A Major Political Issue - Politicians are Liars

[rousseau]

I was thinking last night about this fact, and I think it's a lot more significant than is usually acknowledged. That is most political systems in place work in a way where those who are elected are by default really good liars. So we're electing people to the biggest stations in the world, expecting them to make some of the most important moral judgments in the history of humanity, and their only redeeming quality is the ability to deceive people..

At some point in the future the people governing nations, provinces, states .. need to be experts in governance, not election winners.

 

[dismal]

Actually the bigger problem is they don't have to be very good liars.

 

[Trausti]

I was thinking last night about this fact, and I think it's a lot more significant than is usually acknowledged. That is most political systems in place work in a way where those who are elected are by default really good liars. So we're electing people to the biggest stations in the world, expecting them to make some of the most important moral judgments in the history of humanity, and their only redeeming quality is the ability to deceive people..

At some point in the future the people governing nations, provinces, states .. need to be experts in governance, not election winners.

We elect liars because people want to believe the lie.

 

[Blahface]

We elect liars because people want to believe the lie.

I'm not sure that it is that people believe them; it is just what choice do we have? If we don't vote for a liar, we risk the other liar who is much worse getting elected. Our voting system makes us an incoherent, uncoordinated mess. It forces us to vote for one of the default candidates who is always going to be a liar.

 

[dismal]

We elect liars because people want to believe the lie.

I'm not sure that it is that people believe them; it is just what choice do we have? If we don't vote for a liar, we risk the other liar who is much worse getting elected. Our voting system makes us an incoherent, uncoordinated mess. It forces us to vote for one of the default candidates who is always going to be a liar.

No, I think he's basically got it.

If voters wanted politicians that told truth they would win in the primaries.

 

[Keith&Co.]

If voters wanted politicians that told truth they would win in the primaries.

Or, you're just partial to lies that lose in the primaries...

 

[Blahface]

Primaries don't stop vote splitting. I doubt there was any way Romney would have won in the 2012 primary if approval voting had been used. Also, in the primary there is still pressure to vote for the guy who is perceived as having the best shot at beating the opposing guy in the general (although Republicans are a little more immune to this).

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Dump first past the post. Ban political parties. Ban private financing of campaigns and make everybody use set amount of public funds to run. Work out the details so it smoothes over issues like too many people running. What would the nation look like then?

 

[funinspace]

At some point in the future the people governing nations, provinces, states .. need to be experts in governance, not election winners.

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Winston Chruchill

China has used the "experts in governance" model, and sort of works that way now. They pretty much introduced the idea of a formal educated bureaucracy ages back. For all the foibles of politicos and democratic elections, in the long run I don't think it has done that badly considering our 5 millennia of empires/nations.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Winston Chruchill

So how about trying a little more democracy of the people, and a little less corporate and financial sway on politics?

Or maybe that's a bad idea? I don't really know.

Imagine if you didn't need millions of dollars to run for president, and somebody who is not filthy rich could run. Sally the hairdresser today. Sally the president tomorrow.

 

[funinspace]

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Winston Chruchill

So how about trying a little more democracy of the people, and a little less corporate and financial sway on politics?

Or maybe that's a bad idea? I don't really know.

Imagine if you didn't need millions of dollars to run for president, and somebody who is not filthy rich could run. Sally the hairdresser today. Sally the president tomorrow.

My only point was to not destroy the bathroom, while throwing out the bath water; regarding generalized descriptions of how one can organize a state.

Yeah, lots of things in <fill in the blank country> could/should be done differently IMPOV. The guy starting this thread is from Canada, so I certainly wasn't restricting the conversation to the USA.

 

[SimpleDon]

Politicians are what we make them.

People believe the lies because they want to believe the lies. They want to be assured that they are right, that their core values, closely held beliefs and their ideology are right. They don't want to have to change. They don't want to face uncomfortable truths.

The problem isn't that politicians lie. The problem is that they have to lie.

 

[SimpleDon]

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Winston Chruchill

So how about trying a little more democracy of the people, and a little less corporate and financial sway on politics?

Or maybe that's a bad idea? I don't really know.

Imagine if you didn't need millions of dollars to run for president, and somebody who is not filthy rich could run. Sally the hairdresser today. Sally the president tomorrow.

I don't think that money in politics is necessarily a bad thing. There is some element of truth that the one who can raise the most money has the most support, especially in the primary phase. Give everyone a campaign cash credit of say 1000 dollars that they can give to any candidate to use as the candidate sees fit. These campaign credits are the only money that can be spent. If a candidate loses or drops out they can give any unused credit to any other candidate.

Make raising funds for campaigning more democratic.