3 myths about capitalism

[Zeluvia]

Business has to be regulated to protect the commons, competition, and consumers. It seems he agrees with only one of the three.

 

[Duke Leto]

Duke: The first video has as much B.S. as the second.

The first video treated our economy completely without regard for the environment. A healthy or sustainable economy must be planned and consented to by something close to social consensus. It cannot rely on lies to sustain itself. Capitalism short circuits democracy and puts decision making power in increasingly fewer and fewer hands. It has the inputs of fewer and fewer people. It stifles actual creativity. Capitalism actually in practice becomes simply a system of social bifurcation. The results are not pretty.

I don't dispute this arkirk, I was simply going for the quick and dirty low hanging fruit in my post.

 

[boneyard bill]

Regulations were described as interfering with the normal flow of development. Believe me, it is just BS. Looks like wuf and I have parted company. You cannot deal with the economy without dealing with the environment in which you expect that economy to operate. If it has deleterious effects on the environment or on people the capitalists have little regard for, it becomes a risky proposition. Capitalists like taking risks for society and when they don't pan out, they move on and society has to live with their risky behavior. Our environment and indeed our persons are being infiltrated with profit making chemicals many of which are inimical to human life. You have to understand the human economy has to understand it must be considered as a sub system in a wider geophysical system.

Now that took longer to write than the video did to watch and barely scratched the surface.. I must admit a certain contempt for stuffed shirt talking heads in conservative videos about the economy. Uncle Miltie was equally bad.

It isn't a handful of capitalists who decide to despoil the environment. Consumers play a big part in that decision. Start an environmentally pure company that offers products at a higher cost than your competitors and see how many of them you sell. The public isn't willing to pay for environmental protection.

However, you do have a right to sue in court if a business takes actions which cause damage to your property or your person. That wasn't the case in much of the 19th Century because common law on that subject was overturned by legislatures and/or court decisions. That was a matter of political influence. But don't blame the model (in this case free market theory) for policies that it did not create and did not advocate. In fact, our individual right to sue in such circumstances has, I believe, only partially been restored. One of the reasons for this, apparently, is that large corporations prefer regulation (which they can hope to control) over the obligation to abide by property rights.

 

[boneyard bill]

Hoover certainly didn't intervene aggressively. I would be interested to see your numbers on this assertion. Hoover ran some high budget deficits but the primary reason for this was the drop in tax revenue, not some planned stimulus by increasing government spending. Going into the depression the federal government's budget was only about 3 to 4% of GDP. A large budget deficit still would only be drop in the bucket compared to drop in GDP.

From Wikipedia:

Although Democrats at the time and for decades afterwards denounced Hoover for taking a hands-off ("laissez-faire") approach to the Depression,[99] historians emphasize how active he actually was. Hoover said he rejected Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon's suggested "leave-it-alone" approach,[100] and called many business leaders to Washington to urge them not to lay off workers or cut wages.[101]

Libertarian economist Murray Rothbard argues that Hoover was actually the initiator of what came to be the New Deal. Hoover engaged in many unprecedented public works programs, including an increase in the Federal Buildings program of over $400 million and the establishment of the Division of Public Construction to spur public works planning. Hoover himself granted more subsidies to ship construction through the Federal Shipping Board and asked for a further $175 million appropriation for public works; this was followed in July 1930 with the expenditure of a giant $915 million public works program, including a Hoover Dam on the Colorado River.[102][103] In the spring of 1930, Hoover acquired from Congress an added $100 million to continue the Federal Farm Board lending and purchasing policies. At the end of 1929, the FFB established a national wool cooperative-the National Wool Marketing Corporation (NWMC) made up of 30 state associations. The Board also established an allied National Wool Credit Corporation to handle finances. A total of $31.5 million in loans for wool were made by the FFB, of which $12.5 million were permanently lost; these massive agricultural subsidies were a precedent for the later Agricultural Adjustment Act.[104][105] Hoover also advocated strong labor regulation law, including the enactment of the Bacon-Davis Act, requiring a maximum eight-hour day on construction of public buildings and the payment of at least the "prevailing wage" in the locality, as well as the Norris-LaGuardia Act in 1932. In the Banking sector, Hoover passed The Federal Home Loan Bank Act on July, 1932, establishing 12 district banks ruled by a Federal Home Loan Bank Board in a manner similar to the Federal Reserve System. $125 million capital was subscribed by the Treasury and this was subsequently shifted to the RFC. Hoover was also instrumental in passing the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932, allowing for prime rediscounting at the Federal Reserve, allowing further inflation of credit and bank reserves.[106]

To pay for these and other government programs and to make up for revenue lost due to the Depression, in addition to the Revenue Act of 1932 Hoover agreed to roll back several tax cuts that his Administration had enacted on upper incomes. The estate tax was doubled and corporate taxes were raised by almost 15%. Also, a "check tax" was included that placed a 2-cent tax (over 30 cents in today's economy) on all bank checks. Economists William D. Lastrapes and George Selgin,[117] conclude that the check tax was "an important contributing factor to that period's severe monetary contraction". Hoover also encouraged Congress to investigate the New York Stock Exchange, and this pressure resulted in various reforms.

For this reason, years later[when?] libertarians argued that Hoover's economics were statist. Franklin D. Roosevelt blasted the Republican incumbent for spending and taxing too much, increasing national debt, raising tariffs and blocking trade, as well as placing millions on the government dole. Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible".[118] Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".[119]

Even so, New Dealer Rexford Tugwell[120] later remarked that although no one would say so at the time, "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover

 

[arkirk]

Sure, and George W. Bush left coded messages for Obama to do the ACA

Every administration accepts advisements from all quarters. It is what they do with them that counts, not that they have some plan on file. The New Deal was a plan he didn't implement. Hoover was an elitist and very out of touch with the needs of the society he led.

 

[boneyard bill]

Every administration accepts advisements from all quarters. It is what they do with them that counts, not that they have some plan on file. The New Deal was a plan he didn't implement. Hoover was an elitist and very out of touch with the needs of the society he led.

Hoover was an elitist but FDR, a Wall Street lawyer born to great wealth, was not? Hoover was born a common man who made his own money, and rose to national prominence by supervising the relief of starving Belgians. FDR won a seat in the State Senate because of his last name, and became a national figure when he won a VP spot on the national Democratic ticket for the same reason.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Hoover was an elitist but FDR, a Wall Street lawyer born to great wealth, was not? Hoover was born a common man who made his own money, and rose to national prominence by supervising the relief of starving Belgians. FDR won a seat in the State Senate because of his last name, and became a national figure when he won a VP spot on the national Democratic ticket for the same reason.

FDR made it a point to talk to a great number of common people. He was able to see the world through their eyes and bind himself to their cause. This was at the base of his charisma.
Hoover had his strengths, he just couldn't connect with the common person.

 

[boneyard bill]

FDR made it a point to talk to a great number of common people. He was able to see the world through their eyes and bind himself to their cause. This was at the base of his charisma.
Hoover had his strengths, he just couldn't connect with the common person.

I'm not sure from what I have heard of Hoover. He projected great sincerity. However, there is little doubt that FDR was the master of radio, and that was the medium of the day.

I'm so old that I actually remember Herbert Hoover. He lived to a ripe old age, and I remember him addressing the Republican convention in 1956 and I think again in 1960. I think he was still alive in '64, but I didn't see that convention. He certainly wasn't very charismatic then, but that's because he was old a frail and could barely read his text.

 

[arkirk]

Roosevelt was a better politician than Hoover. He knew how to keep himself in the best light with the American people. I have never considered him a great savior of the American people, any more than Lyndon Johnson. While it is true that legislation occurred during his administration that was beneficial to the American Public, we really undercut all the effort that came from the diverse parties working on the problem of the depression. Just as Lyndon Johnson was not the architect of the civil rights act, Roosevelt was pushed along by advocates for the people and about half of the big business community. It is right to commend him for signing and implementing new deal legislation, but not right to credit him for its creation. There were powerful political movements at work in the country that actually demanded the legislation be passed and enforced. Today, our public is dumbed down by politically lopsided and consolidated media. Ignorance is rampant in our country and that ignorance is dictated by our petro chamber of commerce.

 

[Playball40]

Nonsense. If every company had to do it there wouldn't be a price variation. In addition, how has private citizens suing for dirty water (among other things) worked out for those against the natural gas companies? Not too well. Plus, you can't sue for air and ocean pollution, can you?

 

[boneyard bill]

Roosevelt was a better politician than Hoover. He knew how to keep himself in the best light with the American people. I have never considered him a great savior of the American people, any more than Lyndon Johnson. While it is true that legislation occurred during his administration that was beneficial to the American Public, we really undercut all the effort that came from the diverse parties working on the problem of the depression. Just as Lyndon Johnson was not the architect of the civil rights act, Roosevelt was pushed along by advocates for the people and about half of the big business community. It is right to commend him for signing and implementing new deal legislation, but not right to credit him for its creation. There were powerful political movements at work in the country that actually demanded the legislation be passed and enforced. Today, our public is dumbed down by politically lopsided and consolidated media. Ignorance is rampant in our country and that ignorance is dictated by our petro chamber of commerce.

Yes, FDR was the better politician. That's probably because Hoover thought he understood economics whereas Roosevelt knew that he didn't. Roosevelt saw his job the way most politicians see their jobs, which is to reconcile various interests which might otherwise conflict. Hoover had no political experience. The only election he ever won was in 1928 when he won the presidency. He saw running the government as a matter of expertise, not as a matter of reconciling interests.