most people wouldn’t understand. I minister and work on the South Side of Chicago and I understand more than most how detrimental the absentee father has been to our community. I work with them every day. I counsel them on how God has blessed them with children and how it is their sacred responsibility to be there and raise the child. I provide these young men with pathways to opportunities. I’ve seen them leave paths of destruction to become forklift operators and construction workers. Some have even returned to college while working a full-time job.

These men are good men. They were lost but the possibility of redemption was within them and they simply needed a nudge in the right direction.

They are nothing like the lost soul that Andre Zachary still is. While I would never turn my back fully on any man, that man has never shown one ounce of fatherhood. I know there are those who will try to use race to excuse him because he is Black. But that is immoral. Almost every absentee father I deal with is Black. If I allowed that to be an excuse, then where would we be as a society?


That is why I stand here and hold Andre Zachary fully accountable for his actions. He played a role in his son’s death. That is what he needs to acknowledge if he wants to make it right with a far higher power than money: God. If he chooses this unholy pursuit of money, then we must make an example out of him.

I worked with a lot of young women who had children, but the children's father was absent in many cases. One, who I was very close to, had twin boys and by the time they were 18, one had committed a crime. The mom was a dear person who probably did a good job of raising her boys, but why wasn't the father helping out? I agree with the quote, regardless if I don't agree with the religious aspects of it. I agree that a father plays an important part in raising a child, especially a child who has experienced trauma. But, Neely's father did absolutely nothing for him, he let him struggle with drugs and homelessness, after living in foster care. Foster care, is often a horrible experience for a kid. Neely's father could have and should have done more to help his son. Now, he has the nerve to ask for financial compensation due to his son's death.
Neely’s father was the functional equivalent of a sperm donor who is now asking for compensation for stolen property. In no proper sense of the word is he “family”. He deserves nothing.

Mr Neely had no real family. He had kin. He was an adult. What realistically could his kin have done?
I think that is pretty much the point. HIs biological family failed him. His father never tried to help him, which is why the person who made the quote said that his father was responsible for his death. We certainly don't know if a better father could have kept him from all of the awful problems he faced, but a better father could have cared for him, instead of having him go to foster care and a better father could have at least offered him food, some emotional support etc. That is why some of us aren't convinced that Penny was the real problem, as he was simply trying to protect the riders on the subway and sure he should have released the chokehold sooner, but since none of us were in the courtroom for the trial, none of us really know how we would have perceived the evidence presented by the witnesses or the defense attorney, or what verdict we would have reached. All it takes is a reasonable doubt to declare someone innocent, right? I'm sure it was a hard decision for the jury to reach a verdict.
 
I also wonder why Neely's family pretty much abandoned him,
I'm sure there are articles about Neely's family that will shed some light on it. The story will likely be familiar.
How familiar are you with mental illnesses and difficulties families have with members that suffer from mental illness?

Why is it that the families are never questioned when someone gets cancer, and they die of cancer. Where was the family? Why didn't they do more?

The Tswizzles of the world love to judge the fuck out of people they don't know who have dealt with situations they are completely ignorant about and haven't a clue on how to address or fix. It is such pretentious bullshit.

What has any of that to do with what I posted? Nothing.
 
What exactly do people think Mr. Neely's family should have done? I ask because once someone is an adult, it is pretty hard to get a mentally unstable person to agree or even adhere to treatment. Involuntary commitment is difficult to legally accomplish, let alone emotionally.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/j...ignore-americas-fatherhood-crisis/ar-AA1vBCqi

Okay, I know the guy quoted in the article is a minister and I know the interview was done on one of the Fox News stations, hopefully, just one of the local stations that is very different from the political one, but the guy makes a lot of good points. Neely's father was never there for him, not even when he was a kid, who witnessed his mother's murder.

Then I recently learned that Jordan’s father, Andre Zachary, filed a lawsuit against Daniel Penny that "demands judgment awarding damages in a sum which exceeds the jurisdictional limits of all lower Courts which would otherwise have jurisdiction."



Now, I was incensed. Where the heck was Zachary all these years? What did he do for his son who had to witness an abusive relationship? Where was he when his son was shipped off to the foster care system? Where was he all those years his son was in the system — did he visit even once? Where was he when his son got out? Where the heck was he when his son was dealing with his demons all by himself and drifting in and out of homelessness?

And now he shows up when his son is cold and buried? To be clear, he didn’t show up for Jordan. He showed up for himself. Andre Zachary was never a father in any meaningful way and does not deserve that precious title.
Georgia Drivers Will Be Ticked Off About This Upcoming Policy Change






This angers me in ways that most people wouldn’t understand. I minister and work on the South Side of Chicago and I understand more than most how detrimental the absentee father has been to our community. I work with them every day. I counsel them on how God has blessed them with children and how it is their sacred responsibility to be there and raise the child. I provide these young men with pathways to opportunities. I’ve seen them leave paths of destruction to become forklift operators and construction workers. Some have even returned to college while working a full-time job.

These men are good men. They were lost but the possibility of redemption was within them and they simply needed a nudge in the right direction.

They are nothing like the lost soul that Andre Zachary still is. While I would never turn my back fully on any man, that man has never shown one ounce of fatherhood. I know there are those who will try to use race to excuse him because he is Black. But that is immoral. Almost every absentee father I deal with is Black. If I allowed that to be an excuse, then where would we be as a society?


That is why I stand here and hold Andre Zachary fully accountable for his actions. He played a role in his son’s death. That is what he needs to acknowledge if he wants to make it right with a far higher power than money: God. If he chooses this unholy pursuit of money, then we must make an example out of him.

I worked with a lot of young women who had children, but the children's father was absent in many cases. One, who I was very close to, had twin boys and by the time they were 18, one had committed a crime. The mom was a dear person who probably did a good job of raising her boys, but why wasn't the father helping out? I agree with the quote, regardless if I don't agree with the religious aspects of it. I agree that a father plays an important part in raising a child, especially a child who has experienced trauma. But, Neely's father did absolutely nothing for him, he let him struggle with drugs and homelessness, after living in foster care. Foster care, is often a horrible experience for a kid. Neely's father could have and should have done more to help his son. Now, he has the nerve to ask for financial compensation due to his son's death.
Neely’s father was the functional equivalent of a sperm donor who is now asking for compensation for stolen property. In no proper sense of the word is he “family”. He deserves nothing.

Mr Neely had no real family. He had kin. He was an adult. What realistically could his kin have done?
I think that is pretty much the point. HIs biological family failed him. His father never tried to help him, which is why the person who made the quote said that his father was responsible for his death. We certainly don't know if a better father could have kept him from all of the awful problems he faced, but a better father could have cared for him, instead of having him go to foster care and a better father could have at least offered him food, some emotional support etc. That is why some of us aren't convinced that Penny was the real problem, as he was simply trying to protect the riders on the subway and sure he should have released the chokehold sooner, but since none of us were in the courtroom for the trial, none of us really know how we would have perceived the evidence presented by the witnesses or the defense attorney, or what verdict we would have reached. All it takes is a reasonable doubt to declare someone innocent, right? I'm sure it was a hard decision for the jury to reach a verdict.
If Penny had tried to de-escalate the situation, I’d have some sympathy for his situation. I didn’t hear and see all the evidence, so I assume the jury did their diligence.

But Penny is no hero in my view.
 
I also wonder why Neely's family pretty much abandoned him,
I'm sure there are articles about Neely's family that will shed some light on it. The story will likely be familiar.
How familiar are you with mental illnesses and difficulties families have with members that suffer from mental illness?

Why is it that the families are never questioned when someone gets cancer, and they die of cancer. Where was the family? Why didn't they do more?

The Tswizzles of the world love to judge the fuck out of people they don't know who have dealt with situations they are completely ignorant about and haven't a clue on how to address or fix. It is such pretentious bullshit.

What has any of that to do with what I posted? Nothing.
I know, right? I read his response and genuinely thought he mistakenly responded to the wrong person.
 
Neely’s father was the functional equivalent of a sperm donor who is now asking for compensation for stolen property. In no proper sense of the word is he “family”. He deserves nothing.

Mr Neely had no real family. He had kin. He was an adult. What realistically could his kin have done?
I think that is pretty much the point. HIs biological family failed him. His father never tried to help him, which is why the person who made the quote said that his father was responsible for his death. We certainly don't know if a better father could have kept him from all of the awful problems he faced, but a better father could have cared for him, instead of having him go to foster care and a better father could have at least offered him food, some emotional support etc. That is why some of us aren't convinced that Penny was the real problem, as he was simply trying to protect the riders on the subway and sure he should have released the chokehold sooner, but since none of us were in the courtroom for the trial, none of us really know how we would have perceived the evidence presented by the witnesses or the defense attorney, or what verdict we would have reached. All it takes is a reasonable doubt to declare someone innocent, right? I'm sure it was a hard decision for the jury to reach a verdict.
The trouble here is that the chokehold is not the only possible way to subdue someone. Once enough control can be established, subduing a person can be modified into a less dangerous way. When combined with the fact that there was no battery by the person who died, it sets us up for a conclusion that people are okay with the mentally ill being killed because they are afraid of them.

Again, I don't think the aggressor should serve time in prison. He doesn't appear to be a threat to society. But his actions may have been well intended, they were negligently applied.
 
Was his only ability of restraining the guy a chokehold?
What do you suggest when a violent subway rider starts causing trouble for the peaceful and civil riders? Why didn't the people who know Neely provide enough information for Penny to deal with the problem in a better way?

Have you ever had to deal with a crazy person who poses a threat to the folks around you, without knowing anything about the threat?
Tom
In other news, I know how to knock someone out without injuring them significantly.

I think that anyone who has some inborn desire to help those around them has a duty to learn how to do that effectively, gently, and with "grace"*.

This requires a large deal of education and training and care and consideration. It requires lifelong discipline in understanding what measures society deputizes each other to in the public service, and being minimal in their application in full knowledge that this is an act of challenge to a fight that they may lose and that they are not the only party of consideration.

If someone cannot meet those standards, they ought not step forward.


*"Grace" here is with respect to treating the perpetrator of some act with as much kindness that they have not earned as they may be afforded.
 
I also wonder why Neely's family pretty much abandoned him,
I'm sure there are articles about Neely's family that will shed some light on it. The story will likely be familiar.
How familiar are you with mental illnesses and difficulties families have with members that suffer from mental illness?

Why is it that the families are never questioned when someone gets cancer, and they die of cancer. Where was the family? Why didn't they do more?

The Tswizzles of the world love to judge the fuck out of people they don't know who have dealt with situations they are completely ignorant about and haven't a clue on how to address or fix. It is such pretentious bullshit.

What has any of that to do with what I posted? Nothing.
I know, right? I read his response and genuinely thought he mistakenly responded to the wrong person.
Wow... that explains a lot!
 
If Penny had tried to de-escalate the situation, I’d have some sympathy for his situation.

The trouble here is that the chokehold is not the only possible way to subdue someone. Once enough control can be established

I think that anyone who has some inborn desire to help those around them has a duty to learn how to do that effectively, gently, and with "grace"*.

If someone cannot meet those standards, they ought not step forward.
This is all bullshit!

Monday morning quarterbacks.
Penny put his own life in danger trying to protect a bunch of strangers from a violently deranged criminal. That makes him a hero in my estimation.

You know who else probably agrees with me? Neely's other victims, like the old lady he punched so hard she needed reconstructive surgery on her face. That's just one we know about, who knows how many others there are where Neely didn't get caught and convicted.

And frankly, Penny had no way to know whether Neely had a weapon or not. Neely could have killed Penny. But Penny did the best he could under the circumstances, at great risk to himself, to benefit strangers on the subway car.

Yeah, that makes him a hero.
Tom
 
I wouldn't call him a hero. He was a cop operating in difficult and unknown circumstances. By "unknown" I mean that he didn't know what the perp would do or was capable of doing to anyone around him.

If Penny hadn't done anything and someone got hurt, his job could've been terminated and the department sued for negligence. Assuming Penny is an actual person and not some symbol of broad brush painting, what would he have felt if Neely had again violently attacked someone when Penny had the ability to prevent it?

As for blaming Neely's dad, whatever. There's a brutally honest conversation that needs to be had on this issue, but I'm not touching it.
 

"Going to school for architecture​

After leaving the Marines, Penny took time to travel and then applied to colleges, his mother, Gina, said on the stand. He was 24 years old at the time of the incident.

His mother said he was pursuing a degree in architecture from the New York City College of Technology and planned to later transfer. He was living at an apartment in the East Village, teaching swim lessons at a gym and working at a restaurant in Brooklyn."

From a recent news article.

He was a cop operating in difficult and unknown circumstances. By "unknown" I mean that he didn't know what the perp would do or was capable of doing to anyone around him.

If Penny hadn't done anything and someone got hurt, his job could've been terminated and the department sued for negligence.

Yeah, so far my opinion remains: Penny is a hero.
Tom
 
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