A disturbing exchange with a police officer

[ksen]

I was reading this article in The Atlantic and the following exchange with a police officer was posted:

FB poster Clint Nelissen is exactly correct. This is not Iraq.

Jake Rouse's attitude, if it's pervasive among police officers, is chilling.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do we know his identity as an officer isn't a spoof?

 

[ksen]

It could be I guess but I have no reason to think it is.

 

[Mindlab Expositor]

Jake Rouse's use of the word eliminate is worth considering.

If eliminate means to kill, then I am concerned. If it means to dissolve the situation, that would seem to be relatively benign.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Jake Rouse's use of the word eliminate is worth considering.

If eliminate means to kill, then I am concerned. If it means to dissolve the situation, that would seem to be relatively benign.

Well, if you read the term in the clear context of his entire statement, it is obvious that he means shoot.

 

[Mindlab Expositor]

Well, if you read the term in the clear context of his entire statement, it is obvious that he means shoot.

I know. You are probably correct. Just trying to be precise here.

 

[braces_for_impact]

This is exactly the attitude that is part of the problem. Us & Them. Militarizing the police only serves to reinforce this attitude and make them more efficient at "eliminating" threats. Anecdote alert: I knew I guy that worked for police. One of the SWAT snipers one day dropped a civilian that was causing trouble. He found out that day that it was tradition for officers to call any officer involved in shooting a suspect and congratulate them. I think this sort of problem is systemic.

 

[Togo]

Jake Rouse's use of the word eliminate is worth considering.

If eliminate means to kill, then I am concerned. If it means to dissolve the situation, that would seem to be relatively benign.

No, it wouldn't. He's already explicitly ruled out talking someone down, so 'eliminate the threat' refers to use of force against someone who's only crime is to be in a situation where they could hurt the police officer. And the references to Iraq make it pretty clear he's referring to killing people.

I knew a consultant who did a study for the Metropolitan police and LA PD, on how to improve their public image (improve public confidence). His key finding was that public perceptions of the police force were noticeably more accurate than those of the police themselves. This was not well received.

People who work investigating crimes all day tend to end up with a fairly bleak view of humanity

 

[ksen]

Groups Officer Rouse belongs to on his FB page:

God, Guns, Freedom and the American Way, Hank Williams Jr. for President 2012, Rodney Carrington, I BET ALABAMA CAN FIND 100,000 FANS BEFORE AU CAN!, Jim Beam, A best friend rides in ur car no matter how many times u nearly killed them, Smokerise Pool, Alabama Football, SDS Nation, Buffalo Wild Wings, Gruntworks, Support A Soldier, Jesus Loves You, Jesus, causes.com, Julio Jones, Help put Jesus back in EVERYTHING!, Western Revival, Unique Automotive, Rare, The New Resistance, ALL Lives Matter, My Time Fitness, Witts Discount Tires, Jefferson County Sheriff's Academy, Rebirth of Freedom, Alabama Football, Bentley for Governor, Country Music Nation, MRC TV, 11 Bravos, Guns & Patriots, The Tea Party, Alabama Crimson Tide on 247Sports, The Political Insider, 247Sports, Secure America Now, City of Pleasant Grove Police Department, McAnnally Tax, Hatcher Heavy Duty Services Inc., The Meta Picture, American Patriot, Waters Photography, Alabama Football Pictures, Walker County Yard Sale, Homewood Police Department, Vestavia Hills Police Department, Irondale Police Department, Cop Humor, Paula Priesse, I did NOT vote for Obama., Stop Amnesty, Rand Paul, Veterans United Network, JACK WEBB SCHOOLS OBAMA ON DEMOCRACY, Paul Ryan, Chick-fil-A, Heavenly Ribs, Mommy, Why Does Obama Help Terrorists?, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, I will NOT vote for Obama in 2012., Milo's Hamburgers, Buffalo Wild Wings, Walk with Jesus, Tarrant Police Department, Glock Forum, Hazel's Seafood Restaurant, Officer Justin Sollohub Prayer Page, The Anniston Police Department, Rolo Mcflurry's, Fighting Cock bourbon, Crimson Houndstooth, I am for Alabama's HB 56 Immigration Reform Law, CrossBreed Holsters, LLC, Southern States Police Benevolent Association, The Bluegrass Legacy, Heroic DNA, Survival Straps, FreedomWorks, Bluegrass Central, House Bill: H.R. 3153 [110th]: Death Penalty for Cop Killers Act of 2007, Walmart, Heroes, Mountain Dew, Duck Tape, James Spann, Mitt Romney, ForAmerica, Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Generation Opportunity, 2nd Amendment, Tell Congress we are a Christian Nation, Help Wildlife Impacted by the BP Oil Spill, Turn Facebook camo colored for a week to support our troops!, Veterans of Foreign Wars VFW, RightChange, Alabama Crimson Tide BCS Bowl Game Information, Proud to be an American, George W. Bush, The University of Alabama, Conservative Daily, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Being Conservative, ESPN, Nick Saban, Greg McElroy, Positively Republican!, Army National Guard, National Rifle Association, Paul "Bear" Bryant

About what I'd expect.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is vile. I am completely repulsed. Krispy Kreme?! That stuff is garbage!

 

[ksen]

Just sent this letter to a local newspaper in that area.

Good morning,

I came across an article in The Atlantic that had a rather disturbing exchange with one of your local police officers. I am forwarding you a link to the story in case there would be interest in following up about how a local officer views his job as equivalent to serving in Iraq and how it's his job to "eliminate threats."

I think it feeds in to the current story of the militarization of our police forces and how they are increasingly seeing themselves as an occupying force rather than as law enforcement officers.

Here is the link:

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/a...use-with-the-mentally-ill-are-madness/388610/

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards,
[ksen]

 

[Warpoet]

Well, at least not everyone in the Tarrant, Alabama PD is an asshole:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/12/11/police-video-goes-viral-but-not-for-the-reasons-you-might-expect/

Currently, there are about 19 officers in Tarrant, a sleepy little town located a few miles away from Birmingham, Alabama. Once the center of industry, Tarrant has seen its share of hard times recently. Clow Industries, part of the town’s steel mill heritage, shut down its facility after being acquired by McWane, Inc. Many of those in the town had ties to Clow, said Rice, who grew up in Tarrant. Today, with most of its industry gone, Tarrant is struggling. The town of just over 6,000 residents had an estimated median household income in 2012 of $26,817, a 10% decline since 2000, and nearly half of the national average of $51,371 for the same time period (downloads as a pdf).

Sounds more like a town in an economic slump than the warzone the officer in the OP wants to make it sound like.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Well, if you read the term in the clear context of his entire statement, it is obvious that he means shoot.

I know. You are probably correct. Just trying to be precise here.

What ambiguity do you find in the statement, "a kill or be killed kind of job"?

 

[Mindlab Expositor]

I know. You are probably correct. Just trying to be precise here.

What ambiguity do you find in the statement, "a kill or be killed kind of job"?

I know what you mean and I do understand the context. My comment was giving the benefit of the doubt, really. The mention of Iraq may only refer to harsh realities soldiers and cops share. I am sympathetic towards cops. Things look much different to them than they do to we who do not do what they do.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Especially in Tarrant, AL.

2012 there 0 murders, 1 rape, 8 robberies, though 217 thefts! These numbers are per 100,000 residents the true number could be lower for thefts. Iraq nothing, it is like the Islamic State there!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I know what you mean and I do understand the context. My comment was giving the benefit of the doubt, really. The mention of Iraq may only refer to harsh realities soldiers and cops share. I am sympathetic towards cops. Things look much different to them than they do to we who do not do what they do.

That's both a fair point and an invalid point.

It's true that cops deal with a different subset of the population that the rest of us do. They engage with the worst part of society when the people in that part are acting their worst. This gives them a different perspective on what can potentially happen than the rest of us have for very good and legitimate reasons.

On the other hand, the notion that the reality of being a police officer in an American town is comparable to being the member of an occupying foreign army in a place with active terrorist attacks is a terrible attitude for a police officer to have and I do not trust somebody with that attitude to be able to exercise good judgement when carrying out his duties. Somebody like this is not ever going to do anything except make any potentially bad situations that they encounter even worse.

 

[Mindlab Expositor]

I'm not going to press the issue of giving the benefit of the doubt. It may cause the conversation to go in a direction that may not be helpful for it. Besides, I confess the that the cop-mindset is probably wrong.

I re-read the OP anyway. The officer does, in fact, say "kill or be killed." I have heard more stories about this than I suppose the average citizen not heard. I just haven't understood the larger issue to be so cut and dry. Many factors are involved.

 

[Axulus]

They are more militarized and yet here is some data that Jake Rouse is apparently oblivious to:

Last year, in total, British police officers actually fired their weapons three times. The number of people fatally shot was zero. In 2012 the figure was just one. Even after adjusting for the smaller size of Britain’s population, British citizens are around 100 times less likely to be shot by a police officer than Americans. Between 2010 and 2014 the police force of one small American city, Albuquerque in New Mexico, shot and killed 23 civilians; seven times more than the number of Brits killed by all of England and Wales’s 43 forces during the same period.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/08/armed-police

 

[Mindlab Expositor]

I know what you mean and I do understand the context. My comment was giving the benefit of the doubt, really. The mention of Iraq may only refer to harsh realities soldiers and cops share. I am sympathetic towards cops. Things look much different to them than they do to we who do not do what they do.

That's both a fair point and an invalid point.

It's true that cops deal with a different subset of the population that the rest of us do. They engage with the worst part of society when the people in that part are acting their worst. This gives them a different perspective on what can potentially happen than the rest of us have for very good and legitimate reasons.

On the other hand, the notion that the reality of being a police officer in an American town is comparable to being the member of an occupying foreign army in a place with active terrorist attacks is a terrible attitude for a police officer to have and I do not trust somebody with that attitude to be able to exercise good judgement when carrying out his duties. Somebody like this is not ever going to do anything except make any potentially bad situations that they encounter even worse.

You can have it. Good points. The thrust of your argument is good.

 

[Mindlab Expositor]

...

I'm not going to try to verify all those statistics, but it is enough to magnify the problem currently on the table.