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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Have an Open category and a non-androgenised category. The non-androgenised category being 99.95% confirmed female at birth.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Putting Testosterone in capitals is not, in itself, an argument. Who knew?
  3. S

    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Well, and I don’t want to be unkind, you’re talking shite. We necessarily segregate most sports by sex due to the physiological advantages that male bodies have over females. And trans women, whilst they should be respected and protected from harm and discrimination, are biologically male...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    "Male" and "female" are very relevant and obvious classifications when it comes to sport. Male physiology confers such an advantage that we need to separate most sports by sex. That allows us to celebrate and reward excellences on both sexes. Segregating sport by self-identified gender is...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    You appear to be confused and upset by the use of the term "males". This does not suggest you have a coherent understanding of the issues in hand, your confident claims about what you have outlined or established notwithstanding.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Males have physiological advantages over females in most sports, largely due to development in puberty due to testosterone. That is not an argument "from tradition". It is an argument from obvious, demonstrable reality.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Puberty suppression to treat dysphoria is still an experimental treatment. The use has increased dramatically over the last 10 years but there is little follow up data. A number of countries who enthusiastically pushed the treatment are now reviewing, pausing or reigning back the route to...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    It's not an argument based on tradition. It's an argument based on objective reality that, hard won, has existed for long enough to be considered a "tradition" by those a little hard of thinking.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    There are very, very good reasons for segregating most sports by biological sex. There are few good reasons for segregating sport by self-identified gender, and obvious reasons why that's a very bad idea.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    There is very little evidence of the long term effects of puberty suppression in adolescence, as those that pioneered the treatment acknowledge. As to the medium term benefits the evidence is also weak. But again, that’s a separate consideration to the participation of males who identify as...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    I only offered it as a hypothetical. Post-pubertal treatment does not currently negate male physiological advantage. And puberty blockers to treat dysphoria is currently an experimental and potentially harmful treatment. Also, focusing on the hypotheticals around hormone treatment for...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    However, if there was a transitioning process that removed male physiological advantage, pre or post puberty, then the unfairness objection would not apply. But the evidence is that post puberty hormone treatment doesn’t negate male physiological advantages, and there’s very little evidence on...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    So my problem is bringing up a material objective fact? My bad. How very dare I. However, there is the live issue of biological males, with the advantages of androgenised development, performing in female sports. Which is manifestly and obviously unfair.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Your coherence isn’t improving. Anyhoo, most sports are segregated by sex due to the unfair advantages conferred by male physiology, largely but not exclusively due to the effects of testosterone during puberty. There are some very rare DSD/VSD conditions where there can be some ambiguity as...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    That’s not all that coherent. Maybe try again?
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    The difficulty lies in certain very rare DSD conditions, and even then people affected are either male or female. That is an entirely separate issue to trans identity. As I suggested before, a fair solution would be to reclassify sport into an Open category, and a non-androgenised category that...
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Well, the more often biological males perform in female sports and demonstrate the obvious unfairness, maybe more people will notice out how ridiculous it is.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    Well, “the hormones one has been affected by” maps to “male/female”, “ man/woman”, “penis/vagina”, 99.95% of the time. And the very rare occasions where the distinction isn’t clear has nothing at all to do with being trans.
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    Penn teammate speaks out against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

    A solution might be to keep two categories, the first being Open (subject to doping regulations), and the second being non-androgenised, which 99.95% of the time is unequivocally female.
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    Biden begins erasing girls on day one: transgender executive order

    Discrimination on the basis of sex isn't always bad. We allow discrimination on the basis of sex to allow things such as female only sports. That is rooted in basic physiology that gives males a huge advantage due to puberty. Given the known advantages of male physiology, the presumption...
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