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6 Californias and why no matter how good an idea it will never happen

ex-idaho

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So this one Silicon Valley billionaire is trying to get a ballot initiative on the CA ballot in November to split CA into six separate states. Regardless of the merit of his plan there are several reasons why it will never happen.

1. Unconstitutional. States can't self divide, congress would have to approve

2. Congressional approval. Congress would never approve CA splitting up because that would mean CA would go from having just 2 senators to having 12, most of them Democratic. A Republican help House would never permit it.

3. Flood gates. Even if CA got approval to split up it would open the flood gates with partisans to balance the scales in the Senate. That would mean splitting up Texas, Georgia and probably Florida. New York and Pennsylvania would probably get in on it as well. Before you know it the Senate would jump from 100 to well over double that.
 
Silicon Valley’s Plan to Split California Into 6 States Just Might Succeed | Business | WIRED
There’s a plan to split California into 6 states. Here’s what it might look like. - The Washington Post

[table="class:grid"]
[tr][th]State[/th][th]Capital[/th][th]Population[/th][th]Area[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jefferson[/td][td]Ukiah[/td][td]949,000[/td][td]40,713 sq. mi.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]N. California[/td][td]Sacramento[/td][td]3,742,000[/td][td]12,608 sq. mi.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Central California[/td][td]Fresno[/td][td]4,125,000[/td][td]45,962 sq. mi.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Silicon Valley[/td][td]San Francisco[/td][td]6,597,000[/td][td]8,402 sq. mi.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]W. California[/td][td]Los Angeles[/td][td]11,534,000[/td][td]11,948 sq. mi.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S. California[/td][td]San Diego[/td][td]10,505,000[/td][td]36,439 sq. mi.[/td][/tr]
[/table]
The capitals are guesses by the author of the Washington Post article.

This seems gerrymandered. I think that Jefferson, North California, and Central California ought to be merged. I also agree with the WP article that the states need more creative names, like San Andreas for West California.

Politics? N CA, SV, and W CA would be reliably Democratic, while Jeff, Cen CA, and S CA would be toss-ups.

Givers and takers of tax money? SV is currently a big giver and Jeff and Cen CA big takers.

Likewise, SV would be the richest and Jeff and Cen CA the poorest.
 
I somehow do not think that merging Jefferson, North, and Central would be as workable as it seems.

Jefferson would be basically "South Oregon". Central includes much of California's farmland. They are distinct cultures. Kern County, part of Central, is jokingly referred to here in California as "Texas".

South California, since it includes San Diego and Orange but excludes Los Angeles would be fairly Republican.

Of course, my anal-retentive desire for symmetry would have "Central" renamed to "East" but that's just me.
 

]
Tim-Drapers-California-900px.png



Here's a map with some witty sarcastic comments.
 
I don't think it will ever happen but I don't see it as necessarily a bad idea. That said it has always bothered me that so much of the country is ruled by micro states. The two largest states (California and Texas) have 65 million total. The two smallest Wyoming and Vermont have about 1 million. Both have 4 Senators each.

In 1/2 the legislative branch each person of the two smallest states has 65 times more political power than the two largest. And from a concept of the Senate representing geographic communities of interest it is clear California and Texas, and perhaps Florida ought to be broken up and the NE micro states merged.

Rhode Island? Delaware? Hell, they are smaller than the counties of many states - thumbnail "States" of disproportionate power. New York? Might as well make NYC a state and let the rest of the State run itself.
 
N California has been talking about breaking away for decades. It's a very different culture up there. I don't see why Jefferson and N. Cal wouldn't be able to be the same state - there are differences, but they're not that strong.

Central California is different. They're just a bit small to make it on their own, as are silicon valley. A city state isn't a good idea, and the central/silicon city sprawl isn't much of a step up. They rely so heavily on the areas around them, making them a separate state could be a problem. Also, while it makes geographical and business sense for Silicon Valley to get SanFrancisco, you can't really pry the city away from it's Bay Area hinterland, and culturally it isn't a particularly good match. Without it, Silicon Valley doesn't work so well as a unit.

One of the virtues of a break up is to make the place more democratic. At present you have 20% of the population and even more of the US economy controlled and represented by two senators and the representatives of the cities of Los Angeles and San Diego.
 
Agreed in general. Under the communities of interest theory I would merge SF South to Monterey and Salinas.
 
I don't think it will ever happen but I don't see it as necessarily a bad idea. That said it has always bothered me that so much of the country is ruled by micro states. The two largest states (California and Texas) have 65 million total. The two smallest Wyoming and Vermont have about 1 million. Both have 4 Senators each.

In 1/2 the legislative branch each person of the two smallest states has 65 times more political power than the two largest. And from a concept of the Senate representing geographic communities of interest it is clear California and Texas, and perhaps Florida ought to be broken up and the NE micro states merged.

Rhode Island? Delaware? Hell, they are smaller than the counties of many states - thumbnail "States" of disproportionate power. New York? Might as well make NYC a state and let the rest of the State run itself.

I disagree. The House of Representatives gives the balance you strive for, the Senate exists to check the power of the large states. The disproportionate power of Rhode Island in the senate is checked by the disproportionate power of California in the House.
 
Isn't it kind of a moot point due to next Thursday's earthquake knocking the whole place into the sea?
 
I don't think it will ever happen but I don't see it as necessarily a bad idea. That said it has always bothered me that so much of the country is ruled by micro states. The two largest states (California and Texas) have 65 million total. The two smallest Wyoming and Vermont have about 1 million. Both have 4 Senators each.

In 1/2 the legislative branch each person of the two smallest states has 65 times more political power than the two largest. And from a concept of the Senate representing geographic communities of interest it is clear California and Texas, and perhaps Florida ought to be broken up and the NE micro states merged.

Rhode Island? Delaware? Hell, they are smaller than the counties of many states - thumbnail "States" of disproportionate power. New York? Might as well make NYC a state and let the rest of the State run itself.

I disagree. The House of Representatives gives the balance you strive for, the Senate exists to check the power of the large states. The disproportionate power of Rhode Island in the senate is checked by the disproportionate power of California in the House.

If you mean Rhode Island's 1 million have as much power to check California's 38 (plus) million via the Senate, you are correct. But "checking" equality is not itself a meaningful concept, it prompts the deeper question is WHY should such power be given to a thumbnail over 38 million. Should not California have 38 Senators and Rhode Island 1?

Mind you, I am not advocating a population based representation in both houses, but I doubt there was a 38 to 1 disparity in population between the 13 colonies either.

The only modern and justifiable differences in proportional representation in the Senate is in giving powers to communities of interest AND practical administrative reach. California and New York (and two or three areas of Texas) should be divided into those communities and county sized states like Delaware should be merged with an adjacent state. And we ought to think about New Hampshire and Vermont as one state, and merge Rhode Island with one of its adjacent state's.



I'll put this on my list when I become a demigod, a promotion still pending. :)
 
Alternatively perhaps this "compromise" should be imposed...

Any State of less than 2.9 million gets one Senator
Any State between 2.9 and 6 million gets two Senators
Any State between 6 million an 38 million gets three Senators.

Any State with less population than the District of Columbia (Vermont and Wyoming) get ZERO Senators.

That will roughly divide the States into 1/3rds in population ranking (absent Vermont and Wyoming).

LOL those on the cusp will do their best to get more folks.
 
That's because our system is designed to NOT work, and that is a good thing.

If I had my way, I'd restore the older arrangement of the senators being chosen by the state legislatures so that they would represent the state governments.
 
On that I would agree. States, as States, were supposed to have separate representation. Programs like Obamacare would have been far less divisive had States had a say from the outset. That said, I'd make government beholden to to taxpayer consumer choice, just as exists in a free and voluntary society. I would use a system somewhat like the Swiss canton, allowing voters in every county to belong to whatever adjacent state they wished (assuming they are wanted by that state) or to form their own State (with certain requirements for size and population). I would do the same for cities and counties.

If local and state governments had to compete for their producers and makers, their captive taxpayers, you would see a whole new attitude towards their individual constituents. In other words, the leeches would have to prove that they "built that" and they offer more than other competing leeches.
 
Break up the states! The case for the United Statelets of America - Salon.com by Michael Lind.
After noting the proposal in this thread's OP to divide California up into 6 states, he proposes that that does not go far enough.
America’s state governments are too big to be democratic and too small to be efficient. Given an adequate tax base, public services like public schools and hospitals, utilities and first responders are best carried out by cities and counties. Most infrastructure is either local or regional or national. Civil rights, including workers’ rights, should be handled at the federal level, to eliminate local pockets of tyranny and exploitation. Social insurance systems are most efficient and equitable when they are purely national, like Social Security and Medicare, and inefficient and inequitable when they are clumsily divided among the federal government and the states, like unemployment insurance, Medicaid and Obamacare.

So what are state governments particularly good at? Nothing, really. They interfere in local government, cripple the federal government, shake down lobbyists and waste taxpayer money.

Few if any state borders correspond to the boundaries of actual social communities with a sense of shared identity. A look at county-level voting maps shows that, in terms of politics, rural Americans everywhere generally have more in common with their fellow hinterlanders than with their urban fellow citizens in their own states — and vice versa. Arbitrary state boundaries merely insure that state legislatures will be the scenes of endless battles between country mice and city mice, resulting in stalemates that don’t serve the interests or reflect the values of either mouse species.
Colin Woodard has a nice cultural history of the US, American Nations, complete with a map of the US cultural nations. They don't follow state boundaries very well.

Breaking up states, merging states, and transferring territories between states are all entirely feasible, but the US Constitution specifies that these operations require the agreement of Congress and the governments of the affected states. That may be hard to do if it means more blue states or more red states. The proposed California split, into Jefferson, North California, Silicon Valley, Central California, West California, and South California, would produce three blue states and three purple ones. Splitting Texas would create several red states and perhaps some purple ones. Etc.

Splitting up the larger states would help resolve a problem with the US Senate. According to political scientists Frances E. Lee of Case Western Reserve University and Bruce I. Oppenheimer of Vanderbilt, it is the world's most malapportioned upper house (Senatorial Privilege), and thus one of the least democratic ones. Two Senators per state was included in the US Constitution to get smaller states' delegations to support it. At that time, the most populous state, Virginia, had 11 times the population of the least populous state, Delaware. Nowadays, the most and the least are California and Wyoming, with a ratio of 60, and likely 70 in 2025.

At this point, to the tune of “Yankee Doodle” on a fife and drum, somebody in the peanut gallery will object that our system represents the “genius of the Founding Fathers.” Sorry, peanut gallery patriots — the major Founders hated the overrepresentation of small states in the Senate. For most of their political careers, Alexander Hamilton favored more centralization, while the “Father of the Constitution,” James Madison (except early in his career), was for states’ rights. But these two co-authors of the Federalist Papers agreed that states should be represented in the Senate on the basis of population and that the compromise in the Constitution that gave each state two senators, no matter its size, was a mistake.

75 Stars | Mother Jones by Michael Lind, discussing how small-population, largely-rural states have often thwarted the wills of the voters of states with big cities. This is because of their Senate representation.

There also, ML proposes breaking up the more populous states. That article has cutesy names for the possible states:
  • California: Vineland, Marin, Siliconia, Reagan, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego
  • Texas: Petroland, Texahoma, Alamo, North Mexico, Tejas
  • Michigan: Ford, Michigan
  • Ohio: Rockland, Hayes, Ohio
  • Illinois: Jordan, Greater Chicago, Illinois
  • New Jersey: North Jersey, South Jersey
  • Pennsylvania: Philadelphia, Franklin, Pennsylvania
  • New York: Long Island, New York, Hudson, East Ontario
  • Florida: Epcot, Okefenokee, Geritolina, New Cuba
 
This proposal reminds me of a door to door sales pitch I've had to turn down a couple times in the past year. They're trying to get people to switch to their phone/tv/internet service and will only be in the area a short time. After explaining how much faster and better their service is, they ask "so when can I schedule a tech to come out and get started?"

They skip over the part where they ask if you actually want the service, and assume the sale is already a done deal.

The same thing appears to be happening here. "Well hey everyone agrees breaking up California is a great idea...when do we get started?"

Excuse me? Who decided this was a great idea that everyone agrees upon?
 
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